Heat Pumps, Inverter Technology & Building a Smarter Equipment Pad with Madimack

This week on Mondays Down Under, Lee Salisbury, Shane Sneddon, and Nick welcome Wesley Collins from Madimack for a deep dive into one of the fastest-evolving areas of the pool industry—heat pump technology.

Wesley explains the real difference between traditional on/off heat pumps and modern inverter-driven systems, how variable-speed compressors and fans dramatically improve efficiency, reduce operating costs, and make today's heat pumps quieter than ever before.

The conversation also explores one of the industry's most misunderstood topics: properly sizing a heat pump. From evaporation and pool covers to climate, water features, and pool location, you'll learn why choosing the correct heater involves far more than simply calculating pool volume.

The discussion expands beyond heating into Madimack's growing lineup of pumps, chlorinators, filters, and smart equipment. Wesley explains how inverter technology is now improving variable-speed pumps and salt chlorinators, making equipment quieter, more energy-efficient, easier to retrofit, and smarter than previous generations.

Whether you're a pool professional, builder, retailer, or homeowner looking to better understand modern pool equipment, this episode delivers practical information that can help save energy, reduce operating costs, and improve overall pool performance.

In this episode:

•  Why inverter heat pumps outperform traditional on/off models 
•  How heat pumps actually transfer heat from ambient air 
•  Proper heat pump sizing and the biggest mistakes installers make 
•  Why pool covers are the single biggest factor in heating efficiency 
•  The effects of evaporation, water features, and infinity edges on heat loss 
•  Installation considerations including airflow and ventilation requirements 
•  Why today's heat pumps are dramatically quieter 
•  Variable-speed pump technology and AI-driven flow management 
•  Smart chlorinator technology and adaptive chlorine production 
•  Retrofit-friendly equipment design for service professionals 
•  What's next in pool equipment innovation 

Whether you're replacing equipment, designing a new pool, or simply want to understand where pool technology is heading, this episode offers valuable insight from one of the industry's leading manufacturers. 

Listen, Subscribe & Share

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the Talking Pools Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and leave us a review. Your support helps us continue bringing the pool industry's best educators, innovators, and professionals together each week.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, good whatever time of the day it is that you are listening to us. It is time for Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pools podcast. And we are so grateful to have you join us today. Of course, my name is Lee. I am the pull shop coach, and I am joined by my wonderful colleagues in crime, Shane Sten from Auckland, New Zealand. Hey Shane, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Very goodly, thank you. And yourself?

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Very well. Very well. How is the service world going at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Uh it's a little bit up and down at the moment. We are peak, peak peak winter. Um, although the weather has been really nice, so it's it's steady. It's still steady at the moment, so I can't complain.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Is it a bit of a warm winter in New Zealand too? Because we certainly we have dry snowfields at the moment, no snow. So it's not looking good for the skiers. No, not at all. Um, and of course, we're joined in sunny Brisbane. I assume it's sunny up there, Nick. Hey Nick, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Yeah, good thanks, Lee. Yeah, 26 degrees today. So a nice winter's day.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

I I saw your business social post today. It's got kids swimming in the pool and it says, Is this winter in Brisbane? It was very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Yes, no, it's a it's a beautiful day. Lots of people swimming, surprisingly, today.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

That's good. Means business doesn't slow down too much. But today we have a special guest with us. We have Wesley from Maddymac. Wesley, whereabouts in the country are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Uh currently based in Sydney, Australia.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Ah, very good. Very good. So we've got two new South Welshmen, one Queenslander and a New Zealander. And we've got two Englishmen and two Australians.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

So you're wearing Marone, the state of Oregon next week.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I will not be wearing it next week. We'll not be wearing it next week. But Wesley, you're joining us today to talk about Muddy Mac and the products that you offer. And in particular, um, well, my interest lays with the heat pump side of things. But um please tell our listeners a bit about yourself and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Thanks, Lee. Um so Wesley Collins, originally born in Manchester, uh, UK. Um my background is heating, ventilation, air conditioning, electrical, and plumbing. So I did a triple apprenticeship as I left school and then did a degree in renewable energy. Um so basically then transitioned over to Madimac, where we specialized in commercial heating, cooling, and refrigeration. Um that was around 12 to 15 years ago, 12 years ago. Um and about around eight years ago, transitioned some of that technology from heat pumps and chillers in commercial environments into pools, and over the years developed into a full range of products to uh suit the pool industry. So happy to be here and uh explain what we do and how we do it.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

So you went straight um into working for Mating Mac after your uni degree or uh no, um I've actually been around the the world quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I spent two years in Germany building um automated pneumatic machinery, um six months in Italy, and I've been in Australia now for 12 years. So I came um as a um I was actually headhunted from the UK uh at the time uh to come and join Maddymax Journey um and brought my skills to to help.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Well, with your knowledge and experience, I'm not surprised that they headhunted you. That's uh a great arsenal of education and experience to bring to the table when you're developing products like heat pumps and uh energy efficient equipment, that's for sure. So um my particular interest um was actually in heat pumps, and something that I get asked or see a lot of people talk about is the sizing of heat pumps, um, inverter technology and COPs, things like that. So, can you enlighten our listeners on all things heat pump? Let's go for it.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

All right, let's start. Um so probably probably the the main difference is on-off versus inverter. What inverter actually means it's variable variable speed. Inverter is the technology, variable speed is actually what the outcome of that technology does. So that means you can run the heater at anywhere between 20% all the way up to 100%. So inverter technology, um, it will actually run at 100% until it gets very close to the temperature, which is the set point. When it hits that temperature, it reduces the speed and becomes a much more efficient process of absorbing the heat from the surrounding air to actually transfer it into the pool. When the heat this uses something called um uh not Moore's Law, I've forgotten the uh technology name now. Um basically fluid dynamics and aerodynamics through air and the refrigerant process is more efficient because it's running slower through the system. Um so at 50% running speed of a of an inverter heat pump, similar to an inverter variable speed pool pump, you'll save around 60 to 70% on your energy savings compared to running full speed all the time. Wow. Um that's the core technology of variable speed inverter technology.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

So you talk about variable speed with the pump, the heat pump, and we call it a heat pump, people struggle with this, but it's actually not pumping the water anywhere, is it? It relies on an external pump to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

It is pumping refrigerant around the system, though. That's the difference. So it so one of the core um components is the compressor, um, which actually compresses the refrigerant, which then turns it into a high temperature heat. That then goes through the heating coil, goes through an expansion valve, which then releases uh the cold and then goes back into the compressor and keeps the cycle pumping round, and that's where you get the heat pump terminology from.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Fantastic. I've never actually quite understood that. So thank you for explaining that. So when you talk about speed, you're actually talking about the speed at which that pump is actually pushing the refrigerant around.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Correct. There's actually two components which can be variable speed. You have the compressor, which is managing the refrigerant flow, and then you've actually got the airflow, the amount of air which is being pushed through the heat exchanger. So, in concepts, what the heat how a heat pump actually works, um it's actually blowing warm ambient air through a heat exchanger, absorbing that heat, and then converting that into a high temperature through the compression and then into the pool. So both the fan motor and the compressor can be both variable speed to match the maximum efficiency.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Fantastic. So it actually takes heat pumps for those that aren't aware how a heat pump works, it takes the heat out of the ambient air and basically transfers it through to the water by the means that you just explained.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

So even at zero degrees, um, there's still a lot of heat in the air. Just humans, we do we feel the cold, but you can still absorb the heat from that air. Um Kelvins is absolute zero, so zero Kelvins. So just to put that into perspective, uh, zero degrees is over 200 Kelvins, so there's a lot of heat still in the air. Wow. We just we just don't feel it as um as humans.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

It's really interesting. I find I find this stuff quite fascinating. So when you're sizing a heat pump, what are the important things that our listeners need to be aware of and think about?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Okay, so the biggest one uh is actually heat loss. Um it's actually replenishing the heat which is lost from the pool either on a daily basis or over a week if you've actually not had your heater switched on. And evaporation actually accounts for nearly 90% of that heat loss. So always make sure be aware if you are using pool covers, you're gonna have a much um lower energy bill and you're gonna get more efficiency from your equipment. If you are using a pool cover as well, you can actually sometimes have a smaller heat pump, which will actually maintain your pool equipment. So pool cover is one of the biggest things because of evaporation. Um, and then you need to take into consideration how long do you want to swim it? Are you going to swim seven months of the year? I'm sure Shane is not doing 12 months of the year. Uh, but Nick, I think you might be doing 12 month swimming, especially yesterday when it was 26 degrees.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

So Nick will probably want to cool it through winter uh through summer.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Well, that's the advantage of heat pumps. So heat pumps can reverse cycle as well uh to actually cool pools, and we've seen a big demand not only on pool cooling, but the industry is cold plunge pools are starting to take shape. Um, so new technology can actually um have higher temperatures and lower temperatures. But yeah. So probably the four key components pool temperature. Um, generally that can vary from 26 degrees all the way to 30 degrees. Um, with small children, 30 degrees is generally slightly better to keep them in the pool and keep them occupied. Um, the size of the pool, the location of the pool, and that's it. Three. Cover. What's that, sorry? And cover? Did we mention it? Oh, and the in the pool cover, yeah. But the three ones Yeah, yeah. So the the pool blanket is uh the pool cover.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Um What about Lee's favorite, the infinity edge?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Now that is always a tricky one. It's um water features because you've actually got water pushing through the air, causing turbulence, surface agitation, um, wind, um, features definitely impact the heating requirement significantly. Yeah. Um we always try and recommend, especially if you're heating 12 months of the year, to be able to separate uh water features so they're not continuously running all day. Um keep the circulation on the trough or other water features for a short period of time to recirculate the water. But generally, if you're heating it, try and keep it switched off and you're gonna save um save energy for heating.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Infinity edge pools are notoriously hard to blanket anyway. So um you've got to basically tie off the blanket to stop it floating over the edge if so you've got that contending issue as well. Do you find um the actual structure of the pool or the surface of the pool makes it much difference to the actual heat retention? Like if it's concrete versus vinyl versus fiberglass?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

So surface um heat loss is around 5%. Um it's very minimal compared to the mac to the actual uh sizing, uh the actual material being used. The biggest one is evaporation. Surface agitation creates more evaporation as well. So actually, if you've got more people using the pool, you will see an impact on um on heat, heat loss. So commercial pools, swim sensors, all these pools which actually have higher higher higher load bathing loads, will always have higher heating demands as well. Pronunciation. We actually have uh a heating performance guarantee on our heat pumps if you use our online pool heating calculator. Um so it actually takes the guesswork out of this, uh, and we've actually now optimized it so you have um the option to feed your run times as well. So because of the solar industry being so prominent in Australia and batteries as well now and free. Yeah, PV solar. So we've actually got a drop-down box now which allows you to have maximum running times of eight hours per day, so you can actually optimize your uh your energy consumption, matching it with solar as well. But if you if you use the calculator, it gives you a recommendation of the heater based on your pool, your location, uh, your temperature, um, and your runtime. If you use a pool cover or you don't use a pool coverer, then it will give you the exact heater that you need, and that will guarantee to heat your pool.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

And uh I think there's a bit of a push at the moment, isn't there? The government's giving us a couple of hours of free power in the middle of the day. So everybody's gonna be running their heat pumps in the middle of the day to make the most of it. Um, so can you explain to us the difference between the sizing or the maybe even the power um connection requirements of, say, an on-off heater, as you called them, versus an inverter heater? What do we need to be aware of there?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Uh so from a power supply requirement, they are similar from an input power perspective, but you do get a little bit more output. The key difference there is they are soft start heaters, so the inverter. Um so it's a little bit less strenuous on your power supply. So you might have noticed it previously when a big oven might switch on and the the old lights used to flicker in your house. That was a big demand from an on-off heater starting up potentially um to heat your pool. That doesn't happen with uh inverter because it's a soft start. It roll it slowly, it ramps up to 100%.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Right. Okay. So what is the advantage then of an inverter heat pump over an on-off?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Um probably so there's a lot more technology which allows for higher efficiency. Um, so electronic expansion valves are much easier to put into inverter technology because it needs to ma to optimize the refrigerant flow. Um, you've got variable speed. So every 10% of reduction of output, you actually get the cube saving in energy. So cube law, every 10% is the cube, which means maximum energy savings. Um they're quieter, you can set different settings so um you don't need to run them at 100% all the time. If you want to have swimming in the morning, for example, you can run the heater at night at a lower speed to maintain pool temperature without causing too much noise pollution overnight time as well. So it's about the settings and the and the energy efficiency, which are the probably two standout um features.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

And noise is a big thing because I actually only was having this conversation in the last couple of days. So I've been delivering training in Sydney uh for IR learning. We've had the pool school fundamentals on day one, and day two was advanced pool chemistry and storage and handling of dangerous goods. But I was having conversations with builders, and it was like, what is the average size of a swimming pool now? Like that you're building and installing. And of course, the big thing is land size is a lot smaller. The backyard size is a lot smaller. So we're finding that the average, it used to be bygone years, the average swimming pool was around 50,000 litres. Now it's actually getting less. One builder said the last three pools that he's built have been 19,000 litres each. So we're dealing with smaller lounge spaces, which means the neighbors are right on the fence. And then noise really comes into play. So um having the inverter technology be able to heat your pool with less noise is hugely advantageous.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, we went we we we saw this a long time ago, um, especially in Sydney as being our core market where plots were getting smaller and smaller. Um, and that's when we released the Elite uh V4 heater. Um so one of the key things on that, it's got a 3D airflow design for the air to go through. Um so it needs lower ventilation, and it also has lower noise levels because of the um centrifugal fan design that we've incorporated into it. So it's actually the one.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

They're they're unbelievably quiet. So I've installed a few of them, and yeah, they are really, really quiet compared to some of the other brands that we see out there. Um, yeah, you need to double check if they're even running.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yeah. It's impressive. If you've not had one, it's uh it's uh is definitely uh an eye-opener of the noise levels which can be achieved with the right design of airflow and compressor and variable speed technology. It's good.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

That's quite an interesting point you were talking about there, Wesley, because I've seen it in the past where other pool companies have installed a heat pump not using the same model as the V4, the standard where the fan is at the front of the heat pump and it directs front and back, but they've installed it in a very narrow uh confined area. And when you see, you can you can just see the um I guess it's the compressor, the evaporation from the compressor is just working, it's just going over time, and it seems to struggle, the pool seems to struggle to actually get up to temperature as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So the reason for that, and I think I mentioned it earlier, um, ventilation, uh sorry, it needs air to go through the system. Um, so traditional, especially the on-off heaters, they need, and the front fans need at least one and a half meters from the front because of the high power of the fan, blowing the air out, it actually bounces off the wall and goes into the back of the heater. Now, what that happens, it creates a circulation of air, and it's getting colder and colder and colder. So it's not getting fresh air anymore. So that's why you can't install a heater indoors. It will create um any glue in that area if you put it indoors. So ventilation is super important with heat pumps. Um, with the Elite V4, because it's got the 3D airflow, it actually has a lower speed of what the air comes out of the heater because it's got three different directions. So it's a lot harder for it to go into the back of the heater where it absorbs the heat and it actually disperses in a more evenly manner.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

You've just made every pool technician unhappy there, Wesley, because now they've got nowhere cold to stand in the middle of summer. It was guaranteed to be the one place you could cool off is standing in front of the heat pump fan in summer. Um, but you raise a really important thing there, and that is ventilation and having that at the allowed space and people not actually reading the installation manual properly and the or the installation guide and making those allowances, making those space, or worse yet, the builder or the technician installs it correctly, and then the homeowner goes, I'm gonna build a lovely box around all of my equipment and enclose it all so that I can't see it, not knowing that they're actually then creating themselves a very inefficient inefficient heating system. So big problem, I s I would imagine. I see it posts on Facebook, I'm so sure everybody does, where you go, ooh. So I have have seen it myself in a local area where a pool builder installed a heater, did it all properly, and then um a tradesman came along and built a lovely pretty box, but um the ventilation um they put had slats, but still even within close proximity, while that is allowing some airflow, the air that's flowing out of the heater was still hitting those slats and would reverberate back.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Unless you have unless you have a sealed system to actually push it out of a

SPEAKER_03 22:01

And that can be smart. Like the commercial plant rooms, you see, they use the the heat from the plant room, from the the equipment in that room to actually provide um heat to the heater using that warmer air, and then they expel it out via um ducting and and whatnot. So that can be quite a smart way of doing it. But also placement of heater, like making sure you put it on the sunny side of the house if you can. Makes the makes the world of difference, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Absolutely. I mean UV uh heats up the surrounding area. It does it w ever every percentage counts. Um so if you've got warmer air, warmer surrounding of the of the equipment, it's gonna help. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yep, for sure. So branching into the other products that Madding Mac has, because Madding Mac no longer is just and hasn't been for a while, no longer just a heat pump manufacturer. You actually have, and I have to say here, I'm sorry, you have the most butt ugly pump I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

That sounds quite offensive, but you'll be surprised. It's either a love or hate relationship with that pump. Um is from an engineering perspective. I'll give you some details of why it's like that. But it's like uh it's like Vegemag. You either love it or you hate it. Um and we we get mixed reactions all the time. Um but but that actual case in there, it's actually got uh sound-reducing um properties. So the actual that's why it's slightly thicker on the wet end than than what you'd actually see with other pumps, uh, because it's a slightly thicker material to absorb noise from the air from the turbulence within that within the water hydraulics.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Well, I'll finish. Oh, I'm in the love camp.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

I'll put a couple in for those, especially those uh needing really quiet. Um so maybe the heater runs all night or something like that in a commercial setting and they just want super, super quiet. So I'm I'm like Vegimite and I like the pumps.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Well, I have to say, like I have heard great things about the pump. So performance-wise, exceptional, style-wise, I'm on the questionable page with that one. So but as long as it does the job, let's face it, who cares what it looks like? Um, at least it's not some weird colour. Like Paul Right had green everything. Their pumps weren't green, but their filters were green, and it's like green. Okay, well, green and pools, and not usually what you want to see around your pool is green, is it? Anyway, I digress. Um so you're also doing what other products? Are you doing pumps?

SPEAKER_00 24:51

So So we've got a full line of products, uh put all centered around efficiency, connectivity, and uh optimization of the installation requirements. Uh so starting at the pump, full line of pumps uh with excellent hydraulic performances, uh six-star MEPS ratings on all of the equipment and super quiet as well. So that's uh that was a direct focus again. Noise, efficiency and performance. Um, and the pumps come with a five-year warranty as well. So um that's a massive win. Um and that comes from some of the optimization on RPMs and speed and control and efficiency. Um, and then we go into the filter, then into the heater, and then into uh the chlorinator as well. So full pad equipment set um end-to-end.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

And so the chlorinators, is that a recent addition to the group?

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Uh the chlorinator, it I think we started on that project probably five years ago with the first release three years ago. So it's um it's been in market for a long time already. Um probably one of the key differentiators is um it's technically inverter technology within the chlorinator. Um and the what one of the main benefits of inverted technology in a chlorinator is managing the power, the voltage, the amps, because we can read all different parts of the electrical system. We can make adjustments to the output. So, for example, even in low salt conditions, we can increase amps or volts to actually maintain as much chlorine production as possible, or the opposite as well. So if you've got a 6,000 or 7,000 parts per million, you've accidentally put in too much salt into your pool. Um, it actually reduces the volts and reduces the amps to maintain chlorine production without burning out the cell and without burning out the power supply. So that's why one of the advantages of how we can provide extended warranties is because we are managing the electrical consumption end-to-end and controlling it.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

So no more going out on overload on chlorinate as a on your brand anyway.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

That's right. And that was the older on-off. Um, just it was either on or off. And that's when you had high salt in in your pool there, it would actually pull too many amps and burn out the um the power supply.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Uh, because we can how low will it run? How low will that salt level run?

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Okay, let's let's clarify something here. Salt or TDS, is it a conductivity meter or a reagent test?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

TDS.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

It's a con so it's TDS.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah. Yeah. Um so yeah, it's a we we we don't criticize on minerals and magnesium. Um TDS is um the conductivity will will always um produce the chlorine. Um we re we recommend anywhere between 1200 and 6,000 on our technical sheets. It does go a little bit further on either ends of that spectrum, but we start to re don't recommend to go much lower than uh 1200, just it starts to impact the maximum chlorine production that can be created. And over 6,000, you really don't want anything else in that pool which can be corroded by over 6,000 and 10,000 um parts per million.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, so 1200 to 6,000 ppm.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Okay. And um the length of warranty on the cell is that on hours or years, or how do you do yours?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, so 10,000 hours uh and four years on the power supply.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Uh-huh. And does your chlorinator have the ability, does it continue the flow of the pump but shut off the chlorinating cell production, like give it a moment in time so that it's not stopping the flow straight away? Like you know what I'm referring to.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

So you mean you mean a pump overrun?

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yes, yeah, pump overrun, so that it continues the flow while the cell's not producing to stop that scale formation on the cell.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

It has a 30-second um push out from the pump.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

There's a couple of other things that I really like about it. Um it does retrofit uh a number of popular chlorinators out there. So um it can just bolt straight in, which is pretty handy if you don't have any technicians that can plumb in. Um the other thing is that it's got an integrated MJ box, if you wanted to talk about that, because I've used that uh a fair few times as well with the integration between all the Many Mac products.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, that's the that's been a big winner uh this year. Um so just to explain what what this is, it's basically a way to have the pump run without the chlorinator being producing chlorine from the heater. So especially in the winter months when you need longer, more heating, but you need less chlorine. Um, if the heater demand still requires the pump to run, it can actually force the power to the pump to actually make it run without producing chlorine. So it's a heat demand overrun built into the chlorinator.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Just makes it so much more efficient.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah. We have overruns on the pump on the heater as well. Um, so when the heater goes off, similar to the chlorinator, it doesn't just switch the pump off immediately. Um the heater is actually a little bit longer to reduce some of the temperature within um within the the heater itself, it'll actually run for about one to two minutes to make sure that all of the heat is absorbed into the pool.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Very smart technology there in all of those products. And I'm seeing I'm seeing the consistency, reduction in noise, reduction in um energy, increased efficiency.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Um connectivity, what Nick said there about the simplicity on retrofits, so the pump and the chlorinator both retrofit um a lot of the pumps in the market, um, not just in Australia, in in the USA as well. So we've uh obviously got a full pump range in the USA, which does other retrofit capabilities as well. So it's one of the things that I push for um on the product development side. So these couple of things is service and support, so spare parts, just being easily being able to access some of the equipments from a service. Some of my history on air conditioning systems was pretty painful in the in the UK in the dead of winter when people needed their heating. So I know the importance of easy maintenance. Um yeah, and then the retrofit is obviously speed on site, which benefits the customers uh because it retrofits you could have you could have um one pump on your vehicle, and you know it's gonna fit 50% to 60% of the time. So having one spare there, you can always do a quick swap out.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

And the the pump question, uh or speaking of pumps, leads us into the question of your variable speed pumps. And I know, Shane, this was something of particular interest to you.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah, this was um it was an article in ACLA magazine in the US. I think it was last month from memory. Um I had a read of the article, and there in this article they were saying that as technology is moving, the advancements in variable speed pumps are moving, so it seems like we're moving away from the um the liters per minute um flow rates and moving more into a bit of an AI era as well, because your pumps have AI built in from memory from so on some of the pumps. Yep. And it would it would measure the flow rate rather than the actual litres per minute.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah, so so we actually moved away from RPM um five years ago. Uh first of all, it can be confusing for people to understand RPM. What is 3,450 revolutions per minute? What does that actually what does that mean? It's so hard to and then so and it's also impacted by the impeller size, the hydraulics. It doesn't actually tell you anything of what the actual pump is doing. Um and one of the reasons with the advancements in variable speed inverter technology in pumps, um, one of the things which the impeller size in particular, you could never have a very large impeller size because that fast startup when the power came on would actually damage the shaft. It would actually put a lot of pressure on the electronics and the capacitors of on-off pumps. Now, similar to a big snowball, just for example, if you run as fast as you can and just hit the snowball, it's not going to move. But if you actually push it slower, it will keep on moving and you can you can start the um the ball rolling. That's the similar with variable speed technology and um impellers. So you can actually start it just a little bit slower and then it actually kicks in. Um so you're not putting so you're putting less pressure on the electrical system. That means you can now have bigger impellers which maintain the same amount of flow at a lower RPM. Now, a lower RPM means less energy consumption, and it also means um less noise, less wear and tear. Um so your mechanical seal inside is not going to burn out as quickly. Like so just maintaining and balancing a bit more of a um a balanced system for a pump.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

So better filtration too, because the water's flowing slower through the filter.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

That's right. And probably just to quickly touch on the so the AI is actually auto-inverter. So this is actually going higher and lower on variable speed to maintain a flow rate. So the way it actually does this, again, it's it's all about managing the electrical system, managing the voltage, managing the amps. So we can actually tell how much water is going through by fluctuations in voltage and amps to give an understanding of actually what is happening with the water, even without pressure sensors. The technology's come so far now where you can actually, there's algorithms built in there to go, okay, we're doing 2,500 RPM, and these are the amounts of amps that we're drawing. This would indicate X amount of head pressure, which would then indicate a potential flow rate based on that impeller size. So it's there's a lot, there's a lot of uh algorithms in the background, but with the technology and managing that that electrical control system, there's so much opportunity and energy savings and connectivity, and actually maintaining a perfect pool.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

So your heater has an inverter, your pump has an inverter, your chlorinator has an inverter. Everybody gets an inverter.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

It's the future. Inverters been around for a long time in multiple other types of equipment. Your vacuum cleaners can be inverters on different speeds. Um air conditioning was one of the first things to come in. Um inverter technology has been around for probably 30 years now. Um it was just a little bit slower to move into the pool industry than some other industries, but now it's it's there and it will not be going away very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

The only thing we can't stick it in is a filter.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Not yet. Let's figure that one out. That's next.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Do you have filters in your range?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Oh, so we yeah, we've got um full line of cartridge filters and media filters. Um we are looking at some special innovations in that area. Um, it's probably an area that hasn't really been innovated too highly over the over the years. Um, but we're looking at again easy maintenance, even for the consumer, and balancing uh the cleaning cycles and actually just trying to optimize it in a couple of different ways. So watch this space because it won't be too long.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Um for our US listeners, where um where is do you know where MADIMAC is available in the US or how they can get their hands on it?

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Oh, absolutely. So we're so we're nationwide. Um we supply through um a lot of the buying groups. Um we our head office is over in Florida. Uh we've got a partnership with Garmans in in Florida, who do exceptionally well over there, and new partnerships coming around the corner, all over the place. So uh UAG, carecraft can all be purchased, can purchase the Maddymac equipment. Um we've got two warehouses, one in Arizona, um, and sorry, three now. Uh we've got one in South California, one in Arizona, and one in Florida.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

So did Mady Mac actually originate in Australia or did it originate somewhere else?

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Yeah, so Maddymac is uh probably just a bit of background. It's uh it's a family-run business. Um so the the the founder's daughters are actually called Madison and Mackenzie, and that's where the name Maddymac comes from.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Um good parents there.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

That's right. He has a third, he has a third third child who got left out there, so I'm sure he's not happy about it. But um yeah, it's uh um uh founded here in Sydney, Australia.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Oh, fantastic. Well, it's great to see an Australian company doing so well. Because I know the reason why I asked about availability in the US is because I know it is a quite a common brand, or a lot of people in the industry in the pool and spa service and and retail space and and building space are aware of the name of Maddy Mac. Um, but I just thought for our US listeners we'd share that. But of course, Matty Mac is available in every state in Australia. Um, you've got representatives all over the place, so I'm sure um they can obviously jump on your website and find their nearest person to reach out to.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Well, thank you very much, Wesley, for joining us. It's been quite insightful into your product range and into heat pumps in particular. Um it's it's been quite interesting. Boys, did you have anything to ask or question on before we finish off for the day?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

I'd encourage anyone to uh to to jump on board and and try some of the heaters. I've sort of been installing them now since the the V3, um, which was a fantastic product, and now the V4. And I wonder what's coming with the V5, how much more you can squeeze out of it. Um, but yeah, I said they're great heater, super performance, super quiet, um, and so all customers have been happy with them.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yeah, thank you, Nick. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

All right. Well, thank you very much, listeners. Thank you, Wesley, for joining us today. It's been great. Um, listeners, if you've got any questions, if there's any topic suggestions, please send them in to talkingpools at gmail.com and Rudy will um deal those out to the most applicable podcast show host. Anyway, thank you for joining us. We wish you a great week ahead. And until next week, thanks for listening. Bye guys.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Thank you.