Miracle Pool Products

This week on Thursdays with Wayne and Steve, the guys take aim at “miracle” pool products, suspiciously cheap equipment, expired test reagents, and the growing number of online knockoffs promising professional results at bargain-basement prices.

Wayne recalls some of the industry’s most memorable gimmicks—including magnets that supposedly made calcium disappear—and explains why words like “miracle cure” should immediately raise a red flag. Steve breaks down how he presents customers with equipment options, why an internet price is not always an apples-to-apples comparison, and what customers give up when they purchase off-brand replacement parts without professional support or a reliable warranty.

During this episode’s Insurance Interlude, Steve and Pat Grenon examine a nightmare renovation in which an unlicensed contractor allegedly left chunks of concrete inside a pool’s plumbing. They discuss the homeowner’s possible options, the limits of homeowners insurance, and why asking to be named as an additional insured may provide valuable protection before a contractor begins work.

Wayne also explains why heavily discounted test kits and reagents may not be the bargain they appear to be. Products sitting in warehouses or clearance bins can be years old, and expired reagents can produce unreliable results—even when the packaging looks perfectly legitimate.

The conversation also covers customer communication, emergency-service pricing, protecting your profit margins, commercial-pool safety failures, and why treating people well remains the most effective marketing strategy in the pool business.

Topics discussed include:

• Spotting “miracle product” scams and deceptive demonstrations
• OEM equipment versus inexpensive aftermarket replacements
• How to explain equipment pricing and warranties to customers
• Why professionals should charge more for emergency and weekend service
• Identifying expired test kits, reagents, and test strips
• The risks of buying unusually cheap chemical-testing products online
• What happens when an unlicensed contractor damages a swimming pool
• Homeowners insurance and contractor-liability claims
• Why additional-insured status matters
• Concrete and construction debris trapped inside pool plumbing
• Developing relationships with reliable leak-detection specialists
• Commercial pools with dangerously low pH and alkalinity
• Cloudy-water problems caused by filtration and operational failures
• Changes within Leslie’s and what pool professionals should watch
• Building trust through honesty, education, and customer service
• Why word-of-mouth remains the strongest form of marketing

The takeaway is simple: read the labels, check expiration dates, compare products carefully, document contractor work, and never assume that the cheapest option is actually the least expensive.

Have a pool-industry scam or questionable product you think Wayne and Steve should investigate? Email the show at talkingpools@gmail.com. If your story is featured, the team may send you a small thank-you gift.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Happy Thursday to everybody and welcome to the Talking Pools podcast. Thursdays with Steve and Wayne. Uh again, hope everybody has had a nice, safe, productive, and good week of the past few weeks. Got a couple couple important topics here to talk about today. One, I'll I'm gonna start off with one and then Steve's gonna follow me up on something completely unrelated to what I will I'll be talking about. But I was telling Steve before we decided to record today that uh I've seen on various social media outlets, uh specifically TikTok and Instagram, and I actually did see it on Facebook, this so-called magic powder that when you add it to like say a pond or an aquarium structure or even pools.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

I didn't know where you were going with that. I didn't know where you were going with that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

It magically makes the the water perfectly clear. I mean, literally, you you see an actor uh pouring in this powder, and you know, seconds later, you know, 5,000 gallons of water is perfectly clear. Now you can also tell it's it's heavily edited and it's probably AI, but uh I it kind of you know that that falls in the category to me of scams, chemical scams. And the one of the problems is that our industry is is wrought with with scams that require, you know, you all to be very diligent when you're when you're trying something new or or even switching over to a different product, it really doesn't matter. You know, do your homework, take a look at it, see what comments you have. I remember one of the first scams I ever, and I'm gonna call it a scam, the first scam that that I ever encountered when I started in the industry in '91 was magnets. You you screw this this magnet onto a pipe and it magically makes calcium disappear. I mean, it it it it it touted in all of the magazines in the industry. You know, this is the miracle thing. Anytime you see the word miracle cure, that's all that's a red flag right there. But uh so you take like it had a top clamp and a bottom clamp and you put it over the pipe. And again, it takes care of Castle Part as well. My my mentor back then, uh, when I started was Neil Lowry, somebody some some of you might know who he is, but um uh rest in peace, Neil. He's the one that told me about this scam, and he he would get so upset whenever he would see it at a trade show or or in one of the trade magazines. I mean, to the point where I really thought he was going to pick up one of the magnets in the booth and throw it across the trade show floor. I would not have put out past him. But it kind of shows that you've got to be very careful about what's coming on in the industry. I mean, for the most part, people know what they're what they're doing and and know what they're talking about. And you know, there's some really good reps out there for various uh uh products, but you gotta be really, really careful. Um I've seen it too many times at trade shows over the years where you know somebody will come in in a 10 by 10 booth and start selling this miracle product that that supposedly works, and of course it doesn't. But yeah, I just wanted to be wanted to be wary of that. And and I guess a good thing would be let's share some stories. I mean, if y'all out there listening have any stories of scams that you've encountered, unfortunately, and think it's willing to share, please send us an email. Uh drop us an email to talkingpools at gmail.com and we'll be more than happy to uh talk about it on on air, so to speak. Steven, you've got you've got some uh interesting issues to deal with.

SPEAKER_06 4:32

So yeah, I want to stick on this for a moment. And like it's really hard to tell nowadays when because I talk about going and whatever product you're gonna buy, you make sure that like you you look it up and I'm always chasing the best price, or I'm always going back to my distributor and saying, Hey, will you match this? And like I I'm not bashful about it, you know, and you you listeners out there, you shouldn't be either, because you know, I I I can't stand when and this just happened. It was like uh you know, a CMP salt cell is basically what it is, which is like, and I not that I consider it an off brand, but it's it's it's one of like the ones that I don't see as often. And my one client, he has one of them, and it started leaking by like on the like it cracked on the little cap piece, and I was like, oh, maybe we'll just change the cap piece, right? But but no, they sell the cap piece is already pre pre manufactured onto the cell, so now you need a brand new cell, so there's no way to fix it. So I went online and I was like, okay, cool, like let me find and I always give my clients the and like this is more of maybe a lesson of how to do this. Um, and everybody does stuff a little bit differently, but for for us, what I did was I looked at my price from my local distributors. That price happened to be a hundred and fifty dollars more than you could find it on the internet for, which again is fucking crazy. This is why I'm not bashful about going back to them and saying, like, uh you guys manufacture this. Like, how how could you be selling it on the internet? And I know what it is, the price went up, and you know, this this internet site, they bought 500 of them, and they're still sitting on you know 220 of them or whatever. So they're like, we want to move this shit no matter what, let's sell it for you know what the price was before. But you know, then you start going to like other websites, and you're like, hmm, you're like, this thing doesn't seem like it's OEM, you know, and then there's there's ones where it's hard to tell, and then there's ones where they say like this is like an off-brand replacement, they don't say like, hey, this is uh Pantair or CMP or or Jandy or whatever. It says like replacement cell for yada yada yada model, you know. And I always give my clients the choice because I don't want anyone, and especially like if you're not my client, then you're getting retail price. Like there's there's probably no chance that I'm not gonna, I'm not like I'm gonna make my money, like it's a one-off job. I'm sorry, like uh you gotta pay retail. Like, we don't have a relationship, you know? Now, and that's the same thing. Like, if I if you called me and I was gonna go out to your house and I was like, okay, cool, it would be a way higher price for a one-time, hey, we're just gonna come out and see what's up, troubleshooting, than it would be if my client's heater went down and we, you know, had to make a special visit to go there on a different day.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Right, makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 7:33

You know, it would just be our regularly hourly charge. And, you know, if we're just going on a one-off, especially if you're like, hey, can you make it here today or tomorrow? We're using our emergency visit rate. And if you guys are charging the same amount of money for coming on a weekday that you are on a weekend or immediately, you guys are out of your minds. Like you have to have a set hourly price that you're gonna charge. And then if somebody needs you there same day, it needs to be an emergency service visit. And we have our regular hourly price, which is X amount. Then we have our weekday emergency visit rate that we will charge you if we have to come out for an emergency on a weekday, and then we have a weekend, which is even so it's like three tiers of pricing, you know, and it just makes the most amount of sense to do that because again, like uh sometimes you got to drive two hours, sometimes it's a you know, it's a three-hour round trip or whatever it may be. And like time, you know, is money. But back to my point of what I'm saying to the clients is I I call the client and I say, Hey, your salt cells busted. And you know, the client went through the normal questions of like, hey, like I remember you guys changed this out for me when the pool first was built. And I was like, Yeah, but I'm like, Do you remember I came over to do a pool inspection for you? And I was like, yo, this thing is leaking. I'm like, go get your manufacturer, go get the guy who put this pool in and have him change this shit out under warranty. And he was like, Well, can you do it? And I'm like, Yeah, of course, but I'm gonna charge you for it. So I'm like, have this guy come out and you know, do it under warranty because it's under warranty for you, right? And almost all of the time, most people will go with that option. There has been times though, and I'm in a situation which I'll talk about in a minute, where the people were so disheartened and discouraged, and basically just fed up with the people that built their pool that there was like serious problems. And I was like, okay, like go have these people deal with it. And they were like, No, we want you to deal with it, like we'll just pay you to deal with it because we hate these people, like we don't ever want them to step back on our property, like concrete in their line, concrete in the suction lines, okay? So we'll get to that one, but let's back up salt cell. So I tell the client, hey, like I, you know, I can get you this salt cell for X amount of money, and it will come with a one-year warranty from me. I'm like, if you buy it off of the internet, I will install it for you. But if there's any warranty issues or problems, like I'm not taking care of this for you. Like, I'm not calling the website, I'm not calling the manufacturer, like fuck that. You deal with that, you know. Or there's actually an off-brand one that you could buy yourself for a quarter of the price of what it costs from me. And uh, you go ahead and you know, you just deal with it. There is no warranty, and it's probably gonna break within a year or two. So, what do you want to do? And almost always they come back and they're like, you know what, Steve, we thought about it. Like, go ahead and you install, you take care of it all. And it's really important how you frame that to your customer, because if you just come back and tell your customer, like, hey, this is $2,000, and then they look up that product on the internet, and they can they can buy it for $17.50, and they're like, Oh, this try, this guy's trying to fuck me, right? But it's it's not that we're we're trying like like that number on the internet is probably what I am buying it for. So the difference between $1750 and $2,000 after you put in tax is almost non-existent, right? So, like, don't pigeon yourself in or back yourself into a corner where you give somebody one price and like I, you know, tier it for them and say, hey, like I I already checked all this shit out on the internet for you, and I'm you know, this is what the deal is. And once in a while, you'll and I already had someone, I had a Jandy True Clear, and I was like, hey, it broke for some reason. The Drandy True Clears now at distribution are over $800. They used to be 300 something in the last, you know, because it went up in so much in cost. So I was like, look, you're my client. Like, I'm not trying to, you know, make an insane amount of money on you. I'm like, I can't sell this to you. Like, I'm buying it for $800. So I was like, I can't sell it to you for $800. So I was like, here are your options, like you can buy it for this, or you can go on the internet and you can find them cheaper. You can find an OEM one that's cheaper, or you can find one that's totally off-brand and you go with that one. And he was like, All right, cool, I'm gonna go with the off-brand one. And it was 200 bucks, and he bought one. And within like the first four or five months, like the you know, because it wasn't uh it was single polarity and not dual polarity. So the little plates on it like broke almost not almost instantly, but like we got like five months out of it. And I was like, hey, your salt cell's broken again. I'm like, what do you want me to do? And he was like, I'm just gonna go ahead and get the expensive one from you so I can get the warranty, you know. So like I've I've gone both ways with it. Now, do I want you? Am I gonna let my client go and buy a pump and I'm gonna install it? No, I'm not gonna do that. Am I gonna go and let them buy a heater and install it? Probably not usually, you know. Um, but like with something like this, where like, hey, that piece is broken, there's really no installation, just give them the option to to kind of do that. You know, I think that that's the the best way to go about it. And I've also gotten uh you know, kind of fucked on it before, but before I started doing that, because I would go to the I I've gone to clients before and I've said, hey, this is a thousand dollars, or this is eight hundred dollars, or whatever it is. And they're like, okay, cool. Well, like I found it on the internet for you know, blah, blah, blah. And you find out that it's like an off-brand one, and they're not really looking at, or the best is like, you know, with the pent air ones, they're they're sized out, right? So there's an IC40, an IC60, an IC blah, blah, blah. So, like, are you comparing apples to apples? Because, you know, some of them are made for 20,000 gallon pools, some of them are made for 40,000 gallon pools, and some of them are made for 60,000 gallon pools. So I push it back to you for a second. Like, you, you know, the company that you used to work for, it's one of the, you know, other than Lamont out there is one of the biggest in the world, right? So, was there ever something that happened where someone called you in and or called you and was like, hey, this product is bad, or or whatever it may be, and you're like, Well, okay, send it back. And they send it back, and you're like, What the fuck is this? You know what I mean? Like, because everyone, you know, and uh going on right now on the internet. I don't know if you've ever gotten the targeted ads from Rhone Honey, and it's like there are it's like the guys, this popular YouTuber uh during the World Cup was like uh doing an ad for this company. It's called Roan, and like you can put it on like bananas, it's honey, and it's got like a bunch of like electrolytes in it and like caffeine and other stuff. Like uh, so since then I just I keep getting these targeted ads for this roan stuff, and like I was like, Oh, this looks cool, but then like you go on the internet and there's so many fakes that are out there, and it's the its packaging looks the same, its labeling looks the same, it's basically the same stuff on the outside, but it's fake on the inside. So, has there ever been that and you know you don't you don't have to limit it to the you know to the test kit manufacturers, but like I feel like this stuff was probably more prominent back in the day because people didn't have the internet, yeah? And like for me to sell you an off-brand product and say, okay, oh, it's the OEM one, and I pocket an extra 400 bucks, you know, like how are you really gonna understand or know if that is secondhand or if it's you know, where now it's a little now you can like go look it up on the internet and like everybody's kind of uh you know, really well versed with it.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

It's yeah. Again, the simple answer is yeah, yes. The more involved answer is that because of the nature of the beast, we could not accept back anything chemical, reagents, things like that, unless it was our mistake. Okay, or it was within 30 days of shipping out and receipt by by the by the so okay, hold that thought for a second.

SPEAKER_06 16:17

So now I buy a test kit from my local distributor or the internet, and something is wrong with it, and it's within 30 days. Are you because like when I buy water tech pool blasters or water tech leaf demons? It says right on their product, it says, if you have a problem with the product, call call this number directly, don't bring it back to distribution. Because basically they're gonna be like, what the fuck are we gonna do with this? You know, so would I be dealing with you guys directly, or would you say, hey, go back to your distributor and figure that out? And then they come back to you on the back end and say, Hey, like we had 10 test kits that we need to return that got returned, yeah, or is it on like a case-by-case basis?

SPEAKER_02 18:20

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SPEAKER_00 20:02

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SPEAKER_06 20:28

Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Insurance Interlude with your host, Steve Sherwood, and our guest, Pat Grenon. So, Pat, thanks for coming on. We always appreciate you having you here. Appreciate you having me. So in every direction that we go, I just always feel like it's like shit that we talk about that. Like it's directly happening to me. So don't I'm here for it. Yeah. So I was gonna call you and uh talk to you about this, but this ongoing situation that I have right now is there is a house that's across the street from one of my clients. And it was like a little old lady, and she like would have me go over there and we did leak detection and we found out like there was a leak, but she never wanted to fix it because we had to bust up the concrete. You know, she wound up selling the house. Some other guy buys the house. He's like, Hey, I'm gonna get the pool renovated. I'd love for you to take it over because I know you're across the street, and this little old lady told me about you, so we'd love to use you for for service.

SPEAKER_05 21:20

Great.

SPEAKER_06 21:21

I'm like, awesome, perfect. So I show up and we start cleaning the pool, and my service guy sends me a picture, and there's fucking 50 rocks in the in the net. Oh wow. I don't mean like little rocks, I'm talking like uh pieces of concrete that are like three inches and four inches. They redid the whole deck and stuff and were not careful about that grout and stuff. So they didn't even redo the lines, they basically just put a facelift on it, right? So they did a resurface, they did the tile, and they did the you know, expansion joint, the coping, and the the deck around it, but they didn't do they didn't dig up any of the lines, they didn't do any of that stuff. And in plain English, they they made a mess. You you know what I mean, is really what it came down to. So I was like, hey, uh I don't know what's going on here, but this looks pretty terrible. And then all of a sudden, a few days later, the pump just like stopped working. And by stopped working, I mean that like the spa was going like draining, it was in pool mode, like something wasn't something was running, it was like it was almost running backwards. So I call my leak guy who's super awesome and like only does leak stuff. We've talked about this on the show a million times. If you don't have a leak guy that just does leaks, like go find one, you know, because they're the best at what they do. And I talked to him on the phone and he's like, Yeah, he's like, there's probably concrete stuck in the line. So he's like, Do we have a blower? Do we have a CO2 tank? He's like, I got these. So he goes over there. My service manager blows the line. And of course, we have to like cut the pipes and stuff too, because like this little balloon thing you got. shove into it. It's got to go in like three inches and like it's just it's turning into a mess. The my question though is like I said to my my now client, I was like, look, I'm like, I'll come do this stuff for you. But this isn't free. You know what I mean? Like I have now been there for seven hours and they're not finished. Like the next thing is we got to put a camera in there and see where it's at. And then once we find it, like then we're going to give them a quote to bust up the concrete. But like what I thought was gonna be a few hours of us being there has now turned into we think it's underneath the equipment. We got to move the equipment out of the way after we find it, bust up the concrete and like redo the plumbing in there. So they were like totally just come do it, you know, let us know what's wrong. They were like we don't want to work with this company anymore. Like number one, they're unlicensed and like number two they did a shitty job and like uh you know we already paid them so they're they're they're gone. But now what you know as somebody's trusted advisor in the pool area I I mean I just got off the phone with her right before I got on with you. And I was like hey I got this podcast I'm like I'm gonna give you a call back in uh in a bit but I'm actually going to talk with my insurance guy on the air about what were what your next steps are so how do you go how like what what do we do with this can of worms here.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

Yeah it's it excuse me it's it's tough man I you know be careful who you work with cheapest cheapest doesn't ever I I know everyone knows but cheapest doesn't ever rarely equate to even moderate quality work but yeah look it's you know unfortunately like I'm thinking about homeowner's insurance or if she has any insurance that may have some recourse you know to to help her with this you know and it may not be a bad idea for them to to check with their homeowner's insurance and just say hey here's the situation you know again it's the same thing that might open a can of worms that you don't want to that you don't want to so this is going to fall under secondary structures though.

SPEAKER_06 24:49

I know we've talked about this before pretty in depth but like uh so that's that's that's really what they what they need to even pull out a claim for this.

SPEAKER_05 24:58

Yeah and I and I don't think I don't think there's legs on it to be honest with you but like really what you'd be looking for as the homeowner is you'd be looking for the insurance company to handle the legal for you to go against this company because that's essentially where it's at right you had a company did a bad job bunch of documentation if they're gone you know if they're unlicensed they probably I don't know if that that I would you know maybe they probably don't have insurance that you could go after. So yeah and unfortunately it's kind of one of those things where you know it's it's a serious situation there's going to be a lot of money that they're gonna have to spend on this thing. You know I think it's a little bit of a Hail Mary to think that you'd get you know your homeowners to pick it up. I think it's maybe worth having a discussion. Again, you're kind of like like oh is your backyard a total mess and whatnot but if it's all put back together and everything's good it's just that you know there's no demo work or anything that you guys are doing to fix things uh then I don't think there's going to be any issue there.

SPEAKER_06 25:51

So you know no the demo work there's definitely demo where like I've come to the conclusion that we are going to be busting up the deck somewhere. Yeah definitely if my if my leak guy can't get can't blow out the line and he's telling me that there's no air coming through because he's blowing it from the pump back to the skimmer yeah and there's no air coming through whatsoever and then he pressure tested the line and there was like bubbling coming up from where he was at at the pump because we cut the line there and it's in the pipe right and you see that like it's so he said he was like look he was like it's right here you know he's like he's like it's not over by the skimmer I don't think he was like I think it got sucked down and it got caught in one of these right angles here. And like look there's guys you know there's cameras you could buy out there for 2500 bucks from Leytronics you know there's ones you can you know 30 dollar ones you can buy from Amazon. So we're gonna start with one of those because like we don't we don't I don't need to look in pipes that often and I don't need a you know three thousand dollar tool. Yeah I got enough shit we got enough shit already.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

So okay so what if what what would be a a another route like I I would go first like what what should happen is you know you go after the company that you know did the work you go after them and their insurance you know and say hey you need to initiate a claim I mean that's why if you hate this company and you don't want them back like do you have to offer for them to come back and and redo it? No you just say like at this point we just want the money like give us you could it you could it'd be cheapest you know it'd be cheapest and easiest right I mean obviously let me say fix this. Yeah that that's the easiest dude like I mean you know like that's kind of A1 yeah eat it I know you're pissed but you know take a couple deep breaths get them back out get them to fix it you're not gonna pay any extra money ideally if they refused or if you can't get a hold of them or whatever then it would be like all right well you know you need to put it in on your insurance the this is the important thing about having additional insured on their policy right so the homeowner if they were additionally insured on their policy and the homeowner on the company's policy? On the pool company's policy, right? So and the reason you would want that is if they say kick rocks, dude, the the job was fine that's not our problem then the homeowner would be able to initiate a claim on their insurance policy. So if they're not additionally insured then they aren't able to initiate a claim on the business's insurance policy. So that's why like you know a hotel or a commercial property wants to be listed as additionally insured on your own.

SPEAKER_06 28:27

And we do we do with all of our commercial properties.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

But this isn't something that I've even really thought about with yeah and and so the reason why they ask for that is so that no matter if you say kick rocks see us sorry, you know like they can go initiate a claim on your policy. But if they're not additional insured only the insured or additional insureds can initiate a claim right so you can come over and bulldoze my house if you're you know replacing the the sod in my front yard and you know burn the house down and you can just say sorry I'm gonna declare bankruptcy I'm I'm leaving I wouldn't be able to initiate a claim on your policy in that case unless I was additionally insured. I'd get with my insurance company and then they would go you know get after your business and and therefore your insurance but like you know that that's the whole thing like if if she if they go to the contractor who did this and say fix it, which is the easiest and they say no or oh it's going to cost you 20 grand for me to do the work, you know, and you know like I'm not paying you anything and then okay rat an impasse see you then as long as the homeowner requested to be additional insured on their policy before the work started, then they'd be able to initiate a claim and you know that way you know they have insurance and then you're able to initiate a claim on their policy. Yeah I think that that they probably didn't do that. 99% they didn't do that. It's it's so infrequent for residential to to ask for that. But like if you have a contractor that's going to go and do any work on your home or on your property ask to be additionally insured on their insurance. That way if they leave you high and dry, you know, you know they have an active policy and you know that you know they that you can initiate a claim whether they want to or not. Well I I would almost guarantee you that the homeowner was not listed as additionally insured. So hopefully number one works and it's like you know you know swallow the pissed off you know you know just go like hey we've got big problems here like you need to come fix this you know bust up the deck fix the pipe and then you know right off into the sunset never work with them again.

SPEAKER_06 30:30

Or get a lawyer you know which that that's that's that's that's that's the next insurance interlude because we're running out of time here. But uh that's that's what I want to know like uh let's talk about getting sued let's talk about uh you know what happens there because everything that we're talking about in this episode I don't think happened so and I I think that they're I've already I've already 10 times been like hey listen like you really should just you really should just go back to this company and say like hey come out here and have a meeting and like uh let's chat you know because those are the only people that you're gonna have any hope of coming in here and getting the work done for you know no money no no amount of money right so Pat thanks so much for coming on we always appreciate having you here listeners if you guys want to know more about California Pool Association please give them a ring and if you mention the Talking pools podcast they will give you a uh month off of your annual um I always want to say subscription liability policy from your liability policy well guys thank you out there for listening Pat thanks for coming on and we'll we'll chat at you next week have a good one thanks dude it's on a it's on a case by case basis and and I would say when I was dealing with it uh my first question well actually had two questions right away what distributor did you buy it from and what's the expiration date on the kit because we found that a lot of retail stores and some distributors and when the internet started to get crazy you you saw all these ads for the test kits online and it was an incredibly unusually low price so again we we would say well why is it such a low price and then a consumer would buy one of our kits off off the internet they'd get it and it doesn't work for whatever particular reason and it's not operator error which is usually what happens but it's it's something is chemically wrong and then I'll say well what's the expiration date what's the lot number turns out the reagent was like five years old so it's a either the distributor or the I mean let me rephrase that the seller was selling old product to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

So we we had to be very very careful that's why we were so specific with our return policy is that if if it's non-chemical if it's non-reagent related yeah I'll replace it I'll replace a comparator block or a test kit case or something like that. That's not a big issue. Doesn't cost a whole lot of money to make doesn't cost a whole lot of money to ship out okay but what does cost money is the the actual reagents themselves because of how they're made how they're formulated but the fact that that most of most of the chemicals in the test kit and this is anybody's test kit only good for a certain amount of time um there are a couple exceptions mostly acids but but like some of the indicator solutions the DPD reagents they're only good for a few for maybe six months to a year sometimes two years. So you know if you if you so so what is the moral of this if you go into a retail store and you see off of a table by the counter clearance sale and you see one of our test kits on there don't buy it because the odds are high that that kit is old. And now that you can tell with an expiration date and a lot number but usually expiration date how old it really is and it specifically says don't use if more than two years old. Okay specifically says that but yet they'll sell it out of clearance to get rid of it. And that that's why we had to to to every call we got about this every distributor question we we had to go and say get more details more information and I'm I'm not going to name names but there was a distributor in the Northeast that would that would order from us on a what we call an early buy order uh so that you would pay it you know current year's prices in the next year kind of deal and would consistently call us back after they got their early buy shipment and want to send back half their order. You know we we knew this was going to happen so we kind of took care of that on our own but you know their excuse was oh well we ordered wrong or or we didn't think we wanted but reagents old no it's not old buddy it's perfectly fine. So you have to be very careful that particularly with the internet is that if you go on the internet and do a search on on a test kit, a Lamac kit, you know Taylor Kit, whatever and you see well I'll give you an example I think that the Taylor K 2005 the the standard in the industry pretty much when I when I started with Taylor it was 25 bucks now it's like 70 or 80 or something like that. But but but let's say it's it's 70 dollars okay if you bought it directly from us and you didn't have any kind of a a discount or anything you're just like a consumer and you bought it from us let's say it was 70. You go on the internet and you see some retail store someplace in the middle of the country is selling it for 35 okay don't buy it because it's probably old and they just want to get rid of it. And we've when when when the internet store first started we saw that a lot so cost consumers would call us complaining about the kit and we're saying our hands are tied you know the kit is two years old we're not going to take it back sorry we can't give you your money back because we didn't sell it to you you got to go to the seller okay and complain to them and see what you can do about a replacement or get your money back. If it was a distributor issue then yeah I would get involved but if it's just a regular consumer buying it off the internet and they think they got a wonderful price and it doesn't work well there's a reason. And and you know you can't come running back to us complaining and wanting a refund when we didn't sell it to them. And it's it's pretty much just as simple as that. So you you gotta be you got to be very conscious of now now this is just on the chemical side and I know that on equipment things of like that it's a little bit different. Okay. But when you're talking about anything chemical and I'm also throwing in test strips for this too. It's the same issue. But anything anything potentially chemical testing wise unless is within at least when Taylor was concerned a 30 day window we wouldn't take it back because we can't resell it you know there's there's no sense to it.

SPEAKER_06 36:47

No I mean that makes it makes sense it's just sometimes you know I try and look at the expiration date all the time but like it's not you know what I mean there's just like uh there's so much that you're consuming that like some things don't have a date on it and like you're busy and you just go grab stuff and you know and for the most part I think that you know the industry itself when there is an issue or anything like that they they usually are pretty quick to correct it. But I know that there also you know has been some issues with with Pentair and their salt cells. And uh you know kind of on the internet it's like a a little bit like wildfire right now because it's kind of a a new issue but it's affecting like a you know a large amount of of the things that they're selling uh you know from the floor. And I know that like all of the manufacturers have had problems in the past with uh you know especially salt cells and you know software on them and like little pieces of hardware and stuff like that. Usually it's corrected pretty quickly and I you know I think Penta said that it should be like a month or so that where they'll get it and they've got a bunch of people working on it. And you know for the most part Pentair does a really great job with with their stuff but you know I think look out because you you might not be able to you know find a salt cell as easily as you you thought it was you know so just be careful there. And this isn't this isn't an off-brand product this is you know one of the big three here that we're we're talking about so just imagine you know what it could look like if you're you're getting stuff randomly off the internet. And again I I you know I used to be such a proponent of like don't buy off brand shit like you know support your you know support local support your people but like who are we really supporting you you know what I mean like you need to support yourself is really what it is you know and like uh it doesn't matter about pool companies like the only thing that I know about companies that are public and all of the big big manufacturers are are public all of the big distributors are public you know and unfortunately when you become that size at the end of the day you have a a board right that you need to get approval and you have a stock price that moves up and down you know and I've got a couple friends that are that are executives at some some bigger companies here in LA and just like that that's the only thing like it doesn't matter what happened or how it's just what did we make money or did we not make money and are we giving money back to the shareholders or no? And if you're giving money back you are successful and if you're not it's a failure. It's pretty you know it's pretty clean cut right so all of the manufacturers have to work very hard to you know keep everyone in their good graces really not just the consumer but also the people that work for for their company too. Yeah so it becomes a you know complicated web of of things but all of that shit like we can't like I I don't I have nothing to do with it. It's almost like politics it's like you could you could sit here and talk about politics you know till you're blue in the face and like sure like the local shit that I vote on you know like might might happen it might not but I feel you feel like very disconnected from the you know from the federal government especially right especially with everything going on and and whatnot. So it's just kind of a you have to worry about you is really what it comes down to. So like uh in my business like I'm worried about our our company and I'm worried about our employees and making sure that we have enough work for them and making sure that they're happy and making sure that they stay you know and that's that's the stuff that I I I worry about and the stuff not that I can control it. Like if a guy's gonna leave he's gonna leave but if you treat your employees really well you know for the most part they're they're gonna stay. But that's the stuff that you can control. And you also can control the product that you buy and comes in and out of your you know of your pool company. So you know focus on the the lesson here is just you know focus on the stuff that you can control. And like the story that I had at the beginning of the you know of the show where I always try and make my clients feel like I'm getting them the best deal that they can get. You know and sometimes like if it happens once in a while where if it's one of my clients and like sometimes we won't make money on the product you know because we make money on the install or whatever it may be. So you know doing the right thing goes goes a long way and that doesn't matter whether you're you know matters personally too in business in in everything it's it's a it's a big deal. So just try and do right by your especially by your clients that are your weekly clients and they'll stick with you.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

So yeah I wanted to also bring up one thing that I didn't warn you about when we talked beforehand but I don't know if you've seen this yet or not but Leslie's you know the four million customer accounts that they have or whatever Leslie's had incredibly high third quarter profits or second quarter profits. And they kind of boast about it but in the same article that said that they're probably going to follow and potentially restructure now now I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer and and not quite sure how it all works. I used to know how it worked but not anymore. This is not anything viral but it's already out there on the internet but I'd kind of pay attention to it if you buy some products or you have your customers who buy stuff from Leslie's just be aware of stuff that's going on because let me tell you if Leslie's followed bankruptcy and closes their stores that's got to be fun so they closed they closed a lot of stores last year. Yeah they did they did and the two that are closest to me are still open but you can tell that they're let's just say they don't take care of their location like it should be taken care of and I'm just gonna leave it like that. But uh yeah there's been a big downhill and Leslie's has been around for forever I remember when they first started in the industry like what like in mid 90s or something like that. And Leslie's has been was always a good customer for us a very good customer. We private label stuff for them too they were also sometimes the biggest pain in the ass because of how they did you know how they did their testing and storage and all stuff that you know the average person could really care less about but it mattered to to me to us. But uh just kind of be aware of that and and and you know keep one ear to the computer and uh see what comes up and this was on this actually was on CNN that that I saw yesterday.

SPEAKER_06 43:37

Yeah we shop at we shop at Leslie's pretty frequently yeah and like uh I don't again I I don't discriminate like if I'm near your store and you you have something that I need like I'm coming there to get it.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Right.

SPEAKER_06 43:51

You know if you're a listener and you are going to Leslie's like you have to have a pro account with them. You know it's worthwhile to set up the paperwork and do it because you're gonna get better discounts on your chemicals and on your product and all that stuff. So for me the average daily user at Leslie's we've heard about the changes but we haven't seen anything directly to us. The only thing that I found is that like they used to match pricing all the time where I would walk in and I would say hey this other distributor their pricing is less like I want to buy it from you I want to buy six of them can you you know and they would be like no and I think I've said this before on the show that like the price wasn't $10. It was a lot of money that was different on each of them and if you're buying six of them it was hundreds and hundreds of dollars that I was just buying the same product from you when I could get it over here for hundreds of dollars or less and it's all same warranty same OEM same fucking manufacturer You know, so what they've done is they've condensed their their workforce, they closed some of their stores, and basically they're having people take on more jobs for the same amount of money. So now there's like a regional manager that has six stores because now all the regional people, when they come in, like it's it's the leash is pretty tight. Let's just let's just say that. You know, with their with their product and their pricing and just everything that they're doing, they are again, like we said before, they're looking at that quarterly number in that quarterly earnings release call, and they're making sure that that number is you know profitable. But how many profitable companies out there have you know filed chapter 11 bankruptcy? Right. And just because they just because they go bankrupt doesn't mean that they're gonna close all of their stores. I think that they would just there's three stores that are near me in the area that I shop in. You know, there's one, there's two of them in the same town. So like if they went bankrupt, I would think that one of those stores would close and the other would just absorb all of that business. Because you know how many residential customers, like randos, come in there and just because if you have a pool and you're taking care of it yourself, and like you want to get like a real water test and you don't want to go buy a test kit, guess where you're gonna go? Leslie's does it for free for you. That's the reason they do it for free is because they want you to come in and they want to sell you the shit that they I was just there two days ago and I walked in, and this guy was like, Hey, I was here last time and the pool was green, it's green again. Like, here's my water, can you give me the same stuff? You know, people keep coming back, right? And a lot of people don't they want to take care of the pool, but they don't know about the pool. So if you don't know about the pool, Leslie's is gonna be your trusted advisor. So this is why every time you go out into someone's backyard, I'm like, I went out yesterday to this, and it was not a weird situation, it's just a situation that doesn't always happen. So the son called me and he was like, Hey, he's like, My mom's in her 90s, she still drives a Corvette, lives up in Coldwater Canyon. She was a very famous lady when she was younger. And uh, he was like, She's you know, pretty set in her ways, but he was like, Uh, I looked you guys up on the internet and like I searched you out, and like I would like you to go meet her, and uh, you know, her pool just got resurfaced and stuff. So I was like, Oh my god, yeah, I'll go out there. And I gave him the price, and he was like, She's gonna brock it, he's she's gonna balk at that price. And I was like, okay, and like I was willing to go down a little bit, you know. And I went there and like I went through everything with her, and I just at the end of it, I was like, I'm not getting this. You know, I just had the feeling like uh this isn't this isn't gonna work out. But I was really nice and I I was, you know, I was like, hey, no matter who takes care of the pool, make sure that you use a sequestrying agent because your pool is brand new. But like she had some like weird requests, like she was running her pool from you know midnight to 10 a.m. But she was like concerned about energy use. But she has the pool at 90 all the time, so it's it's always going on every single night in the middle of the night. You know, Wayne, that convection is 50% of all your heat loss, right? So I was like, okay, cool. Like if you really want to have some energy savings, then put on a cover. And like, you know, 90-something year old woman is not gonna take off the cover. I get that. So she just wants to use the she just wants to use the pool. So I totally understand it, but I took the time to have the follow-up conversation with the son and say, hey, like I it's probably not gonna work out, but like here are the things that I went over with your mom. And I had like a 10-minute conversation with him. And even if I don't get the business, you know, if something happens and this guy moves back down or he takes over the house later on or whatever, he's gonna remember, like at the end of the conversation, he was so thankful. He was like, Oh my god, like I'm so happy that I met you, like no matter what. He was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna supplement it for my mom. He's like, I'm gonna give her money to help get you in there. And I was like, dude, that's amazing. But like, uh, I I you know, honestly, I'm not gonna hold my breath, you know. But you sometimes you have to go out. And I same day I went out uh to a commercial client and he was like, hey, he was like, I want to do CPO with you. He's like, we'd like to do an in-person class. And he was like, also, he's like, my controller is not working. He's like, you know, I'm in downtown LA. You think you could stop by and we could chat about the CPO and uh we could get like a you know a quote for the the automation machine, a new one? And I was like, Yeah, perfect. So went up there and he was like, Oh man, like I'm so happy you're here. He called me what when I'm on my way up. He's like, Do you have chlorine on you? And I was like, Yeah, of course. Why? And he was like, Well, he's like, the pool is cloudy, and I was like, Okay, cool, like I'll I'll come try and help you figure it out, you know. And I went and pool's cloudy every day. There are pool guys there five days a week. So I was like, something's wrong. Wayne, I tested the water, the pH was at 5.8. Okay, because the guy came in in the morning and he dumped in six bags of trichlor. He also put in a couple gallons of chlorine, but that didn't offset the pH enough. So the alkalinity, okay. I did a full panel test. The alkalinity was at 20, the pH was at six, and I know it could be pH bounce, but like at that point, like it's it's bottomed out at that point. It was totally yellow. The TDS was at 5,000, and the cyaneric acid, the cyaneric acid was at zero. Okay, so the ladders were all like broken and stuff, like they weren't working. There was a a handrail that was broken, the ladder steps were like old school, they were like the steps that are in the wall. All three of them are crop. Okay. So I was like, holy shit. I'm like, this is a mess, you know. So he's like, Can I have my GM come up here and like talk to you? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. I'm like, I'll go over all this stuff with you because most of this stuff is code and safety violations. Like, let's go over it. So GM comes up there, they literally fire the pool guy on the spot and they were like, Steve, send us a proposal. They were like, we want to get started this week. So like I had no idea that I was walking into a new possible five-day-a-week client. And I told them, I'm like, look, I'm like, if we're coming five days a week, I'm like, that then there's something wrong. Like, we should be able to train you guys. And again, like if you work with hotels and HOAs and stuff and they are not helping you, you need to set the precedent at the beginning. And you need to say, we are here two days a week, three days a week, you are here four days a week, five days a week.

unknown 51:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 51:37

Shadow me every time I come for the first two weeks. Watch what I do, I'll show you how to test the water, and you don't need to be a hero. All you need to do is test the chlorine, backwash the filter when the pool closes, and put in chlorine if it needs. And I will literally get you a sheet that says, if it's this, put in this, if it's that, put in that. And we give you a measuring cup, we give you chlorine, get to it. And I don't need you to, I don't need you to do the cyanuric acid. I don't need you to do the alkalinity. We'll do that shit tomorrow. But like, if these guys aren't helping you, and these guys were like, we will do whatever to help. Like, we want to help. Like, they were so sick of their pool guy because he was throwing them under the bus and he was there five days a week. And I was like, guys, I'm like, are you telling me that this pool, no matter what you do, is cloudy five days a week? And they're like, Yeah. And I was like, all right. I was like, I'm gonna tell you that even if we come in here and we keep the pool as is, it's still gonna be cloudy five days a week because we need to drain the water and we need to change out the fucking sand in the sand filter. Like that is what's going on. Because if there's chlorine in the pool, you know, if the water's balanced, then it's gotta be filtration if the water's cloudy, gotta be. Right? So, my point here is I went to two different different properties. One of them I thought I was gonna get, I was like, Oh, the sun loves me. Like this, I'm shooting here. And I get there and I was like, I'm not getting this. And then there was another one where I thought I was getting some CPO business, and I walk in and I got a contract. So you never know, you know, who's gonna be on the other end of that phone. So that's why like you always, always, always just want to put your best foot forward. And if you got to go out of your way to help people out a little bit, you know, it's worthwhile, not only in the karma, but just in like if that person ever, if he grew up here in LA and someone asks him, like, hey, I need a pool guy in LA, like who do you think he's recommending? Even though I don't service his mom's pool. Yep, he's recommending us, you know, and there's no there's no better marketing in the whole world, like the internet marketing and the Facebook marketing and the Instagram marketing. There is no better marketing, Wayne, than word of mouth. Okay, and if somebody asks you, hey, I need a guy for this, and you say this guy is absolutely amazing, what do you think they're gonna use? Yeah, and you know, listeners out there, that's gonna be you. And you know, these neighbors that you have, and you know, the people that you service, you you really I always tell my guys that work for me, everyone's gonna remember the last you could have been the best service company in the world, and you do, you know, one thing that gets on this person's bad side, and that is all they remember, you know. So you have to be really, really uh just conscious of how you deal with these people. And you know, I'm I don't necessarily think that all of you listeners out there are people persons, people people, you know. There's a lot of people that don't like talking to people, but they got into the pool business and they were like, oh shit, I can make a decent living doing this, but I really don't like talking to the people, you know, and that's something that it doesn't come, you know, it doesn't come naturally, like Wayne, you know, you didn't just step out onto the stage and start, you know, belting out songs and stuff. Yeah, that's right, you know, it's scary at first getting up in front of a stage of people and talking or talking to these people on the phone. And that's why, like at the beginning, talk to everybody and ask those questions and find out. And now you can, you know, after you ask these questions, you're the more people you talk to, you're gonna be like, wow, that one's not for me. You know, like I can tell right away. Like I said to Jen the other day, I called her, like I stepped away, and I was like, Jen, I was like, I want this client. I'm like, this is a cool hotel. I'm like, uh, you know, they seem to be really hopped up on us. I was like, uh, let's go for it, you know, because I I not only that, like I also talked to my team and I'm like, hey, are you guys ready to pick up a five-day week pool? Like, you want that? You know, because you're gonna be driving across town every morning during eight o'clock during rush hour. Like, are you okay with that? And usually if it's money, like the guys are okay for it. But you know, at the same time, it if you take on, you know, if you bite off more than you can chew. And you know, one of the great examples now, like, I don't know if you know Jersey Mike's, they they sold to private equity not too long ago. And they won't they wanna they want to like double their size in the next couple years? Like they already have like almost 4,000 stores. Like I feel like any city in the country that you go to, like, everybody's like, oh, let's go to Jersey Mike's. And I'm like, Jersey Mike's is where my parents live, like they literally live in the town where it started in Point Pleasant Beach, New Jersey. But, you know, some of the the downside of that is that you know, now people are complaining that, like, hey, my sandwiches aren't as thick, and like they're using different types of products. And you know, a lot of times when you sell it to private equity again, they're only looking at the bottom line. So, moral of my story today is just treat your clients well and uh do the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Yep. And read the labels and be aware of scams. So do your homework. Alrighty, guys, thank you. Uh and gals too, of course. Uh, thank you for listening to us today. We appreciate it. And again, uh any comments, suggestions, uh like that, please send over to talkingpools at gmail.com. If we happen to use that particularly particular uh information, we'll send you a little thank you gift. We appreciate it as always. Steve, have a great week. Hope everything is good for you out there on the West Coast. Over here, it's pouring down rain right now. So take care, guys, and and have a good week. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Have a good week.