The Problems No Pool Pro Wants to Admit Exist | Carrie Dibrell, Service Industry News

This week on Talking Pools, Rudy sits down with Carrie Dibrell, publisher of Service Industry News, for an in-depth conversation about the state of the swimming pool service industry, why education matters more than ever, and the responsibility pool professionals carry every single day. 

The discussion begins with an update on the ongoing issues surrounding the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, including statements from both Rhino Linings and Atlantic Industrial Coatings regarding the localized coating failures. Rudy explains the technical questions that remain unanswered, particularly surrounding manufacturer recoat windows and surface preparation, before shifting the conversation back to the professionals who keep pools operating safely every day. 

Carrie shares the remarkable story behind Service Industry News' annual Homeowner Water Safety & Drowning Prevention Edition, a publication specifically designed for service technicians to pass along to their customers. What began as a challenge issued by the National Drowning Prevention Alliance has grown into one of the industry's most effective public education tools. Together, Rudy and Carrie discuss how pool professionals can become the bridge between technical service and homeowner safety while also creating additional value for their businesses. 

The conversation explores some of today's biggest challenges facing service companies, including homeowners purchasing equipment online and expecting professionals to install it, declining profit margins, technician retention, employee training, and the increasing need for affordable education for new technicians. Carrie explains why Service Industry News has remained focused on the service technician for nearly four decades and why education continues to be the number one reason readers engage with trade publications. 

Rudy and Carrie also dive into:

•  The changing role of trade publications in a digital world 
•  Why technician education is the industry's greatest investment 
•  Electrical safety and the need for more service-specific training 
•  Pool chemical incidents and preventing feeder accidents 
•  Why every service professional should understand their legal responsibilities 
•  The growing concerns surrounding Airbnb and short-term rental pools 
•  Swimply pools and commercial pool regulation 
•  Industry myths that refuse to die—including acid columns, cyanuric acid, phosphates, and black algae 
•  Why chloramines remain one of the most misunderstood subjects in swimming pool chemistry 
•  The importance of testing beyond just free chlorine and pH 
•  Why continual education is essential as science evolves 

As always, Rudy mixes technical discussion with humor, industry commentary, and a healthy dose of Gen X sarcasm while reminding listeners that behind every clean, safe swimming pool is a dedicated service professional whose work often goes unnoticed. 

In This Episode

•  Reflecting Pool coating update 
•  Rhino Linings and Atlantic Industrial Coatings statements 
•  Service Industry News' drowning prevention initiative 
•  Educating homeowners about pool safety 
•  Technician training and workforce development 
•  The challenge of online equipment sales 
•  Electrical safety for pool professionals 
•  Chemical feeder failures and liability 
•  Airbnb and Swimply pool safety 
•  Pool industry myths vs. modern science 
•  Chloramines and indoor pool air quality 
•  Why education remains the industry's greatest asset 

Resources Mentioned

• Service Industry News – Free subscription for pool service professionals 
•  Homeowner Drowning Prevention Special Edition 
•  Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool rehabilitation discussion 
•  Pool service education and technician safety initiatives 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Friday. I'm Rudy Stankowitz. This is the Talking Pools Podcast and Pool Service Pros. Do we have a show for you? I want to start this one with a question for Atlantic Industrial Coatings. I reached out to Rhino Liners earlier this week regarding the product peeling up from the floor of the reflecting pool. They got back to me on June 22nd with a statement, which has now also been shared to their website. Let me read you what they sent to me. Rhino Linings is aware of reports regarding localized areas of finished coat separation within portions of the Washington, D.C. Reflecting pool rehabilitation project.

SPEAKER_12 0:40

Based on information provided to us by the project team, the condition is limited to isolated areas of the finished layer and does not affect the underlying waterproofing membrane.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

The project stakeholders are aware of the condition and corrective actions have been identified. As the material manufacturer, Rhino Linings continues to support the project team as requested. Questions regarding the project execution or site activities should be directed to the project owner or contractor. That is from Pierre Gagnon, who's the president and CEO of Rhino Linings Corporation. I did also reach out then to Atlantic Industrial Coatings and did not get a return phone call, but I did see that they have since posted up on their website a statement. And I'm going to read that to you. It says Atlantic Industrial Coatings in conjunction with the U.S. Park Service has identified some areas in the reflecting pool that require repairs.

SPEAKER_12 1:32

These areas are a very small part of the massive seven-acre project and do not indicate a failure of the liner. These repairs cannot be made until the pool is drained.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

As soon as it's feasible for the park, the pool will be drained and AIC will be back to make those needed repairs as part of the warranty. With this said, I do have a question because I did pull the TDS on the 406 epoxy that they did use on this job as waterproofing.

SPEAKER_12 1:57

And my question for Atlantic Industrial Coatings is this Can you confirm that all areas of the Rhino 406 epoxy primer were top coated with Pipeliner 5000 within the manufacturer's specified 24-hour recoat interval?

SPEAKER_02 2:12

If any areas exceeded that interval, what surface preparation or repriming procedure was used before the top coat was applied? The answer to those two questions will confirm exactly what I believe has been going on. And that is all I'm going to say about the reflecting pool because it has definitely got enough attention. Everybody wants AI now. AI for water chemistry, AI for service routes, AI for equipment diagnostics, AI for customer management, AI for scheduling, AI for marketing. Fan fucking tastic. Wonderful. Amazing. The customers still won't empty their goddamn skimmer basket. We've created artificial intelligence. We are still losing to leaves. Then you've got builders. God bless the builders. Builders are the only people on earth who can stand in front of a muddy hole and convince somebody that they're looking at paradise. That's not construction. That's witchcraft. A builder points at dirt and says, Imagine a luxury resort. The customer says, I can see it. I point at dirt and see dirt, which is why I'm not rich. After spending $250,000 on the pool, the customer asks, So I feel we don't need chlorine, right? Every builder in America just experienced chest pain all at the same exact moment. The American Heart Association is currently studying it. The industry is getting smarter, problems dumber. Then you've got acquisitions. Investors buying service companies, left and right. Companies buying software, software buying analytics, analytics buying data. Everybody's buying everybody. The pool industry is starting to sound like a soap opera. Meanwhile, somewhere a pool guy is still fixing a pump with a screwdriver he bought during the Clinton administration, and he's outperforming all of them. Then you've got trade associations. I love trade associations. Every announcement sounds like 12 attorneys wrapped in an elevator. We are pleased to announce an industry forward strategically collaborative initiative regarding stuff. Nobody talks like that. You know what pool guys say? The damn thing broke. That's the entire report. Done. Meeting adjourned. And that's why I love this business. Every year we get smarter, better equipment, better chemistry, better software, better diagnostics, better automation, better data. And every year, Water looks at all of our innovation and says, God bless the pool pro. Welcome to Friday. I'm Rudy Stankwitz. This is the Talking Pools Podcast and Pool Service Pros. Do we have a show for you? This topic, this subject, this guest, this publication is geared 100% to the pool service professional. Let me introduce to you our guest really quick. I don't want to delay it any longer. I have Miss Carrie DeBrell with Service Industry News.

SPEAKER_08 7:52

Hi, Rudy. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

So you're doing well? You said you're up in Italy for this one.

SPEAKER_08 7:59

Yes, I am in Italy.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Good.

SPEAKER_08 8:01

It's beautiful here.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

It is an absolutely gorgeous country. I remember one of the things that stuck out when I went to Italy was at at least in Rome when I was in that area, the public swimming pools, they were all set up with this arch above the entranceway. And at the top of the arch was a shower head. And you could not get into that pool area without being sprayed down. There was just no way to get in without passing through the running water. And I thought that was absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_09 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Because we can't get people to shower here. That's right. They shower when they get out. I think they have this theory that I don't I don't care if my stench gets on you. I just don't want your stench on me. I think that's the angle they shoot from. I know Carrie has a couple of things she wants to talk about. I have a thing, oh I have a couple of things, but one thing I really want to put a huge emphasis on, and I think it came out the beginning of May, if I'm not incorrect. It's the issue that they put together that Carrie puts together for you to just send out to homeowners with a whole bunch of drowning prevention methods, techniques, barriers, things to look for. Carrie, when did you start doing that?

SPEAKER_08 9:16

We started that about 10 years ago. We were invited to the NDPA conference and in Arizona. And uh the gal that was running the show at the time, I can't remember her name, maybe it was Nadine. She asked us to join hands. I think she was the founder of the NDPA. And she asked us every everybody to join hands and close your eyes and come up with some sort of some sort of something that you could that we could all do to aid in the prevention of of drowning. Just one, just one idea. And that we are all responsible to come up with one thing as we are all members in the aquatics industry. And I thought, well, I've got a newspaper. I have readers, but those readers aren't necessarily the guys that need to care. The people that need to care are the homeowners, but the readers can connect to the to the homeowners. Let's publish a newspaper to give to the homeowners and we'll get it to them through our service technicians. And so we printed 50,000 of them and mailed mailed all of our we were still in print at the time. We mailed excess materials to all of our service readers throughout the country, asking them to give the issues to their homeowner clients. And they did it willingly. They love doing it. And then when we went digital, it was far less uh difficult, way easier. And they usually include it with their billing. And now that we're online, anybody can get it.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Just send the link to the inboards.

SPEAKER_08 10:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

That's fantastic. What a super thing to do. That's fantastic. I'll tell you what, value added, anytime I was out there and there was something that I could give to my customers, my homeowner, you know, that was would make their pool experience better, I was more than happy to do it. The other thing that it does is, and this you you know, you do it for safety, you do it for the protection of the people at the home, but at the same point in time, the pool service professional can sell almost every one of those barriers that we talk about.

unknown 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

There's no reason this shouldn't be in their arsenal where they check the safety items and just point it out and say, hey, you know what? I can get that for you. I mean, I'll even put it up on the wall. Amazon won't do that. I mean, you have to get it anyway.

SPEAKER_08 11:43

Or maybe they just don't know because how many times have you gone somewhere and you've seen no fence to this uh It's a super hard bridge, the uh leak the link between the service guy and the homeowner and safety. It's not it's not uh it's not the first thing that comes to their mind, you know. They're they're they're busy, they have a route to cover, they have duties to attend to. And so I I hold them harmless, although I want to hold them helpful, you know? The pool owner is ultimately responsible.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

I think your paper helps bridge that gap. I definitely think that it does. The other thing is that people folks might just be too intimidated to ask somebody about something like that because at a certain point in time, I remember selling safety and going into it the first, I don't know, hundred times that I talk to somebody about safety, it starts to feel like I'm selling insurance.

SPEAKER_09 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

And that's scary. Yeah. Because that's way outside my wheelhouse. I don't want to ever sell anything where the opposite, you know, where it even could be perceived that if you don't get this, it results in death.

SPEAKER_08 12:55

Yeah. It's super scary. It's a scary topic.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

A lot of people don't want to approach it just for that reason, I think.

SPEAKER_08 13:02

The uh the opening we write the front page of that issue, we write it as though the service technician was addressing his pool owner. And so it's a letter from you, the service guy, to the homeowner, telling him, telling the homeowner why they are talking to them about drowning prevention, because they care. And uh it's not meant to scare, it's not meant to alarm, it's meant to prepare for safety, just the same way as you wear a seatbelt like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

I love it. I actually think, you know, if we could find a way to take that a step further, and I don't know how massive an undertaking it is, but if to get something like that out to the Airbnb people who not necessarily the not necessarily the people who rent them out, but the people who rent them, I think, need to know that they're entering some kind of a safe facility.

SPEAKER_09 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

And that there are hidden dangers. So they can't just annually. So you have you have a front row seat to the industry. What's the biggest pool problem that professionals should be talking about right now, but nobody is discussing?

SPEAKER_08 14:17

What a question. Seriously? Sorry. You know Well, you know, the main topic that I see on Facebook seems to include warranties and installations and the third party the difficulty in maintaining a livelihood in installations when the homeowner is buying something off the internet. That seems to be very, very upsetting to service guys. They don't seem to know how to handle it, what to do, how to get around it. So maybe that's a huge issue gl uh nationwide, not regional.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

I don't know if there's a good way to get around it.

SPEAKER_08 14:57

Well it's it's it's that I don't know. But that is the buzz on Facebook for sure. They seem to be buying the equipment and then telling the service guy to install it instead of service guy. Right.

SPEAKER_09 15:11

That would piss me off.

SPEAKER_08 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

I don't want to touch it. If they buy it and put it in themselves, that's one thing. If they're buying it and telling the service guy to do it, if I was the service guy, I would walk away. Sorry. I can't tell you anything about the handling of that. I'm losing a bunch of money. I would lose a bunch of money if I did it. I'd have to triple, triple, quadruple the service rate before I would even consider doing such a thing, I think. But a lot of folks do it anyway, they they don't want to lose the business. And I get that too. It's it can be scary.

SPEAKER_08 15:45

And the manufacturers have it set up to where the service guy is receiving a discount should he purchase their equipment and install it. So there's that component. He has an interest in in uh supplying the homeowner with the equipment that he's carrying. Because he probably is inventorying to some degree. Depending on the size of the service company.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

A lot of folks blame the manufacturers. Manufacturers should not allow their products to be on Amazon. Could they really stop it?

SPEAKER_08 16:18

The distribution? Well, look at Home Depot.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Home Depot and I don't think the manufacturers are pushing it out.

SPEAKER_08 16:28

Home Depot and Lowe's restrict where and who is on their shelves. Jim, what is it? Deere is only available in one of the John John Deere? John Deere?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

John Deere.

SPEAKER_10 16:42

Are you a hundred percent sure about that?

SPEAKER_08 16:47

And there's another there's another supplier at Home Depot that you cannot have elsewhere.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

And then but there was Craftsman at Sears, too. Remember that? And then Kmart bought them, and then there was Craftsman at K Kmart.

SPEAKER_08 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Now I don't know where they are, but that's where they were always a Sears product, and that was the only place you could get them.

SPEAKER_08 17:06

So boy, do they have a great tool?

SPEAKER_02 17:08

So maybe there is. Oh, I'll tell you what. So now one of the cool things about your publication, your market is the pool service professional. Your articles are geared toward the pool service professional. Everything in your paper is geared toward the pool service professional. And some folks might say that that's a little bit niche, but I think in a lot of ways, you know, that really helps deliver the information in a way that's more digestible to the person receiving it. Also for manufacturers advertising, I mean, walk me through that. What am I looking at here?

SPEAKER_08 17:47

Well, okay, so we have 10,000 readers. 10,000 of our readers. They are all email readers, as in we have 10,000 email addresses. Uh these people used to receive the paper in in printed form. And when we went offline or off the printing press and turned entirely digital, which has been about eight years now, haven't looked back. It's the best thing we ever did. People read news on their phones. They read news on their computers. Nobody I mean, yes, they they yearn and wish for the days of of of turning the pages the way a person likes to read a book. It's there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not the fast, speedy way that things are done anymore. You know. We all we all liked our eight track tapes. Did we though? That's well, that's not the way the world is anymore. So we've adjusted to the way the world is and that's online. And so we publish twice a month on the first and the fifteenth. Everything we write, it goes out in an email, just the same as the paper did, only it's now an email. And uh we also send the paper through our app. And our app is the exact same thing. There are no ads on our app that uh pop up. It's the same newspaper that you get in the email. And then we also are available on our Facebook page and on our website, which is serviceindustry news.net. And like that. So we came up with this idea of having a service driven paper because the service side in the nineteen eighties was underrepresented. Nobody cared. Everybody cared about the builder and maybe they cared about how things were distributed, they cared about manufacturing, they cared about the beautiful pool, the resorts. But the service guy was the un uncared about almost ungrate ungrate just totally diminished. Nobody cared. And uh the original owner of the paper, David Dickman and Bob Lowry, came up with the idea of starting a newspaper that delivered information to this underrepresented population of people, which was both basically in the San Fernando Valley, and uh it started there in 1986 and in uh July or August. So we're gonna be 40 years old this next year.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 20:11

That's how long ago.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Well, I know I've been in the industry for I don't know how long now, I think thirty-six or thirty-seven years. And I know service industry news was always a part of it. It would show up, I would tear open the paper, I'd run through it looking for the horror file, find that, check it out, ooh, and then think to myself, how can I get in there? Then go back and I would read through the articles and stuff in between what have you. But and I did actually, I got in there once. I have I have a pool fence with a do not enter sign that has bullet holes in it, and then the fence itself is wrapped in barbed wire. I think it was back just before the pandemic. It might have been 2019, but I did get my picture that in there. It took me, you know, a long time. But to find something worthy to compete with some of the things some of these folks send you, it's it's insane the stuff that's out there. Yeah, it's it's just incredible. Incredible.

SPEAKER_08 21:10

Well, and for for your listeners, we are always happy to receive those. Send them, send them. And now on our website, which is serviceindustry news.net, there's a tab that says submit your horror file. It's under the submit button. And we need them. Nice. So send it send them when you can.

SPEAKER_12 21:30

I've been getting service industry news since I first stepped into this business, and every time it landed, I did the same thing. Flip straight to the horror file. The weird installs, the absurd finds the stuff only pool pros ever see. Then I'd go back and read the articles. Service Industry News is a twice monthly trade publication for pool and spa service text, 24 issues a year, emailed free to over 10,000 texts and available on their app. Every issue covers nationwide industry news and real technology. Technical content you actually will use.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Get your free subscription at serviceindustry news.net. Again, that's serviceindustry news.net. Do it now.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

The sponsors of the 2026 Talking Pools Podcast Pool Industry Mentor Award are Blu-ray XL, Lamotte Company, Revved Up Apparel, and the Aqua Comfort Water Group. These manufacturers truly understand the importance of mentorship in the industry.

SPEAKER_11 22:26

I would like to announce that United Chemical has just come on board as a title sponsor for the 2026 TPP Mentor Award. A big thanks to Scott and the team for joining us in such an important recognition and investment in the future of our industry.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

How do you see Service Industry News as a partner for the Pool Service Professional?

SPEAKER_08 22:51

We are the voice of the pool and spa service technician. So we are we are happy partners and have been. I'll tell you what, we are interested in doing a lot more visually with our readers and auditorily with our readers. So you can look forward to that. But right now you can get video on the paper itself. So today's issue that just it just went out this morning. The J uh, let's see, it was June June 15th. The front page we're running a video of the Lincoln Pool Reflected Memorial Pool.

SPEAKER_09 23:29

Uh huh. Yeah. It's I saw something pertaining to that.

SPEAKER_08 23:33

Yeah. You can just hit play and and watch this cool video. That was the talk of Facebook last week of everybody was really wondering where the material is coming from for the for the Lincoln pool in Washington, DC because they had it re redone.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

I think it's the talk of Facebook this week, too, because it turned green. I don't know what they're gonna do. I had a thought it was to get some aerial-rated copper sulfate and then just zoom right over it with a crop duster. Take the whole thing out in about five minutes, we'd be done.

SPEAKER_08 24:09

That'd be fun.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

We can carry the banner behind us, service industry maybe.

SPEAKER_08 24:13

That's such a good idea. I love the best idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Looking at this month's stories, you got a few involving chemical incidents and technician safety. Do you think our industry's biggest challenge is education, complacency, or something else entirely?

SPEAKER_08 24:31

It's education and uh not enough people knowing which which job is their job. You know, if you look at uh lawsuits, you can find that everybody that is involved in the lawsuit is sued. So, you know, it might not be the service guy's fault, but he's gonna be he's gonna be named in the lawsuit because he's on he's he's a party to the pool. You know, he's showed up. And so knowing what what your role is in in making the pool as safe as possible is a huge component, you know. What what part of this job is yours? Is it just to put chemicals in the pool or is it also to make sure that the um inner lock is working? So that that that component of safety is is probably in need of a little attention last professional on site.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Even if they don't do repairs or replace equipment or anything along those lines, if something happens, they will be named in that suit as the last professional on site. Now, whether it sticks or not, I don't know. But that's right. Scary stuff.

SPEAKER_08 25:41

It is scary stuff. And so you you better arm yourself with as much information and get educated. We did a poll of our readers a couple of months ago, uh, different from the survey that we just finished that's currently running in our paper. We did a poll on why they read trade magazines. What are they what are they interested in in most of all? And our readers told us that they were interested in education. So they're reading not necessarily for entertainment, not to know who's who on the on the list of who's who, but how to install a filter, how to make sure that your pump is going to shut off when the chemical feeder fails. How to know whether or not you should add this chemical to that chemical without causing a gas or an explosion. Right. So they're reading trade publications for information and education. So it's not for lack of want that they might not necessarily know something. You know, they are defin definitely interested in learning and knowing.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Everybody calls something their pool bible. It's always something different. Do you think a pool bible exists?

SPEAKER_08 26:56

I think we I think that the universality, is that what you're sort of talking about? That whether or not something is a a universal truth and people follow the same mechanics. I think that there is a consolidated education. I think that the people that are learning what they need to learn about big techniques are the same. So yes, but accessing it is a different story. Accessing the information is not is not as grand as it could be. We need more information available to the service guy, which is why we're so red. I I know that we are red. Every everybody that gets our paper is reading it because I've I've got the statistics that tell me they opened it. And people that go to the trade shows, why are they going to trade shows? I asked that question in that survey. Everybody wants to go to the trade shows for the seminars. The seminars are leading the information there. They're walking up and down the aisles, that's when they're doing their shopping. There's a lot of sales going on at trade shows. So I think that the intention of the service guy is to learn and to prepare himself. I do believe that he wants to know. And so as a as a publisher, my job is to make that information available. That's my job.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

One of the inhibiting factors is cost. And I know I'm not going to say any program is not worth what folks pay for it. There's a lot of great programs, probably worth more than they charge to attend, for sure. Yeah. But the person, the one pole guy in the truck who just hired his first employee, he's probably not sending that person off for a twelve hundred dollar training program. Probably not comfortable with spending 300 bucks. Because we just got this guy and we want to train him. He's going to ride along in the truck with me and I'll do the best I can and he'll pick up things as he goes. It would be great if there was some training. But I don't want to I can't make a huge investment.

SPEAKER_08 29:00

Human capital investment. Boy, that's a tough one. That's that's a problem no matter where you are. In any industry, that's the problem. How do you retain employees?

SPEAKER_02 29:10

And well, education's a big part of that.

SPEAKER_08 29:12

Yeah. You don't want to educate them and then lose them.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

But you don't want them to be dumb and stay.

SPEAKER_08 29:19

You don't want them to be dumb and stay. So there's gotta be a yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

You don't want them uneducated and staying. So you need some mid-ground. I think I think the key is uh we need to pay. And when I say pay, it's that encompasses all all benefits that would come with it, you know, the total package. We i it would be great if we could get our rates up enough that we could pay these folks what they're worth.

SPEAKER_09 29:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

And I think, you know, that total value, not just monetarily, but all of it, then that person, no matter how well educated they are, they're not going anywhere. They're happy, they're good. They're they're happy with us. I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_08 30:01

It's a the even that saying that is a dicey thing because if if the homeowner knew the the requirements that the pool service technician actually has on his shoulders, they wouldn't be able to afford if we had if we associated pay with what with what he is due to duty bound to uphold. I don't think it would be an affordable service. I mean he's safeguarding the lives of the family, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:29

There there's no words. That nails it. There's nothing, there's nothing else. That's the whole program. If I wanted to run an ad with you, do I get some insight on what articles you're running so I can ask you to put my ad near something if I wanted to?

SPEAKER_08 30:44

I used to I used to put the ads that matched with the stories. I used to do that on purpose.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Well you just did it automatically.

SPEAKER_08 30:52

I did it as a courtesy. I thought it was a nice thing to do. And uh but nowadays so there's less less attention focused on ad and then the material that's running next to it. I don't I don't pay any attention to that necessarily. I don't put advertisers that are in competing competing goods next to each other. That I pay attention to. Um but we solicit We um offer advertisers to write for us, you know. A lot of manufacturers have very in uh good insight into their products, so we we definitely invite that.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Do you get lots of unsolicited contributions to the paper?

SPEAKER_08 31:39

Yeah. No. We've started two columns. No, not really, not really. Letters to the editor, yes. But we started a column that I want to tell you about. It's called it well, it's written by Ruben Clark, and the name of the column is uh Electrical Matters. And he writes stories that the pool service guy would only be able to learn about if they were in an electric an electricity class given for pool service technicians. Because this information and I I I was talking about this recently with someone, the information that a pool service technician needs about electricity is really not available. Because where is he gonna get the information other than the NEC code? And the pools that I was once on a on a what field trip with another service technician, and we visited pools that were just being modified, they're renovated. Uh they were not being they were not on his schedule because they were dangerous pools. We were visiting these pools for cosmetic reasons, but we also tested the chemical or sorry, the electricity and to see if there was any error in anything. And they all failed. Every pool that we tested for electrical safety failed miserably. Yeah. And and so it was a it was a it was basically a survey that that was uh was 100% accurate about pool safety. And so there's no way to access this kind of information unless you're a builder. Builders have it because they're installing. But this pool service guy needs to check to see if the electricity is being properly maintained and whether or not there's any faulty wiring, or if the pool maybe isn't bonded or grounded, and what's the difference between those two things, and so on and so forth. So we have a column dedicated to that.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_07 33:46

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SPEAKER_02 36:03

Let me ask you this. When a controversial topic comes across your desk, how do you balance protecting industry relationships while telling your customers uncomfortable truths? You don't beat around the bush. That's one thing I can say for sure.

SPEAKER_08 36:21

I would have to ask this question. Who are we writing for? This is these are the questions I ask myself. Who are we writing these stories for? This is for the service guy. So does this help him or does is this information that he needs to know, or would be helped by knowing? And if the answer to both of those is no, this story does neither of those things, then I probably am not gonna run it. Because why run it? It it failed the the test, the l the litmus test of of why would we run a story like this. Now, is it entertaining? Probably.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

The only one who would care about was whoever it was that was screwing up that we wrote about after that and nobody else would really serve the purpose of because the neck person off.

SPEAKER_08 37:14

Exactly. We write a lot of stories about incomplete work. Builders that walk off the job, builders that don't show up. And why are we writing those stories? Mostly to protect the service guy in what not to do in his own contract. Don't do these things. So, you know, in avoid avoid these failures. Um that's why we might write that. The chem leak stories that we we write, I I tell you, I think I put at least one chemical leak or interlock failure in in one issue every month. For sure. And those are also to the to the service guy, we need you guys to participate a little greater in these failures so that they stop happening. We're sending people to hospitals.

unknown 38:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Here's the thing, I tell folks it's too easy to do because you're talking about a uh system where there's automation. Okay, cool. There's a peristaltic pump. I have to shut off the pump, I have to shut off the pump to manipulate the valves so I can backwash the filter. And I'm probably doing that weekly throughout the season. All I need to do is turn my head and make sure that that the peristaltic pump stops pumping. Yeah, and that's all I need to do to give it a test. Because one of the tests is a stop filter, a stop pump test. Stop the pump, look, backwash, make sure it stays off. Okay, cool, comes back on. If not, you have a problem. And that problem should be presented to that that owner with the word estimate at the top if you're qualified to do so.

SPEAKER_08 38:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

I think so.

SPEAKER_08 38:58

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

What do you think about is it Minnesota that just stepped up in ban and said swimply pools are commercial pools? Period the end. Was that Minnesota? Or must be so.

SPEAKER_08 39:10

Yes. What do you think about that? What a well, I think that the conversion of what was private into public is a pretty tricky thing to do, you know. Including so air the Airbnbs that have swimming pools. A lot of we see a lot of drownings in those pools. A lot of drownings. And that is pretty expected because the people that are traveling, they are not necessarily aware of pools. They are visiting, so they don't really get the the the uh cause for concern. So to see a pool without a gate, to see a pool without with a ladder that's going straight up and you've got your tiny little toddler, they don't see that this is possibly dangerous. So to convert a private pool, which is what swim bleep does, into a public domain is it's not necessarily the safest thing to do. Because the regulation doesn't apply.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

No, it does now in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_08 40:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Scary stuff.

SPEAKER_08 40:17

It it really is if you're gonna call something public, it needs to be regulated.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I agree a hundred percent. I was part of a a group, a stakeholders group for South Florida College. They had brought in people, they were ultimately hired by the health department to sit down and get a research group together to address specifically drownings at Airbnbs because it occurred so frequently. And they spent a lot of effort and time and putting signage throughout airports, people coming into Florida seeing these signs and saying, Oh, okay, I need to check for that, I need to check for that. Then somebody, and I think it was a it might have been a senator, I want to say from the Orlando area. I think he was dri uh driving force here, said, Hey, well, wait a minute. Most of the drownings, because Florida is a unique state. Most of the drownings we get at Airbnb pools are Floridians because Florida is the only state where somebody really will go on vacation in a different part of the state they live in. So now we address Floridians, and then I'm I think that program had come to an end, and they had put together some pretty decent materials for folks. But it was just an interesting statement because it's true. Everybody I a lot of people I know in Florida, it's like where I live, where are you going on vacation? I'm going to Keys, I'm going to Tampa, I'm going to Destin. Um, you know what I mean? It's just yeah, we have beautiful beaches here.

SPEAKER_09 41:48

Right. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

So but yeah. Anyway. Pool industry talks a lot about chemistry, equipment, and construction. Why do you think human factors, training, judgment, communication, and behavior cause so many of the industry's biggest failures?

SPEAKER_08 42:08

Human human failure causing failures. Right?

SPEAKER_02 42:13

I think it comes back. Probably education comes back, right?

SPEAKER_08 42:17

Yeah. I mean, I don't know why you would expect for success with human failure. It's gonna if if the human is failing, it's gonna fail.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Have you noticed that we hang on to our industry myths and folklore with a death grip?

SPEAKER_08 42:30

Like what?

SPEAKER_02 42:30

You mean something new comes about, science proof something new, we don't want we don't want to let go of what we were using. Like acid columns come to mind. Like the acid columns.

SPEAKER_08 42:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Stating that you could lower pH without lowering the total alkalinity. And a whole bunch of people, I'm gonna get blowback on this because I know a lot of the listeners might go that route as well, but they'll swear up and down. If I pour muriatic acid slowly all into one spot, I will burn off bicarbonate without affecting my pH. If I spread it like I'm feeding chickens, I'll lower the pH without affecting the total alkalinity. But the fact is when you add it, no matter how you add it, you're gonna lower you're gonna lower both.

SPEAKER_09 43:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

But we hang on to that. Or the fact the only way to get rid of black algae is to replaster the pool. You've heard this, right?

SPEAKER_08 43:20

Don't you think it's true that people like what they know?

SPEAKER_02 43:23

They do.

SPEAKER_08 43:24

Right. It's because that's what's safe. You feel safe in what you know, and so to leave your safe box and and even entertain somebody else's idea is scary, you know? And it it also requires a bit of humility to notice that maybe your method isn't the best method. Maybe you need to try something else.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

I agree. People hang on to what they learn, their mentor taught them such a thing, they've been doing it this way for 20 years. Now here comes somebody saying, No, you're wrong, and people defend what They know, but then maybe that goes back to consistency in education again. New things come about. One of the things folks don't realize is that the science does get better. So the information we get gets better, and sometimes things change. Who'd have thought alum could lower cyanuric acid? We've been using it since 1500 BC in water treatment. Why are we figuring this out in 2019? Right. I mean, we've been putting cyanuric acid into pools since 1950s. So that's a good 70 years of using this stuff before we figured out that this old dusty chemical could, in the right proportion, could take it out take it out.

SPEAKER_08 44:36

I'll tell you what, Rudy, as an adjacent topic, I have found the glory of vinegar. Vinegar and baking soda.

SPEAKER_09 44:44

In the pool?

SPEAKER_08 44:45

These, no. At home. You can use vinegar and baking soda.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Okay, as a home remedy.

SPEAKER_08 44:52

As an everything.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

A piece of aluminum foil.

SPEAKER_08 44:54

Everything, all of your surfaces, you can clean them with vinegar, right? And you can prevent you can prevent your disgusting shower from being being so disgusting. Add your baking soda to your vinegar, and then you stuff the the grout line with your baking soda, and you leave it there for a day. Then you put vinegar on top of that the next day, let it do its bubbly stuff, and for six months you won't see any of that stuff in your shower, the gross stuff.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Interesting. I I would have to sit down and think about how that's working. So I'm speaking to getting I think there were a lot of things that fell off the shelf because some things were more profitable.

SPEAKER_08 45:42

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

So some things just went away. We need to bring them back. We can have both. It's cool.

SPEAKER_08 45:48

We can have both, or we can have the basics.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Is there a topic that you always wanted to speak on or write about that you've just always held off on because you knew it would start a civil war in the industry? Is there anything along those lines? No. Something that you've been sitting on for years? Just like No.

SPEAKER_08 46:08

I have the year. No, no. I got a lot of fun. I thought it was I thought it was fun to run stories about cyanuric acid, and I like watching how people got so upset about it. It caused such upset. Last week I had diarrhea.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Last week I put a post on Facebook, and it's probably one of the most active posts I've had in a long time. All I did was put type in the word cyanic acid and hit post. And that was it, just it's cyanoric acid. I must have like 70, 80 comments on that.

SPEAKER_09 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

150 likes or more. It's just one word. And it's just like, wow, how cool is that?

SPEAKER_09 46:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

So any it is controversial. The other one um I did following that, not quite as active, but still pretty good. Phosphates.

SPEAKER_09 47:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

These are things we have very, very strong opinions on. So that's fine. That's it.

SPEAKER_08 47:10

What about chloramines? Yeah, I guess I guess yes. Yes, there is a subject. I would like the topic of chloramines to be addressed.

SPEAKER_09 47:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 47:19

So the public from what angle? Just the pub well, from the public's angle. Mostly always from the public's angle. They walk into a pool and they smell chloramines, and they think this is a good pool. This is a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

I always tell everybody if you walk into an indoor pool, if you walk into an indoor pool and you get that smack in the face chlorine smell where your eyes almost stink, turn around and leave.

SPEAKER_08 47:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Just get out of there.

SPEAKER_08 47:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

So that's a pool that's having a lot of problems chemically and likely with air handling as well.

SPEAKER_09 47:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

So yeah. That's some scary stuff. And it is some, you know what though, I also in class, and and I do this kind of tongue in cheek as a joke, but not as a joke, just because I mean it's one of those things that's funny because it's true, but it is kind of tongue-in-cheek. When I'm talking about calculating the combined chlorine, I'll say you take five drops of DPD-1, five drops of DPD two, put it in, invert it, match it up, you get your color. That's your free chlorine. Now the five drops of DPD number three. That bottle's easy to find because it's the one in your test kit that's still full. And that has that has never not resulted in a chuckle across the class. And but it's true. There's a lot of folks that don't use it. We've seen what we saw what happened with sodium bromide, and I know they're work still working on that as far as it producing bromate, which is harmful, which all of a sudden got the EPA going. Okay. Well, maybe and I'm not going to say it out loud, but there's we might want to look at chloramines. Right. Because there could be something scary there. And, you know, not scary for the folks who check it and test it. I don't want to say it's the problem. If you're checking it, you're doing your job and you're touching every bottle in that test kit within at least a 30-day period of time, then you probably don't have these issues and there's nothing to worry about. But the person who never checks their combined chlorine, you see that a lot in facility. Inside not just water parts, apartment complexes, things along those lines. It really just depends. People tend to only do what's inspected. And if the health official comes through, and the health official comes through, only checks free chlorine and pH, no other tests, you'll most likely see the person at that facility. That's all they're testing. And it's not not just on the main inspects, the pool professionals that go to those facilities too, a lot of them. Just pH, chlorine, pH, chlorine, pH, chlorine, pH, chlorine. It's like, come on, there is a reason for these things. How do we get the importance of that out there?

SPEAKER_08 49:53

When well, I was gonna say I'll come back to that in a second. When I was at one of the places that I stayed here in Italy, I n I went to the pool and they have all of the chemicals listed and posted their values on a on a board outside so the public can see 'em. This whole list. And what and what and what time they they tested. I took a picture. Maybe I'll run that in a story.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

I've said it uh multiple times. This industry wouldn't exist without pool service professionals.

SPEAKER_08 50:23

No, it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

I don't think it would. It wouldn't. Builders can think they would build just as many pools all day long, but you know what? They wouldn't. People don't want to take care of those themselves. A lot of them don't.

SPEAKER_09 50:34

No.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

So God bless the pool pro.

SPEAKER_08 50:37

God bless the pool pro.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Carrie, thank you so much for coming to visit with us today. I appreciate you. Listen, for any of the folks out there that want to receive Service Industry News, now you can be pretty much global too, can't you? How do people get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_08 50:55

They get a hold of us by going online, serviceindustrynews.net. And the publication is under sign up or free subscription. It is free. Uh, there will never be a charge for this to read. We are a resource available to pool service technicians worldwide.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

So, everybody listening, there you go. If you're a pool service pro and you want something that focuses 100% on the pool service pro, service industry news is the paper. If you are a manufacturer or offer some service to the industry and you really just want to hit that portion of the market, this is your direct route. Way to go. Carrie, thank you so much. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_08 51:38

Thank you, Rudy. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

And everybody listening, thank you. And that's what we got for this week. Until next time, be good, be safe.