Why Pool Pros Should Stop Ignoring Spas (and What Could Cost You Everything) with Adrian Lacey

Most pool professionals know pools.

But when a spa needs repair?

Suddenly everyone starts looking for "the spa guy."

This week on Mondays Down Under, Lee Salisbury and Nick welcome one of Australia's leading spa equipment specialists, Adrian Lacey of Spatex, for an eye-opening discussion that every pool technician, retailer, and service company needs to hear.

If you've ever avoided spa repairs because they seemed too complicated—or too risky—this episode explains why that hesitation may be costing you a profitable part of your business.

More importantly...

It explains how to do it safely.

In this episode:

• Why spas are one of the biggest untapped opportunities for pool professionals
• Common misconceptions that keep technicians away from spa service
• The importance of partnering with licensed electricians and gas fitters
• Diagnosing leaks, pumps, air controls, jets, blowers, and electronic controls
• Why replacing the wrong pump can create serious safety hazards
• Understanding hydraulic flow rates and why bigger pumps often make things worse
• Pipe sizing mistakes that dramatically reduce system performance
• Why proper plumbing layout matters more than horsepower
• The importance of flow meters instead of guessing hydraulic performance

Sacrificial Anodes Explained

Adrian also dives into one of the industry's most misunderstood topics:

• Galvanic corrosion
• Electrolytic corrosion
• Chemical corrosion

Learn:

• Why they are completely different problems
• How sacrificial zinc anodes work
• What they can—and cannot—protect
• Why every heated pool deserves consideration for corrosion protection
• Why an anode should never replace finding the actual cause of corrosion

Pool Safety That Too Many Professionals Overlook

The conversation shifts into one of the most important topics in the industry:

Safety.

Including:

• Equipotential bonding
• Electrical safety around spas
• Voltage differences and corrosion
• Why technicians should carry a non-contact voltage tester
• Suction entrapment hazards
• Ventilated skimmer requirements
• Understanding Australian Standard AS 1926.3
• When replacing equipment legally requires bringing systems up to current safety standards

Adrian shares practical advice that could help technicians avoid costly mistakes—and potentially save lives.

Plus

• Why documentation protects your business
• When you should walk away from an unsafe job
• Why staying within your qualifications protects both your customers and your livelihood
• Free technical resources available through the Spartex mobile app
• How decades of technical knowledge are being shared with the industry

Whether you service residential pools, commercial facilities, or have never touched a spa before, this episode is packed with practical advice, safety insights, and real-world experience that every pool professional can benefit from.

🎙 Guest: Adrian Lacey – Spatex

🎧 Hosted by: Lee Salisbury & Nick

📅 Series: Mondays Down Under

Listen now and discover why expanding your knowledge of spas may be one of the smartest business decisions you make this year.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, good whatever time of the day it is. It is time for Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pool Pot Pools podcast. Jeez, that was a mouthful today. My name's Lee, and I am the pool shop coach. And of course, I am joined today by only one of our two amigos, let's face it. Nick in Brisbane. Hey Nick, how are you? Yeah, good thanks, Lee. How are you going?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Is it what's the temperature down there?

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Uh look, I've got the heater on, so I've taken my jacket off, but it is a bit cool. There is snow now falling on the mountains, so which we are only a couple hours away from. So we're feeling it a bit fresh down here, unlike you in sunny Brisbane. So is it sunny?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Beautiful place to be. Yeah, beautiful place to be always.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Your girl's still swimming in the pool?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

They they jumped in and jumped straight back out. It's too cold. Too cold now. Yeah. Dad won't turn the heater on, will he? No, no, no chance.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Unfortunately, Shane isn't with us at the moment. He's taking a bit of a reprieve from recording at the moment. He's got a lot on and we wish him well at the moment. So but joining us, we have a special guest. And I'm very honored to have this person join us. I have actually dealt with, as Nick has, dealt with this person for uh many years now, and he is an absolute guru in the spa space, which is really a topic that we haven't covered much on Talking Pools Podcast, and probably an area that a lot of service technicians and retailers would desperately benefit from knowing more about. So I'm sure everyone will appreciate today's topic. And we are blessed with the presence of Adrian Lacey from SparTechs. Hey Adrian, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Great. Thanks, Lee. Nick, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

So, Adrian, I know our paths have crossed many a time over the years. You were my go-to guru for all things Spa, and I'm sure I was one of those annoying retailers and service technicians that rang with lots of questions and emailed lots of photos to identify those really odd spare parts and bits and pieces that we always seem to know need. So I'm sure lots of our listeners are probably clients of yours too, or need to be, let's face it.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah, that's right. Well, look, that's that's one of the things we're you know more than happy to offer as a service to identify and help. You know, we're not expecting everybody to have the knowledge on this side of the industry that that we've got. But there's a you know desperate need for more technicians out there to be servicing local customers because the you know dedicated spa tech professionals are few and far between. So there's there's plenty of gaps where um others in the industry can you know help replace spa jets and pumps and fittings and diagnose why and air controls leaking and so many other things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah. Spas are a bit of a specialty area. Um I suppose like when I talk to clients about pools or spas, or even commercial pools for that matter, like I talk to service technicians and that when I'm delivering training, and I say, like, commercials pools are just domestic pools on steroids. And I suppose to a certain degree, spas are just shrunken pools from for for some description anyway.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, that's right. I I mean I think the similarity is they both hold the water and uh they both have pumps, but the reason they've got a pump is completely different. So, you know, a a purpose for pool equipment is to keep the water clean. And with a spa you're looking for therapeutic action and pressure and and a jet action that makes it more unique, along with when's that you know, well you get buoyancy from pool water too, but um therapy from the heat and therapy heat and uh massage and buoyancy is what you're getting out of a spa.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah. And they've got really popular. Obviously, the wellness space, spas and now saunas and plunge pools, ice plunge, they have really taken off. So um I would imagine your workload has increased.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, it has somewhat. I think a lot of it's to do with um downsizing of backyards, to be honest. No one's got space for large pools anymore, and they want to maintain a little bit of lawn for the dog, and it can't fit much more in than a swim spa. So I I think that's driven quite a lot of the sales.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Like, I know I've spoken to a lot of technicians and they're a bit hesitant about the whole spa space. Where do you think that comes from and how can they overcome it?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah, it's it's mainly because of uh lack of understanding of uh and lack of exposure, I suppose, as well to like you said earlier, uh there's some very special components that uh are very unfamiliar on the pool side of the industry. So uh gaining a bit more knowledge and understanding on what they are and what they're for, where you can get them from is the biggest one. I mean, you can't just call up the general swimming pool wholesale companies to to purchase a lot of these parts. So I I think a lot of the pool side of the industry are a little bit uh afraid of spas, to be honest. So they don't want to spend time going out on the job and and essentially wasting time fumbling through trying to work out what they need when they could be doing other jobs that they're more familiar with. But there's a a huge benefit to to getting involved because there's you know, it's it's a lucrative side of the uh industry as well. Most of the parts are quite expensive, so uh it's well worth gaining some knowledge of.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah, absolutely. Definitely uh maybe a potential untapped market out there for some of our listeners. Because there I think there's a bit of a hesitation around spas, like it was always a bit like to me, like a hot water service. Do I need an electrician or do I need a plumber? And then when people who have a spa problem and they would ring us and get a bit of a diagnosis over the phone, um, we might point them in the in the uh direction of an electrician. And then of course, electricans look at it and go, no, no, no, you need someone from the pool shop or and it's like the the poor customer feels like they're on a on a roundabout. So aligning yourself with a good electrician who's prepared to learn about spas. And we certainly had uh a couple in our area that actually became c customers of yours because I pointed them your way to get their their bits and pieces for their for the spa repairs. Yeah, hugely beneficial when you can get a electrician who's willing to learn about spas and and actually tackle them without being scared or put off by them.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, that's right. I mean, either employing an electrician within your own business um to carry out all those repairs or subcontracting one that you can go out to job simultaneously and uh they can do the heavy lifting on the electrically qualified sections of it while you're doing the the rest of it. So um same as gas fitting or any other licensed trades, you know, you can just work in conjunction and uh rather rather than just rule out that as a job for you, you can still take it on and uh and get your cut out of uh the the side of the business that you're doing. Like you might be replacing an electronic spa control system, it might need re-plumbing, uh, you might have to jigsaw the hole for the touchpad. You can do all that and just have the electrician do the um final connections and uh and get it up and running. So there's there's definitely plenty of work for the bull side of the industry in spas that doesn't require an electrician. As at you know, it's things like leaks in air controls, jets that have perished that cause water to leak out of air controls. You know, just jamma leaks everywhere, of course. And and generally you're pretty most spars now have two or three pumps plus a blower, ozone. There's lots of components that can fail, they're easily replaced uh or repaired. So uh we carry parts for just about everything if it's available. So uh there's there's always something there, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

And I know what Adrian quite handy to you, Nick. You were only there today. What were you there for?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Uh this is how we sort of uh became in contact a few years ago, and I was going down looking the rabbit hole looking for uh some information on a stainless steel handrail that was corroding away. And I eventually ended up on Adrian's doorstep looking for some sacrificial anodes, which I just simply can't find anywhere else. So why do you have those, Adrian? Why are you the uh go-to man for anodes? Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Well, that's one of the areas we cross over into the pool side of the industry because they're not used so much on the spa side other than in ground, uh, which you know 90% of the industry or or greater is all portable spas now. But uh sacrificial anodes, if you've got a boat or uh you know a bit about hot water systems, you'd know that they've got sacrificial anodes to protect against uh corrosion and and early destruction of either a boat, motor, or hot water system. And the same applies to uh swimming pools and a pool equipment. And we've got two different types of issues that can occur in this area: galvanic corrosion and um electrolytic corrosion, which is often confused. And to be perfectly honest, most of the time the damage is chemical corrosion that homeowners don't want to, you know, accept responsibility that it could possibly be them getting their chemicals wrong. But you know, 90% of the time that's the issue. But galvanic corrosion in your case today is whether you've got two metals in contact with each other in the presence of an electrolyte. So that's for argument's sake, the bolts holding a handrail to the side of the pool in contact with um, you know, um chemically treated pool water, and you'll get galvanic corrosion if those two metals are dissimilar in any way, and even two grades of 316 stainless steel can be different, and uh or a weld in 316 could be different to the 316 material, uh, or someone might have used 304 or any other sort of metal, and you'll get galvanic corrosion setting up because it's like a little battery, it's effectively what's happening. You've got an anode and a cathode and an electrolyte, and you've got movement of material corroding one side, plating another side that occurs. The other side of it is electrolytic corrosion, which is essentially transferring an anode across to a cathode through an electrolyte. So that's where you'll get a problem with corrosion of heater, um, heater elements and other metal components within the pool due to an electrical current that might be present, which is common in the areas like uh the Gold Coast, where you've got really sandy soil and two high rises with a pool between them. If the earth at one building is a few volts different to the other building, you've got a few volts across your pool. If the pool bonding on the steel in the concrete isn't perfect, you can end up with a battery, but your pool becomes a battery between the two high rises, and you'll get a current flow through, and it will just eat heater elements and handrails and step steps and all those sorts of things, anything metallic that's in a pool. So uh using a sacrificial anode is it's it's more than a band-aid, but it's also not the solution. It's essentially um a recognition that you've got a problem because you'll see the anode corroding away or becoming white and discolored. And effectively what it is is a chunk of zinc, which is much more of an anode than any other metal that's especially that's used in a swimming pool. So if there's going to be any loss of material, it'll be that zinc gets sacrificed, hence the term sacrificial anode. Um, it sacrifices and travels through the water and plates something else. So if you've got a big problem, you might have a handrail that's corroding away because of this issue, and you'll know straight away that you haven't got this problem because the anode will wear out, and also you might find that the handrail gets plated with zinc and is no longer shiny, stainless anymore, it becomes dull. And uh that's not a fault of the anode, that's it doing its job. If you've got a real problem, that's what will happen. 90% of the time, you know, the anode will look perfect for months and months because really it was a chemical issue all along. But it's a very cheap safeguard for an expensive heater, particularly.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

So probably a good recommendation to have these on every pool?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Would that every pool with a heater? Yeah, definitely I would, because um, you know, gas heaters and uh heat pumps. Heat pumps are mainly titanium, to my knowledge, so they're not really going to be a problem. But gas heaters in particular, you know, it's a very high expense item to not put on such a low expense piece of protection. So I I'd recommend it definitely.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

And you were talking about the fact that like there's um electrical, there's a voltage difference and the voltage in the water, but obviously not enough for us to pick it up as as humans. Maybe we get a tingle or No, you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

But I mean that's that's one of the reasons um equipotential bonding is so important, which you know that's that's the earth bonding of everything around the pool, including the Rio in the down in the concrete defences, all all the equipment that's uh electrically conductive within arm's reach of the pool is all earth because if everything's at earth, you you cannot you can't have a voltage difference between where you're standing and what you're touching. So there's no risk of electrocution or or shock of any sort. So but we're talking voltages that are really low, like you know, you only need one volt or two volts, and over time it's going to do a lot of damage if it's um left unchecked. And it's it's only possible if that bonding wasn't done perfectly, or as you know, over time has somehow um eroded away.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Right. Yeah, real really interesting. I don't know a lot about electricity, I have to fully confess, but it has always been something that's interested me like how can a pool technician actually check to n to know that there's not an issue with the bonding. And that's something that we struggle with because we, as service technicians, we come in after the fact. It's everything's already under the ground. We hope and trust that the builder has done it correctly. I know things are very different in the US, so I'm not even going to touch the US market. But in the Australian market, what can we do to protect ourselves?

SPEAKER_00 14:11

There's there's not a lot on that side of it. The only the first real uh indication there might be a problem is a customer saying that they've had a tingle by touching the water or or you know being in the pool and touching uh something and they've got a tingle or a or a like an electrical spike or something. That's uh an instant uh red flag and should be reported immediately to the electrical authorities because it's not just limited to the pool. If you've got that problem, um the same thing could happen by touching a garden tap. Uh, I think it was about four years ago a nine-year-old girl died in Western Australia from touching a garden tap that had become live because the earthing potential of the water uh the water pipes had changed. I think a plumber had changed some pipes from uh galvanized to plastic and didn't reconnect the bonding to the uh the rest of the galvanized pipe in the system, so effectively uh left it to float above uh the normal earth potential, and there was enough I'm not exactly sure what happened. I think the neutral on the main power lines became a bad connection and uh it must have got to like 100 volts and and she was electrocuted. So that that can the first sign of that could be out of tap, could be in your shower, could be at the kitchen sink, or it could be at the pool, and should be reported in every case because you shouldn't be getting anything re- um remotely like uh an electric shock or a tingle if everything's bonded properly.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, and uh while this is completely off topic, obviously p handrails comes into this. Like we often see a lot of pool technicians installing handrails if they're installing stainless steel ones as opposed to the what's the material need. Saffron. Yeah, saffron. Yeah, they've got to be bonded. And there's a lot of technicians out there that aren't doing that. So word of warning to anybody out there, if you are installing a handrail, it needs to be electrically bonded. If not, go for the Saftron ones, which don't need to be because of the coating or what they're made of. So yeah. So galvanic and electrolytic. I've written that down now.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Even even a lot of the skimmer box lids that are metal now with the uh tile that are in the top, you know. I've I've seen a couple of them that have been earthed, but they should be earthed as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Oh if if it's just the uh if it's just the cover with the tile, that's okay. But if the uh frame of it is metal as well, then it does need so it's gotta be got to be permanently connected to the ground and more than 100 millimetres in any dimension, um, then it must be bonded. So that's fence figures and uh you know a permanently bolted down umbrella, uh you know, all those sorts of things. Anything within arm's reach, which is 1.25 metres, has to be earth bonded.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

So uh but like we were saying, uh an anode, sacrificial anode, will potentially, if we boot to put that on all pools or spas, in ground pools or spas, it's going to identify an issue.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Not not relating not relating to earth bonding. Um uh sorry, not relating to earth bonding for safety of of people. It's um the earth bonding of the actual swimming pool shell itself. If you if you think about like a big metal bowl, which is which is what a concrete pool is that's been fully encased with a um a you know steel reo in enforcement all the way around it, as long as all of that metal is continuous and in contact with the electrical earthing system of of the property that the pump and everything's uh connected to, then everything has to be at the exact same potential, and you won't have a galvanic or electrolytic corrosion issue because no current can flow because it's all at exactly the same earthing potential.

unknown 17:54

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

So it's uh it's only when there's a breakdown or missing bonds or poorly um assembled reinforcing steel or a lack of it. And and that also applies to steel in the uh bond around the other side of a fiberglass pool as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah. So if we were to install one and we didn't get any corrosion or anything on it, then we know we don't have a problem. And then the moment we notice something, then we go, okay, there's something here we need to investigate for potential.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yep, that's correct. Yeah, it's always it's it's just preventative uh care. So that you know, if you look at it and and you go, well, just spent a few hundred dollars on that and it's not even changing. Well, that's that's just a small cost for the um the peace of mind. It's you've actually got a system that's all set up properly as it should be, and it's um you've got no corrosion issues relating to electrolysis or galvanic. And it if there's an issue there with corrosion, then it's got to be chemical.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

So what's a rough uh retail price on a sacrificial anode?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Uh I think they're about $275. I think they're not not expensive at all.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

No, really, for the peace of mind and and and uh the protection that it gives you from like as that sacrificial component, uh highly valuable when compared to the cost of a heating element. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I'll just have to point out though, you do need an electrician to connect it because it it goes in the pipework near your equipment, but it has an earth cable, it's got to be bonded into the um electrical circuit that's feeding the pool equipment. So you need an electrician to connect that up.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Fair point. All right.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Well that's we've got a few of those on our commercials as well, uh mainly because of seeing issues and yeah, they're great.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah, because handrails in in commercial pools can be a big issue because a lot of them have those safety rails and they're underwater. So I think that's where it's obviously gets to be very obvious.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, we've seen we've seen a fair few issues with galvanic corrosion on them because of the dissimilar metals being used. You know, you don't know the quality control on some of those products coming out of, you know, Asian countries where they've they're building them cheaper, they might not be using the right grades of stainless steel in the first place, or they've you know got a much higher carbon content that you know is more iron, more rusting capability, but the welds might be different materials and the bolts. And uh you only need that little tiny bit of difference and you'll you'll get a uh corrosion issue startup straight away.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Is this might sound like a stupid question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Is there a difference? Does galvanic versus electrolytic versus chemical corrosion look different from a visual perspective?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Look, I've I've seen it in every form, so it's really hard to tell sometimes. So, you know, it's the the arguments we normally hear are are um customers complaining to pool builders that they've put in a faulty product and the end result being that actually it's proven to be a chemical issue. So I'm I'm pleased that that's the um situation because that means the pool builders are actually installing the bonding or and the electricians that are they're employing are installing the bonding correctly because we're not getting issues where we know that it's got Venic or electrolytic. I think I think uh in the last 10 or so years, I've only ever had one or two photos sent to me showing an anode that's been corroded out and questioning why it's like that. So it's actually relatively rare, or at least it's not reported to us much. But like like I said earlier, it's you know a pretty small price to pay for protection and confirmation as well that uh maybe it is chemical after all.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

So if it's chemical, it won't show on the anode?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

No, it shouldn't, no.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

No.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Not unless it's extremely acidic, then it would eat, you know, it's gonna eat everything.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yes. Yep, of course. Okay, so we've we we've actually covered a lot under that. We wanted to cover an sacrificial anodes, and we wanted to cover some electrical, we've gone into the electrical space there. But it leads us into more electrical and obviously spas, like I said before, we always have that question do I need a plumber or an electrician with a hot water service? And a spa is is a similar situation. situation. Do I need a a spa service tech or do I need an electrician? Just talk us through the safety of a spa. Like I know that's a a big issue. And prior to coming on, we've talked about electrical and we've also talked about we touched on fencing and we touched on um skimmer box and suction fittings and that sort of thing. So from a service technician's perspective, when they're going on site and seeing a spa, maybe for the first time or maybe not, what should they be looking for from a safety perspective?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah, well t I I would uh recommend everybody has a vault stick which is just a little handheld tool that when you put it close in proximity with power it lights up red. Because a lot of spas now have got metal frames underneath them. And I would always put one up to the metal frame before I touched it because you don't know if rats have been under there might have eaten through a cable that runs to well the main power incoming could have been eaten and be touching and active against the metal frame because there's quite a few spas out there where the metal frame hasn't been earthed like it's supposed to be. So you're putting yourself at risk by just diving straight in and and grabbing a hold of the frame when it could be live and it it does happen. So I'd have one of those definitely as a safeguard as you approach a spa. And other than that it's just general knowledge that you shouldn't be doing anything that you aren't qualified to do or not sure of and seek further advice get an electrician on board either employee or subcontract and you know work side by side and and profit from the the many um jobs you can do working alongside qualified tradesmen such as electricians and gas fitters that are needed for you know certain portions of the work. But one of the biggest areas we see a lot and and it comes from brand new spas that have had big pumps installed without first confirming they're allowed to be so you can have big three horsepower pumps on systems that are um electrically undersized and if you blindly just go replacing things you could be held liable down the track as well. So it's important to make sure that if it's a 10 amp system that the current ratings of things add up correctly and you're not overloading. So if you're replacing a whole electronic controller you don't go throwing in a new one with a four kilowatt heater if there's only 15 amp power there and things like that. And if you're not sure then obviously you you seek further advice from the manufacturer of that equipment an electrician ourselves somebody that that's familiar with that side of it. But it's it's not to be you know it's not something to shy away from because you can you know make good money out of replacing all of that electrical equipment but you just need that electrically licensed person to carry out the work if it's if it's not just plug and plate. So that that's probably the biggest one and the same applies to gas you know you need the licensed gas fitter for installing gas heaters and repairing them and things like that. So we find that there's quite a few people who don't want to know anything about spas because that whole aspect is out of out of their league. But it's it's not if you've got the right advice and and help behind you and tech support. So I mean not to try and sell ourselves too much but um you know we offer a lot of advice whether you buy from us or not. We've now got an app that you can download on your phone with lots and lots of information. You can just one one touch to send photos through to us and ask us questions and access to all the manuals. Thousands of manuals are on that accessible fly that app and they're an invaluable resource for everybody to have when you when you're looking at spas. So the electrical side of it's a big one because that's that's where you know all the driving force is behind how spa operates but there's lots of plumbing and other aspects to how spas operate that are quite different to a pool as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah absolutely and you touched on an important thing there and that is flow rates and and safety suctions putting on too big a pump on a spa I've seen people do it on a pool. They don't understand the the flow rate restrictions or they don't think about it. I've had a silly owner buy a two horsepower pump online to go on his pool blew up his 21 inch sand filter and it was on 40 mil pipes so you can imagine what it did to the whole the whole system. So it can happen on on spa on pools just as much as it can happen on spas. So people need to understand flow rates and and the limitations of those suction points as well which all of those and it's one of the things I I present in training all of those suction fittings by law are under Strange Standard 1926 point have the flow rates on the actual safety suctions and it's not per suction fitting which is where m a lot of people go wrong. It's actually overall isn't it like sorry it's no it's per suction fitting not overall. A lot of people think that they can divide it by the number of fittings that they've got but they can't.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

No that's right. No in in general if you've got a a system that you've determined the flow rate to be 300 litres a minute you've got to have two suctions rated at at least 300 litres a minute each or an extra one again if you if you can't I mean it starts getting technical after you uh get past that if you if two won't do the job you know if you've got really high flow rates you need more but generally speaking you have to have one more suction than what the than what the number of suctions are that will cover the flow rate. So if you had a thousand litres a minute and uh and three hundred litre a minute suctions you'd need four to cover the thousand plus an extra one. So that if one's locked the rest of them take all of the load no problem at all but yeah that's that's just one aspect of it along with ventilating skimmers and um yeah it's it's that's a whole new extra area to get into with the suctions. But but when when it comes to flow rates uh I I I really think that a lot of people would be very surprised what real flow they've got. The amount of pool vehicles that I see driving around and only exceed to have 40ml pipes trapped on the top it amazes me because 40ml does not carry much flow over any distance at all. And the amount of times we have conversations where pool equipment's 15 20 metres away I think you'd find that you would not even turn over the pool water in a day if it ran 24 hours a day. And if you put a flow meter in that's the only way you'll know what your real flow rate is in in those situations. Because the the calculations with head pressures and pump performance curves and losses based on the information from fitting suppliers and lengths of pipe and things like that that's that's all relative guesswork compared to putting a flow meter on which is that's exactly what flow you've got. We've had situations where complaints were made that heaters were supplied wouldn't work must there's not enough flow sorry there's enough flow that should be working we'd get them back here they work perfectly with 70 litres a minute and yet they weren't working on site with a two and a half horsepower pump. And it turns out they didn't have that flow at all on a two and a half horsepower pump because everything was restricted down and too far and you know wrong size pipes and things like that. So um when you're going out to to repair an installation you could be confronted with a problem that's far beyond just the pump that's failed that you're there to replace it it could be essentially unachievable to resolve a problem if the pipe are wrong. The pipe works are wrong in the in size. So it's it's difficult for a um a repairer to go in later to fix something else someone's done. And that just while we're on that that that also goes across to air blowers air blower installations on puddles nobody wants an air loop a meter from their pool because it's cosmetically hard to hide and it looks terrible but you've got to do it. If you don't put that air loop in it's really really hard to get water pushed out of the pipe without causing you know constant blower failure from overheating pushing too much pressure and just cooking themselves to death and we've seen a lot of it lately where the pipe work's just been run in a way that that causes water to trap and can never be pushed out. So it that's similar because it ends up with a 50ml pipe that effectively turns into a 25mm pipe with air trying to tumble over the water. So you can have the same problem on airbline systems as you as you do in circulation systems on pools and really pronounce obviously on spa jet systems when the lack of pressure was going to be very noticeable when the jets don't work.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Absolutely it's actually always a surprising slide when I bring up the slide in training that says I think it's uh one and I'm going by memory here, 1.8 meters uh at 1.8 meters 40 mil pipe has a maximum flow rate of 154 litres a minute.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Which is crazy when you think about your average one horsepower pump has a flow rate of about 260 litres a minute and you immediately go a one horsepower pump 260 litres a minute 40 mil pipe maximum flow rate of 154 it's yeah that's right you you might have a pump that only does 200 litres a minute but in order to do that because of the length of run you might need 100ml suction pipe and 65 return in order to allow it to operate and you don't solve that by putting a bigger pump in yourself but by putting bigger pipes in yeah absolutely it's yeah definitely a a knowledge bank in our industry that more people need to tap into um hydraulics. I've I've never done a a a pool builder's course or anything like that but I don't know how much they um they do on those courses but um it seems like not enough because it seems like an area that there is a lack of understanding on on how pipe size affects performance.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah absolutely absolutely well it was certainly something that opened my eyes and I think that like I see it all the time on Facebook posts and things like that where people put a lovely picture of their install that they're very proud of and I'm looking at it going, have you heard of a 45 degree bend? Have you heard of a sweep elbow? How many 90 bends can you fit there? And I've actually got a slide in my presentation that's got like eight 90 degree bends in a very close proximity and somebody's basically taken them all out and replaced it with um 245s and actually if I remember rightly it was actually Shane's picture that I he allowed me to share that he managed to take out eight and replace it with 245s. 890s for 245s such an in improvement in flow just by that simple thing. So just do better basically try and make those runs as short as possible try and make them as smooth as possible restrict reduce as many bends as possible. It's not difficult to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Even even having a pipe in a trench that uh is just sort of like going from side to side in the trench and isn't dead straight you've you know you can you can picture being in a water slide you'd be thrown both ways that's what's happening in the water the water itself so there's there's uh friction in a straight runner pipe just because it's not run dead straight. Even even to the point where you should cut the uh pipe with it a drop saw or something to make sure it's 100% perpendicular um rein the inside of the pipe out make sure there's no murders uh make sure it fully seats into the socket so that there's no recess in the socket at the end of the pipe all of those things uh sound like not much and they aren't much but when they add up it can make a big effect on the overall performance and it it could mean the difference between putting in a two and a half horsepower pump to dropping it down to a two horsepower pump and achieving exactly the same performance.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Well that and an energy saving for the owner as well. And I actually saw one of those very nifty burring tools that you sort of wriggle around the the end of the pipe you've just cut and they put a nice beveled edge on it. And I thought that's really quite cool.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

I hadn't seen one of those before yeah yeah there's outside ones as well so you could just twist it like a um it's a bit like an orange a little bit putting like putting an orange on top of a uh an orange squeezer yeah just like that just goes over the outside of the pipe and you can get it off pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Oh fantastic one of the things that we talked about earlier was like skimmer boxes and safe the safety of those. Now with spas uh I was saying like obviously we see the common ones, the big ones with the big openings I think they're the waterways ones gener generally that had the two cartridges inside the skimmer. But there's smaller ones what's the sort of things that people need to be aware of from a safety perspective when they're looking at a spa on site with skimmer boxes.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Okay well first of all I I would suggest that everybody in the industry should own a copy of 1926.3 Australia Absolutely because that that tells you everything you need to know about the mandatory requirements around the safety suctions and skimmer boxes for you know personal safety against entrapment um whether that be from you know hair entrapment body entrapment uh clothes being caught because of sharp edges things like that um it's really important to have that because it also points out things like the requirement to ventilate skimmer boxes um with a 315 square mil vent which equivalent just over 20 millimeter diameter hole and that's a requirement so that if somebody blocks the skimmer they won't be entrapped. And there there was a case in America a few years ago the guy didn't die but he was a massive bodybuilder and he got his chest caught up against a skimmer box that wasn't ventilated and couldn't free himself. So um there's that much suction from a from a pool pump that it's impossible for you to free yourself if there's no vent. If that vent was there it it would be like nothing you'd just be able to just pull off away from that skimmer or safety suction whatever it may be really easily. So it's very important that those are installed and check that they're installed and if you affect the flow rate of a system by changing a pump you've got an obligation to bring it up to current standards. It doesn't mean just because the the pool was built in 1980 or the spas from 1995 the standard when it was built no longer applies. If you change it you've now got to make it compliant for today and that might mean replacing safety suctions and not just the cover of the entire fitting because it's the whole fitting that's gained the approval not just the cover andor ventilating a skimmer. So the good thing on a spa with a skimmer is that most of them are associated with a safety suction. So on a single pump spa you might have a non-compliant safety suction. But in all states other than South Australia you can ventilate the skimmer and overcome that and you don't have to worry about that non-compliant safety suction because a ventilated skimmer will take the the uh the risk away which is the same as most pools that only have a skimmer and nothing else. I mentioned South Australia because they're the only state that have overruled the Australian standards to this degree of this area and they demand a safety suction on every pump. So where the rest of Australia can do just a skimmer south Australia have to have a safety suction as well. So then you would have to make sure your safety suction was compliant as well as a ventilated skimmer. So it's it's to you know it I could go on that topic with that standard for hours. There's so many areas of it that you need to know and be aware of because at the end of the day if you're the last tradesman on a job where someone ends up being seriously injured or killed, they're going to be asking questions about what you knew and what you did and why you didn't do something and you need to have those answers to not be found you know complicit in somebody's um downfall. So it's it's that standard out of all of them is the most important that everybody should have.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

So doing inspections and how they seem to understand all the regulations around fences and gates and CPL charts and and that but when it comes to 1926 point three and skimmer boxes and safety suctions they don't seem to check that off.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Well the issue is it's not even it's not even in the checklist for them to check off that's not a requirement um I don't know what regulatory body um as is responsible for you know that those requirements but they've completely missed the mark and not included 1926.3 in that and a prime example as I was saying earlier is I bought a house myself with a a pull and a spa and the spa was completely missing at safety sections and when it was inspected he looked at the barrier you know found a couple of faults we had to rectify and looks at the spa and says there's something missing there. That was the end of it. And I said to him yeah something really serious missing there that should be enough cause for you to disable a system so that the spa pump can't run because it's that dangerous you know and if that's my own spa that's happening everywhere. So as a and and I think it puts those guys at risk also because they're they're out there doing a job telling a customer that you've got a safe pool when in fact that customer now believes they have and they walked away and someone could be hurt because there is actually a problem there that wasn't noticed or addressed by someone even though their job is not to inspect that aspect they actually should know and and and should advise and you know it's uh I I think it's an area that should be addressed personally.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Well it's it you raise an interesting point because I was about to say I am not an a fence inspector, never have been. And but that title and and they are checking 1926.1 and point two where does the responsibility drop off and and start again somewhere else and then who else holds that? I know when my pool was actually inspected for compliance by a building inspector at the end of its installation or construction. They didn't actually check 1926. They checked the fencing and this was a actual completion certification. They didn't check 1926 and there was something that was of concern to me that I had raised with our landscaper when he did our pavers and that was the skimmerbox lead because I knew it didn't comply.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

So yeah well that's actually that's an issue that's interesting you've raised that because on the portable spa side of things which is obviously you know a large part of the industry now on our side is that um you know that compliance of 1926.3 being mandatory Australia wide as a requirement for that uh to be certified you know most of these far manufacturers will have to have a certification to say here you go for a for a customer that's compliant to that standard. And uh interestingly in Victoria they asked for that compliance certificate a lot and uh it's only happened and to my knowledge it's only happened in a couple of other states a couple of times even though it's an Australia wide requirement but Victoria they seem to have more of a handle on it. And it it makes it really difficult because a lot of the people who contact me about it have bought a secondhand spa and they think they're good to go only to find out there's no capability of getting certification because that spa build is gone the spa's five years old someone's got to come out and make sure that it's still assembled how it was from factory and that it is actually compliant. And the reality is who's qualified to do that you know um a hydraulics engineer uh who are going to charge thousands of dollars to certify your spa um I guess somebody who's competent who really understands the standard could do it provided they can show competence if they're ever held it held to account for it. But you know when you look at the testing requirements of that standard you've got to have a whole range of test gear and knowledge and know every brand and make of all the fittings used check the plumbing hasn't been reduced or or damaged in some way or restricted on one line and not the other things like that. So it's it's not safe for any of the listeners out there to just write up a thing saying yep I've checked that the suction covers comply. It's all good because there's a lot more to it than that that really isn't feasible. So buying we we advise people not to buy second hand if they ask us because in reality you could get caught buying this bar that you've got to throw on the tip because you you you get asked for certification and you can't provide it. So it's a it's a it's a big problem for secondhand if you've got the inspectors doing the same sort of um job that they're doing in Victoria in a lot of cases.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

And potentially then that opens up service technicians to need to ask for that compliance certificate when they're being asked to come on site and service the spa.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I think you don't that that that's sort of an area that there should be an expectation that that spa has been made compliant. However, if you see something you know is wrong then you are actually you can then become liable if you say nothing about it, do nothing. I'd advise everybody to write it down and get it to the customer in writing not verbal. Yes. Do it in writing so that if they refuse to do it you've you've sort of said this is the case. If you go back again uh fragment sake they don't have a pool fence you can put it in writing and say you um you must have a pool fence and you go back again and next time to do another service for their um water quality or what have you and the fence isn't still there you've got to start asking yourself do I continue working for this customer do I need to report it to somebody um how do I safeguard myself because I'm the one who's going to be in trouble if the neighbours kids jump in that person's far and and I'm the last professional that was there and there's no evidence that I said, you know, we've got to shut it down because you don't have a a certified barrier. So there is You can't just go, Well, it wasn't my problem in the first place. I'm just here to do the water chemistry. It becomes your problem.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

So And there was there was actually a case, uh, I think it was in Victoria, where uh a parent of a little girl who was four drowned. The little sorry, the girl drowned, the parent sued the neighbor for not maintaining their pool fence. So um which caused the little girl to be able to access it. And so yeah, one, we none of us want to have that on on our head on our shoulders or on our heads. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Uh that that that's the issue with it is is there's no one policing any of this really. Um and the unfortunate part is that it's only really seriously addressed if it gets to the coroner. So uh I personally never want to be involved in a coronal inquest as as somebody who's played a part in supplying something that's caused a problem or or what have you, you know. So um it's really important that everybody out there has um you know, they know their limitations on what they're allowed to do. They've got insurance because you know you've also got to remember that if you decide to make a few dollars by putting in doing your own electrical or gas work, for example, guess whose insurance company is not going to cover them if something goes wrong. And you lose everything. You'll lose your livelihood, you'll lose your house, you'll lose a lot. So yeah, it's not worth it. You get it get a license transmitting to do that job and make sure that you put in writing anything you see that's defective, that no matter how small it is, you should you should write it down so that you're never the one who could be held to account for it.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Yeah, that's some some really good advice. Something that we certainly we certainly stuck by. And I think you also raise an important point for us to basically stay in our lane. Do what you do do what you know, what you're qualified to do, and um when in doubt, seek advice, seek specialty trades to come in and support you to do what you need to get done. It it's not hard. You don't want to risk your livelihood and the life of somebody over that.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah, yeah. A lot of them are capable of uh running up to 32 amp power and continuing that amount of power as well. So, you know, you you could be purchasing a pack that's you know got a six kilowatt heater, which is 25 amps by itself, and a couple of pumps and a blower. And some of these some of these systems are capable of being set so everything can run simultaneously. So you could actually have a spa system running and drawing 40 amps that needs to be throttled back to 20 or 15 amps. So we we offer, particularly for gecko, we pre-program all of them. Um I would offer it for all of them. So we can pre-program packs so that when when they arrive, they're incapable of drawing too much power, which in most cases should just trip the power out and just be more of a nuisance than anything else, but could also present a fire hazard. So um, you know, having having someone that's helping you out, getting settings correct and things like that, making sure that when it gets installed electrically that it that those settings are ready to go, or uh, you know, working in conjunction with that qualified person if you're not and and get everything set right so that it runs, it knows what you've got connected to it, and it's not drawing too much power for the power supply it's on, that that gets you um 99% of the way there for all the electrical systems when you replace them. So um, you know, it's it's uh an area that you know everybody can have a finger in as long as they're working alongside someone qualified to do it.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Yeah. Very good, very good advice. Well, Adrian, as expected, you are a wealth of knowledge and it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. I hope I'm sure I know that our listeners will have got a lot out of this episode. So thank you. And of course, they can contact you where and how.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah, well, just uh spa spartex, s p-a-t-x.com.au. That's our website. And I encourage you, even if you don't want to know too much about spars uh initially, or even if you've got other sources for products, I recommend you download our app because it's it's a wealth of information, but all the manuals and uh and and easy to use if you are ordering from us as well. But particularly manuals and uh information that's that's contained within it, you're not gonna find anywhere else, especially in that much detail. So it's worth it, it costs nothing. And that's just the Sparteps app on both um Google Play and Apple.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Your cartridge sizing guide is invaluable as well. Right. Having all the all the all the top uh top closed whole thread, coarse thread. Uh it's got me out of trouble many times.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Yeah. Yeah, that's from uh that's from Magnum, our filter supplier. So yeah, we've we've condensed it into basically by code or preferably by um height. It's easier to sort of work out which filter it is if we just go down by the height that narrows it down. But yeah, uh there's like there's especially on the far side of things, there is there's well over a hundred cartridges. So um it can be pretty daunting. It's daunting enough for me to try and carry them all.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

And Adrian, will you be at Splash this year?

SPEAKER_00 49:11

We won't be exhibiting this year, but we'll I'll definitely be down there. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

But your app is a fantastic free resource for all of our listeners. So definitely, listeners, make sure you jump on that. And of course, Adrian, your wealth of knowledge is a huge resource to the industry. I know it's something that I've been very appreciative of. I knew Nick is very appreciative of. You've got me out of trouble many of time many a time by sending images on on text message or on email. So it's been truly appreciated and helped me out of a lot of trouble. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

So it's I mean, um that's part of it. I d I mean, obviously I need to make money, but I'd I'd prefer everybody in the industry is uh knowledgeable on particularly all the things that need to be. And we're happy to share, but you know, I don't uh we don't we don't hold back information just so that we can have it. It's it's available to share for everybody, and I'm happy to help anybody out either you know, over the phone or text or email, not a problem.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Well, I know many a time it's those little obscure parts that you have that no one else ever seems to be able to to locate or even be able to identify, um, let alone have in stock. And so, or many a time you've said to me, Lee, this is not available, but this is a suitable substitute, and you've been able to benefit from that.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

That's that's one of our biggest challenges at the moment, to be honest. You know, there's a lot of uh a lot of older spas pre-2010, which is essentially before the flood of um you know Asian imports. So before then, most product was Australian or American made, and uh a lot of that's aging out, you know. There is there's nobody using any of those products anymore. So we're looking for new replacements. And then you've got Chinese-made spas where you've got no idea where they've made any of the parts. So we're we're quite often, you know, having to find alternate solutions to replace components and and that sort of thing on a lot of spas now, regardless of what brand it was.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Yeah. I'm sure your warehouse is probably huge, is it?

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Yeah, yeah. Oh, we should have to pay the rent for it all.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

And and and Nick was just talking about doing stock take the other day. I'm sure yours would be massive.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Oh, look, we we do a rolling stock take. I there's no way I'd do it in one go. So we just we just checked on a regular basis. So it's usually pretty right.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Oh, that's good. All right. Well, thank you very much, listeners. I am sure you got a wealth of knowledge out of today's episode. Uh, remember, if you have any questions, whether that be for Adrian or about anything else, make sure that you drop us a line at talkingpools at gmail.com. And Brudy will dish those questions out to the most applicable podcast show host. Uh we thank you very much for your time and for joining us this week on another riveting episode. We trust that you'll join us again next week on Talking Pools Podcast Mondays down under. Until then, thank you, Adrian. Thank you, Nick.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Thank you, Sadrian, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

And listeners, we will see you or you'll hear us next week. See ya.