Dealers, Distributors & Dirty Little Secrets - Wednesdays

In this episode of the Talking Pools Podcast, host Natalie Hood sits down with Michael Thill, Regional Sales Manager with The Grit Game, to tackle some of the biggest misconceptions surrounding sales, distribution, retail operations, dealer support, and business growth in the swimming pool industry. Michael shares lessons learned from more than 15 years in retail, distribution, service, renovations, and manufacturer representation, offering a behind-the-scenes look at what really drives success in today's marketplace. 

From his unexpected introduction to the industry in 2011 as a part-time helper at Caribbean Pools to leadership roles with PoolCorp and now The Grit Game, Michael discusses the power of company culture, mentorship, relationship building, and why loving what you do can completely transform your career. 

Topics Covered in This Episode

Do Dealers Only Care About Price?

Michael explains why price is often the first question asked—but rarely the deciding factor. Customers and dealers alike are willing to pay more when they receive exceptional service, expert guidance, and genuine support. The conversation explores how value consistently outperforms price in long-term business relationships. 

Why Product Knowledge Still Matters

The discussion challenges the idea that customers should educate themselves before entering a retail store. Natalie and Michael explain why knowledgeable staff remain one of the most valuable assets a business can have and how ongoing education creates better customer experiences, stronger teams, and increased profitability. 

The Real Purpose of Retail Stores

Contrary to popular belief, customers don't only visit pool stores when something breaks. The episode explores how successful retailers create environments that foster loyalty, trust, community, and repeat business long after the initial sale. 

Distribution Is More Than Moving Boxes

Michael shares what he learned working inside distribution and why great distributor representatives function as educators, problem-solvers, business developers, and strategic partners—not simply order takers. 

Inventory, Forecasting & Supply Chain Realities

The pair discuss common misconceptions about inventory availability, forecasting, lead times, and why communication between dealers, distributors, manufacturers, and reps is critical to maintaining product availability and supporting business growth. 

Building Better Dealer Relationships

What makes a dealer easy to support? What creates challenges? Michael shares candid insights about adaptability, openness to change, communication, and why strong relationships remain one of the most powerful business tools available. 

Why Great Products Don't Always Win

The conversation explores why even outstanding products can struggle to gain market share and how education, awareness, promotion, and dealer buy-in often matter more than product quality alone. 

Promotion vs. Discounting

One of the most practical discussions of the episode focuses on the difference between promoting products and discounting them. Michael explains why businesses often rush to markdowns before fully utilizing effective marketing, customer engagement, and event-driven promotion strategies. 

Key Takeaways

•  Relationships outperform transactions. 
•  Product knowledge remains a competitive advantage. 
•  Great customer experiences create loyalty beyond price. 
•  Distribution and manufacturer reps can be valuable business partners. 
•  Forecasting and communication reduce inventory challenges. 
•  Education fuels growth at every level of the industry. 
•  Promotion creates excitement; discounts should be a last resort. 
•  Long-term success comes from investing in people, not just products. 

Memorable Quote

"Plants don't grow in the same pot they started in. They need new soil, new opportunities, and continued cultivation. Businesses are no different." — Michael Thill 

Whether you're a builder, service professional, retailer, distributor, manufacturer, or sales representative, this episode provides valuable insight into the relationships, strategies, and mindset required to thrive in today's pool industry.

#TalkingPools #PoolIndustry #PoolBusiness #DealerSupport #Distribution #SalesLeadership #PoolProfessionals #RetailSuccess #BusinessGrowth #AquaticsIndustry #NatalieHood #MichaelThill

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Welcome back to the Talking Pools podcast, your go-to source for everything went wild and wonderfully misunderstood in the pool world. I'm Natalie Hood, Director of Education Events for The Grit Game. And today we're diving into a misunderstood side of the industry. Sales, reps, dealers, distribution, retail, and what really drives growth in the pool business. And joining me today is Michael Phil, regional sales manager covering Wisconsin, Illinois, and Indiana. You know, Michael brings over 15 years of industry experience across retail, distribution, dealer support, and renovations. You know, he spent time with Pool Corp leading retail divisions and renovations at Caribbean pools. And so he's really seeing firsthand what works and what absolutely doesn't. So, you know, in today's episode, we're going to be busting some big myths about the industry, including dealers only care about price, distribution just wants to move boxes, and sales reps just want to take orders. We're also talking forecasting, manufacturer support, dealer relationships, retail education, and why strong partners matter now more than ever. And so whether you're a builder, a retailer, a distributor, manufacturer, or a sales rep trying to grow your business and better support your customers, this episode is really going to be packed with real world insight that you don't want to miss. So, Michael, before we jump in, can you kind of give our listeners a brief history of how you got into the industry and landed with the grid games?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

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SPEAKER_00 2:25

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SPEAKER_07 3:34

Michael, before we jump in, can you kind of give our listeners a brief history of how you got into the industry and landed with the grid game?

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Thanks, Natalie. By accident.

SPEAKER_07 3:44

By accident. Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

2011, a friend of mine that was going to church with, and he asked if I was interested in making some side money. And I'm like, sure, what am I going to be doing? And he let me know he worked for Caribbean pools. And I'm like, I don't know anything about pools. I've never owned one. I like to swim in them, but that was about the extent of my experience. He's like, you don't need to, you just need to be an extra set of hands for a service guy. He goes, We'll we'll pay you cash. It's basically short term. So uh seven days in 2011 in the month of May is all I worked. I worked on my day off. Uh days off when I was with Shoe Carnival. And uh first day there, a wife dropped me off when she picked me up. I told her, I said, I don't know what I need to do, but I need to work for this company full time.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Loved it, did you?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

And yeah, and it wasn't really so much about the industry was as it was, it was about the the company. Very family-owned and operated, very caring about its employees, even so much so that the guys had a Bible study group that met daily at 6 30 in the morning before everybody else got there. So it was things like that that really drew me to the company. And 2011, 2012 were both part-time years for me. And then two thousand end of 2012, they made me a full-time offer to come on board. So and here I've been since then. Very cool. Left there to go to work for uh Pool Corp, SCP local branch. Uh worked there for about a year and a half, and that is where I had the opportunity to meet Johnny and Lacey at the Mid-America show in Indianapolis. Uh, I think that was January of 2024, and hit it off. I actually intentionally looked for them because I'd seen some things on LinkedIn and just loved what they were putting out there. Um I'd only been with Pool Corp for about six weeks and found them, and in the back of my head, I was just like, if this is what this could lead to, then then I'm I'm heading in the right direction. And within about 20 minutes, met Lacey, uh, met Johnny, and then as I was leaving to continue, like it was already hugging basis. So immediate connection. Obviously, stayed in contact with with Lacey primarily over the next year, and uh got a phone call in June of last year from Johnny looking to uh bring me on board and uh August 11th of 2025, here I am. So and no regrets whatsoever. I've loved every every moment of it.

SPEAKER_07 6:02

So now I have to ask, when you s do do you remember what pants he was wearing when you first met them?

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Uh I'm pretty sure it was the flamingo pants.

SPEAKER_07 6:10

Was it the flamingo?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah, I I actually have a picture with them when I first met them, and that is uh it's actually when I was at uh SCP the wall behind my desk, I had what I called the wall of fame. And um, it's people that I've I've met mostly from the entertainment industry because I'm a big nerd if you can't tell by the background. But Johnny and Lacey uh had a prominent spot, our picture together on that wall.

SPEAKER_07 6:35

So very cool, very cool. I think when I first met them, uh I think he had the Pac-Man pants on.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

I love those too.

SPEAKER_07 6:42

Yeah, those are pretty cool. And I have to say I I can see Gandalf behind you, and I'm a massive Lord of the Rings fan, so I appreciate that. Well, that is fantastic, and I have to take it, uh I I have to ask. And, you know, for those that know me, they know that I um have quite a bit of ink, and I know I had uh I had worked for a job for quite a long time, well over a decade, and there was a joke of when I was gonna get tattooed, and I never did. And my husband always jokes, he's like, When are you gonna get my tattoo on you? And I'm like, probably never love you, but no. But um, is there a myth going around that uh you got the grit game tattooed on your arm? Is that a myth?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

It is not a myth.

SPEAKER_07 7:23

Okay, let's see.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Before I throw it, before I show it, um there was there was a challenge that was was thrown down prior to the acquiring of this ink, and I don't think anybody believed that I would do it. And the and the big reason that I did it is is actually twofold. One, I believe so much in in what the grit game stands for and and who we are, and that's not towing the company line. Like I've seen it from before I met Johnny and Lacey, what they were doing in the industry and how they were approaching things so differently than other manufactured rep groups and things like that. Um, but then two, I mean the grit game, it it's actually it can be a lifestyle code. It's not it's not just a brand name, it's it's how do you approach life? So uh so last year I had the day off. My wife and I were driving around, I said, script, let's go to the tattoo parlor.

SPEAKER_07 8:14

And uh just like that, huh?

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Went and uh went big. Everybody's like, wow, you didn't even go little. I said, No. I said, I wanted to be more to go bold. I wanted to make sure everybody knew.

SPEAKER_07 8:24

Nothing little.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

We always I love it.

SPEAKER_07 8:27

And uh have you prom have they promised that they would never change their logo?

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Uh I did get that. Uh so the day that I revealed it to the team on uh a Monday meeting, Lacey did promise that they wouldn't change the logo. So um I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_07 8:40

Yeah, right. No, I I will say um before we jump into the myth, I will say I've worked for a couple different companies, and it makes such a difference when you work for a company that truly cares. I felt like I was absolutely welcomed, not just by Johnny and Lacey, but by the whole team immediately. I felt such a strong family bond. And since then, you know, there's it's been, you know, there's been some ups and some downs, not within the team, but with, you know, with family. And you guys have been extremely supportive. And I felt like I've kind of just started from the ground up here. And I'm extremely thankful to have found uh a home here with the great games. You're absolutely right, and it makes such a big difference because I mean, you're you're eight to five, you're nine to five, it's it's your day-to-day. And it, you know, if you're not happy with where you're working, you're pretty miserable. But I'll say I enjoy coming to work every single day. And before you and I got on this call, we were chat we were chatting and it was Memorial Day weekend, and I was saying how my kids were playing in the basement, and I was actually at my computer working because I actually thoroughly enjoy my job.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

You find you find out that it's you know, you find something you love, you never work a day in your life. You know, exactly. I think that might have been Steve Jobs, and it it really is true. You know, you you find yourself looking for different ways to do things, or you know, you're watching for me, I'm a very visual guy. So when I'm watching TV or commercials or shorts on whatever platform, you know, I'm looking for different things that can help tie into what I'm doing. So it's always always on the research side of things. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:17

Yeah. Yeah. No, I absolutely love it. My husband thinks he's like, I feel like you live downstairs because I work in the basement. And I'm like, you know, I probably do live down here quite a bit, but it's just because I love what I do. And so well, let's dive into some of these myths because we've got quite a few to talk about today. So let's just let's just jump right into them. And the first one is that dealers only care about price. What would you what do you and so that's kind of open-ended, but what do you what would you say about that?

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Uh it's it's I'm gonna say it's a 50-50 split. So I'm gonna speak from my personal experience and then what I've found when I talk to dealers. So I've actually been in a retail type environment since I was 16, so figure 36 years roughly of retail type experience. And one of the things that I have found is that price, especially now in the competitive marketplace of online versus brick and mortar, has become more important than ever. But I if you start with price, I personally feel that you're you're already starting a losing battle. Price is just the means to the end. So at the end of the day, if you've provided great value in what you're offering and how you're offering it, price is inconsequential. It's just it's just the means to the end. Whereas on the flip side, you know, being on the distribution side of things, when I go talk to dealers, it, you know, you'd introduce a new product, and the first thing is, well, how much is it going to cost me? Because then they got like, I've got to compete with online or I've got to compete with local competition. And I would typically counter back with, well, let me let me give you an example. I said I work for Caribbean pools, and I would have customers come in with regularity that would tell me that you guys are not the cheapest by far in the area when it comes to your chemicals or your products, but we will buy from here because of the service and the people that are working here. Because it's not just about the product, it's about everything else that comes with it, the the wisdom, the knowledge, the the willingness to go the extra step and and help people out. That's the re 100%. I mean, I like to boast that I'm a child of uh Chris Kringle from Miracle on 34th Street.

SPEAKER_07 12:31

I love that move.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

You know, when when the lady is, you know, she has the kid and she's looking for the toy and they don't carry it there at Macy's, and he tells her where she can go and get it. You know, Mr. Macy's just like what are you doing? Why are you sending people away? And then she comes up and says, I will always shop here. Because it wasn't just about the sale, it was about giving the customer what they're looking for. Right. I would spend time, you know, I'd spend 15, 20, 30 minutes trying to find this so such an obscure part for a customer. And I would tell him, I said, Look, I can get this. I said, I don't know how how soon it's gonna come. I said, but I found it here, here, here. Here's the websites, here's the part number, and this is how much you can get it for, and this is how quick you can get it. And I don't think I ever had a single interaction that was just that, a single interaction. Those customers would always come back because they knew that they were important to us behind the counter. And I I made sure that every associate that worked for me knew that we aren't and we're not in the business of just saying no, we don't have that. We're in the business of let me see how I can help you. And that that attitude basically trumped whatever price discrepancies people would ever see. They were willing to pay a little bit extra because the service was that excellent.

SPEAKER_07 13:50

So well, and I feel like also they're you you're gaining that trust too, right? Especially if a new product comes on board and they have questions, they know that they can trust to come to you and and that you're gonna be honest about it.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

I mean, I still have customers to this day that actually so I didn't have a work phone cell phone when I was with Caribbean, so a lot of customers have my personal number. And I still have some of those customers to this day that will call me asking for a consult. Like, Mike, what what would you think about this, or you know, that or this? I'm like, I'm sorry to bother you. I'm like, look, there's a reason I gave you my number. I was gonna trust you with it, and if you want to call me and if it's gonna help move things along for you, who am I to say that that's a bad thing? Um, I actually love it. It it still keeps me a little grounded in my retail days, so yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:33

I've had the same phone number for well over a decade, and I will say I get calls that I used to get from three or four years ago, and I still pick up the phone and answer them the best that I can. Absolutely. So couldn't agree more there. Well, another one is that retail stores don't need deep product knowledge, and that you know, customers they should repro they should research products before they walk in.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

No, uh that to me is is a hundred percent myth. Retail stores should have as much product knowledge as humanly possible. I mean, obviously we're not gonna know it all. That's why we have the best friend Google help us facilitate finding things um for customers, but it's it's that knowledge, quite honestly, is what brings people back. You know, being able to, you know, accurately help diagnose a situation, whether it's with water chemistry or parts search, or even in terms of hot tub sales, knowing what the key benefits are with hot tubs or saunas. You know, for me, I was a big green egg guy. We sold big green egg at characters.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

It's expensive too.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

They are, and it was one of those. And and I love that you brought that up because that was always a thing, like, well, I can just go to Walmart and I can buy this. And you said, You're right, and you're gonna replace that every year or maybe every two years. And I said, And by the time you've replaced it ten times, that big green egg that I have is still gonna be there. So you know, being knowledgeable about how to how to use things, the the benefits of things, the and and showing value to the customer and encouraging that this isn't a this isn't a a purchase, that it's an investment. And you know, when when you s when we switch gears from purchase, purchase to me is kind of toss away. I bought this, it's gonna break, and I'm gonna throw it away. Versus I'm gonna invest in a hot tub for my backyard. Well, when you invest in something, you're gonna take care of it. You're gonna make sure that you're keeping everything, you know, running smoothly because you've invested money into this and you're investing your time into it, you want to see long-term return on their investments. So it's about changing the mindset of customers when they were coming in. And like I said, it goes back to that knowledge, though. If it wasn't the fact that our team had such a great knowledge base and a desire to want to learn, it's it's funny. I think a lot of times now in this day and age, people are like, you know, well, you know, we're we're hiring high school kids and you know, they're just a warm body to fill a spot to water test. I said, no, these kids want to learn. They want to be, they want to be active in what they're doing, they want to feel like a part of the team. Um and that's important to train them. We we need to feed that. That's I'll be honest, and you know, gratuitous plug. That's why I'm so excited that we rep Watershape University. You know, while it is not a very inexpensive product that they offer, the value, again, the return on the investment is so incredible. Um that now you go from having a kid for three or four months out of the year for three or four years while they're in college to going, now I want to be a uh pertinent part of this company for the next 20, 30 years because you invested in me. I've found great love in what I'm doing here, and I want to continue to do what I'm doing, versus just treating them like some sort of punk high school kid that you know they they really don't care. I'm like, well, that's not accurate. You you need to invest in them and they'll turn around and invest right back in you. They'll be loyal. I promise you, they will be.

SPEAKER_07 17:53

Right. Well, and you know, training is so important. And then, you know, again, uh that that's one thing that I've learned and is that well, not learned, but that's one thing that's a con that always comes up is you know, the the good all, the good old training, right? Well, that this pr this guy is he he learned it from Ted, and Ted's been teaching, you know, the way of this for 30 years because he learned it from his his granddad, or he learned it from this guy, this jack of trade, and they've been doing it for 60 years. And, you know, education can be expensive, but that type of training is so crucial. And there are so many changes that are happening every single day. And so, you know, education is important and so is manufacturer training. And I think, you know, with those retail stores, they need to make sure that they are providing that that training to their their um their sales team so that they can better understand what they're uh you know working with.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

We actually uh a little story here. Um in 2023, we started a Caribbean. I'm sorry, 2022, while time flies. We uh we started a training program in the off season, and uh we did a topic per week. We met once a week on Tuesdays for about six, seven hours, and we I made binders for my entire team. There was different topics within each of those, everything from parts training to customer service to hot tub training, water chemistry, things like that. And I'm a big Gary Vaynerchuck fan. He's like my number one business idol. I've had the opportunity to meet him several times. And the first time that I met him, I actually I brought my binder with me, and a lot of a lot of the contents that were in there is stuff from him. And uh I said, Can I show you something? And he's like, Absolutely. So I showed it to him. I said, And I didn't put this together because I knew I was meeting you today. This is what I've been doing for a year or so. And uh he was absolutely just humbled by it. I said, Everything that he thought about is so pertinent to so many different industries. And uh we we had the opportunity to take our entire retail staff, three stores, 12 people in their plus ones. We all went down to Nashville for BioGuard's conference one year, and BioGuard was flabbergasted that they sent the entire retail staff um and we were the largest contingent um from a company at that particular event, and uh the team just absorbed it. It wasn't a vacation, like they knew this was a work trip, it was education, it was networking, and um it made me proud as the division head, they took it that way, they took it seriously. And uh and for me to show to see that, that should be a flag to any owner in any pool company that if you treat your people right and you give them the opportunity to be well trained, educated, and continued education, you're gonna get even more from them, which is just gonna turn around and bring more profitability to your company.

SPEAKER_07 20:46

So Well, and you're lighting that fire in them and you're allowing them that that that that opportunity, right, to see. So absolutely couldn't agree more. Well, what about this one? Customers only shop retail when something breaks.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

I can I can bust that one quick.

SPEAKER_07 21:03

Okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

And the reason I can bust that quick is I I had customers at Caribbean, we had customers at Caribbean that would come into the store with no issues what at all. They were nothing was going wrong. They sometimes wouldn't even come in with a water test. They would come in to see how we were doing, check in with us, and they would shop still. They would look at oh yeah, they look at grilling things, or they would look at new pool toys, or they look at new pool tools, things like that. You know, but they would come in and we would see them throughout the winter. Like we're, I mean, we live in the Midwest. I mean, I'm Crown Point, Indiana. I mean, we're we're pretty much closed up by November 15th, but we stayed open throughout the winter because of hot tubs and indoor pools. And we would get customers that would come in and they would shop, they'd come in and chat with us. Us and they would pick up, you know, little things here and there. They would already start the the process for their chemicals for the following year, getting quotes for their early buy purchases. So my experience wasn't anywhere near that, that they just came in because there was a problem or because something broke. They came in because it goes back to what we said previously, the relationship. You know, who cared about them as human beings first? And they weren't transactional, they were relational. You know, my wife, who's also in the industry, she uh managed the retail store that I gave up when I took over the entire division, and she took it a next level. She would send out cards. Congratulations on your graduation, condolences on the passing, makes a big difference, you know, things like that. And this wasn't something that she was instructed to do. She took that next step to show people that they mattered. Yes. That that goes a long way to building building that relationship so that when they come to your store, it's not just about the problems. They're coming in and like going, well, what can I pick up today? You know, what didn't I grab the last time I was here? Or what have I been thinking about? And now I'm ready to pull the trigger on it. And we became the name at the top of the list. Even though we've got several pool dealers in the area whom I love, every one of them. Even when I was with Caribbean, I loved every one of them, but they chose us. And I don't think it's about just the things that are breaking. Now I'm not saying that there aren't customers that that's all it's about, you know, that they come in there, but I think it's easy enough. I think it's it's e it's a hard, easy thing to do.

SPEAKER_07 23:30

Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, you creating relations is such an important part of what you're doing inside and out. It's not it. I don't want to say it's an easy thing to do. It it it can be hard, but it's just so important. And so I I could not agree more right there. And it's it's just nice too when you go into a store and you see someone and you're like, oh, hey, you know, I know that your sister had her baby, or you know, how is Aunt Susie doing? It's just it's nice to have that connection too, especially if someone's having a bad day and they see you, and it's just it's just nice to have.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

It's important. I mean, even even what I'm doing now with the grit game, when I go in and see a dealer that I've never visited, I walk in and I don't take anything in with me. I don't take a line card, I don't take maybe I got a business card in my pocket, that's it. And I'll go in, I'll introduce myself, let them know who I'm with and and what I do, and I I'll tell them, I said, I'm not here to sell you anything. And they just look at me and they're like, okay. I said, I want to hear it now, I want to hear about your business. I want to know who you are, I want to know what your business is about. I want to know what you do and how you're you know navigating all this. And it's interesting the response. You know, people like to talk about what they do. And when you make when you make that the most important aspect of a relationship, everything else just falls into place. You know, it does. And it's yeah, and it's fun. I get to I get to meet new people and hear new things, and it's honestly it's the best part of what I do, and it has been the best part of what I've done for 35 years. I mean, even when I was a kid carrying out groceries for the first time, that was my first job. It was talking to people, seeing what they were like, they were wearing teen gear. We talked about the weather, if their kids were wearing teenage mutant ninja turtle shirts, I'm like, who's your favorite turtle? And I would have a conversation with them about that. Like it's just that that interaction. And in this day and age where, you know, we're not in that interpersonal relationship as much. We're typically digital and in the electronic world. I like to think that I I like to stand out from that. I don't want to just be the phone guy or the computer guy. I want to be the guy that's in your face and smiling and you know, asking you how things are going and all that good stuff. It's it's just a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_07 25:46

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, it's no surprise. My first job was a junior lifeguard.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 25:52

Okay. I think my sec I think my second job was like I worked at this deli.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Nothing wrong with that. There's always a good spot for a good sandwich. So Right.

SPEAKER_07 26:00

But even I think to this day I still can't have like the deli, the deli uh pickles. I still can't eat them. Every time every time we go and we get sandwiches like with our kids on the weekend, they love the deli pickles. My husband, like, you know, he's not giving his up. My girls were like, You're gonna eat your pickle? I'm like, no, take it. Mom mom still can't eat the deli pickles. Um, because my best friend would always walk over from like where she was working, and I would give her like a sandwich with a pickle, but mom still can't eat the pickles. But no, you're absolutely right. It's so nice to create those relationships. And I actually went to a few places over the weekend, just kind of like checking them out. And uh people it's it's interesting though, because people will ask me, you know, they'll ask my husband, like, Oh, what do you do? And he's like, Oh, you know, I'm in the military, and they're like, Oh, okay. And they look at me and they're like, What do you do? And I'm like, What do I do? I work in the aquatics industry, and they're like, So what do you do? I'm like, Well, I buy education, I I do podcasting, I do this, I do that, and they're like, Okay. Anyway, because it's just a lot of people just don't know, right? It's it's it's a small industry, but at the same time, it's really not. But no, you're right. That that relationship, it it's just it makes such a a big difference, uh, you know. And so, you know, going back to distribution, another myth out there is that distribution just moves boxes.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Nope.

SPEAKER_07 27:19

No, no, tell us about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

So, you know, I started at SCP Pool Corp on December of 23 and had no clue, you know, exactly what distribution did. I mean, the my predecessor that I replaced, you know, we had had conversations about some of the things that he did, and that wasn't even terribly enlightening to everything that came about. But I also am not I'm not the type of guy that likes to be stuck in a box. I I I could I could see that, yeah. When I took over the role of BDR uh at SCP Branch A1, shout out to my my former family. I wanted to be more. I wanted to be different. I wanted to stand out from other BDRs that were just, you know, day in and day out. Nothing against you guys, you guys are doing a great job. But I wanted to, I wanted to literally do what my title said. I wanted a business develop. And when you're trying to develop somebody's business and come alongside of them and be a partner in that, um, it's not just about moving boxes. It's not about just getting them what they need from a material goods standpoint. You had to be on point with the latest in the industry in terms of uh businesses or ahead of it. Yeah. You know, you had to see what was going on on the West Coast because everything hits the West Coast first, and then within about six to eight months, it's gonna start trickling this direction into the Midwest. And some stuff will stick, some stuff won't. But I also wanted to make sure that I made their jobs as easy as they can. I mean, I made spreadsheets and catalogs, things that I just developed to give them as an easier tool to be able to order things or to find things or to help quote projects for their for their clients. And uh I started a a month a weekly newsletter called the Deep End News and that went out uh every Tuesday morning. And I made it old school, you know, type print looking, even though it went out electronically. Shout out to Lacey Davis who helped me uh navigate putting that all together early on.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

And it was a newsletter.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

It was about product knowledge. It was about the latest and greatest that you know manufacturers were offering. It was about internal news from Pool Corp, branch hour, something as simple as that. You know, but it wasn't something anybody asked me to do. I wanted to be able to, I can't reach all of my dealers every week, every day of the week. Yeah. But this was a way that I could communicate with all of my dealers, even the ones that weren't assigned to me weekly, to let them know about the latest from Safe Tron or the latest from uh H2 Flow, you know, or or whatnot. Um and then it got to a point where I had a little column. It was wisdom from Matt, who was the senior BDR at the branch, and I would ask him, give me a topic, what what can we talk about? What can we put in there? And it was just little tidbits of things, you know, important things when you're measuring a safety cover or things that you know are important when you know submitting a liner request. And it was it was very well received. You know, dealers, I what was shocking for me was there was no way for me to track the email to see who opened and who didn't. Oh, really? I yeah, I didn't have that ability, but I had to rely to see on if somebody responded back to the email or if they called. And surprisingly, I got lots of phone calls and lots of emails saying, Hey, can you get me pricing on the product you had in the the newsletter this week?

SPEAKER_07 30:40

That's awesome. Yeah, and it's newsletters are they're a great way to stay in touch with people and just kind of keep them up to date with what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah, it's it's not it's not terribly intrusive. Intrusive, yeah. You know, they get to read it at their leisure if they want to, and if they don't want to read it, they can just hit delete. If they want me to stop sending it to them, please stop sending this to me. Right? Yeah, my feelings aren't gonna be hurt. I just want to be able to make you aware as quickly and as often as possible about all the things that could be possible for you and your business.

SPEAKER_07 31:10

Yeah. Yeah, agreed. I used to love writing our uh I used to write a monthly newsletter and then a quarterly newsletter. I actually really enjoyed it because I even it was a great way. Um, we have our busy seasons and then we have our off season, and it's always it's always so nice to see those that we don't see for so many months, and you know, and not everyone goes to every show and things change every year. And so I always felt like the newsletters were a nice way for me to kind of keep in touch with people, right? Maybe this month I might hear from someone I had didn't see last year at the show. So I always liked the newsletters.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Well, and that's and honestly, you know, what you do here on the podcast is just another form of a newsletter. And for so many of us in this industry, we've got so much windshield time, you know, that instead of us being able to sit in front of a computer or on our phone to read something, being able to put on the podcast for our day drive. And, you know, we may get interrupted, you know, 10 times because we're stopping and going and stopping and going. But this is just a an audio newsletter that's giving us insight into the different aspects of what's going on in the aquatic industry.

SPEAKER_07 32:19

That is very true. And for those that don't know me well very well, they get kind of a good idea of how quirky I can be sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

We love the quirkiness.

SPEAKER_07 32:28

Oh, good, good, good, good. What would you say that what would what do you think that people misunderstand most about distribution?

SPEAKER_03 32:35

That everything is readily available.

SPEAKER_07 32:37

See that that actually kind of goes into our next myth, and it's that everything dealers need is always in stock.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

No. I mean, the the branch that I was at was a smaller branch. We had limitations on what we carried. And when you're talking about Pool Corp and the catalog of products and brands, that I mean it's it's exponential. So, you know.

SPEAKER_07 33:00

And because some I mean, some people, some of those guys, they'd have some big catalogs, right? Yes. Just I mean, I I I've gone to some of those shows and those catalogs are huge. And I'll be flipping through it, and I'm just like, I don't even know what I'm looking at by the end of it. It's just, it's just numbers, and I'm I think my brain's just like it it's like a busy freeway at that point. But yeah, how does that work? I mean, they're they're they're out there trying to sell different products, but they might not even have it in stock.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Yeah, you know, and it's you know, it was up to me as a BDR, you know, when I was going and visiting these dealers and I was trying to promote different products and even some stuff that I knew wasn't of readily available at the branch, but it was helping to when I talk with a dealer or multiple dealers about a product saying, excuse me, there we're we're not carrying this right now. It is available. This is what the lead time looks like when you order to reception. However, if we start seeing more and more orders coming in with regularity for X, Y, and Z products, we can then start to carry that here at the branch. But we're not going to carry it if it's only going to be ordered once by one dealer over two years. Like we're not, we we don't have our warehouse space is valuable. We need to have it to where products are coming in and going out, coming in and going out to make sure that there's a nice repetitive toiness to it. And we're not just sitting on products because you wanted it and then you changed your mind six months later, and it's not something you're interested in doing. So um again, goes back to relationship. If the dealer is wanting to sell a product and they're they're really promoting it and they're really selling it, distribution will take notice of that and say, okay, cool, I want to support that because I want I don't want your clients to be delayed in getting something they want, especially if it's something with regularity. I mean, special order items are always going to be there. But if a special order item turns into something that's really starting to take off, well, now we can make this a non-special order and now it's gonna be a stocked item. So Right.

SPEAKER_07 34:53

Well, and sitting inventory isn't good for anyone.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

No.

SPEAKER_07 34:56

I've been there before because then it goes, you have to turn around and and put a massive sale on it, and then you're you're turning around and losing money, and then you have to have a conversation with the accountant to explain why that is.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 35:09

So don't miss those. Well, and this kind of goes into I love how these are just flowing together. Kind of goes into our next one, and it's, you know, dealers don't need relationships with their distributor reps. And I I kind of feel like I already know this, but kind of let's talk about that more. You know, we're talking about inventory, but from your you from your point of view, because this is still, you know, I've been with the Groot Game for about a year now, and I'm so I'm starting to better understand this more, this part of the industry more, because there's so many different parts of the industry, but let's talk about more, like you know, the the value of a strong dealer rep relationship.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

We know there's value there, but let's kind of get into it more so for me, when I would walk in and introduce myself to a dealer within the first couple of meetings, I really establish a baseline of I work for you. At the end of the day, I pool court, or in this case now the grit game is paying my paycheck, but realistically I work for you. How can I be the best associate that you have that's not on your payroll? You know, what are the things that I can bring to the table that will help you not have to worry about it or not to be as, you know, you don't have to spend three or four hours researching something. I can come in and run the research, including like I would you I would come in with a new product and I would have their pricing and everything set up. And because I got the argument so many times about online price, I would actually go through and I would do all the online research and find out where the online price was at, and I would establish what I could sell it at to make a good margin and give them an opportunity to compete, be competitive with online pricing and make a good margin. So the argument didn't even come up. Like I've already done all of it for you.

SPEAKER_07 36:45

Very smart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

We've got the pricing already established, so let's just put that to the side. Now let's talk about what this is going to bring to you as a value in your store, what it's gonna bring value to your customers. And it was it was uh they're appreciative of it. Nobody ever took advantage of it. It was always never it was never an expectation. So if I didn't do that on something, they weren't you know upset about it or whatnot. But it it was again, it's that relationship with your rep, whether it's your distribution rep, whether it's your manufacturer rep, your manufacturing rep group, is so important to have a good established relationship because we bring so much more to what you're doing. You get to worry about your day-to-day as a dealer. Let us be the opportunity to do the research and present it in a in a fashion that shows you the value for your investment to bring it into your into your business. You know, I'm blessed that I live eight minutes from my former distribution branch. Um I've got so many dealers in my backyard that I've had a relationship now with for three years, some that really don't do anything with us because there's not a lot of brands that fit what they're doing. And I still stop in and see them. Housing's what are you know, what's going on? I want to make sure my face stays in front of them because they know their business is my priority. So if something does come up that they change their mind about bringing in API, cool. I'm gonna when I see Mike next time, I'm gonna ask him about it because I know he's the API rep. It's about being front front forward and having their interests first and making sure that you keep it first in everything that you do and never taking advantage of that good relationship. Always take it as gratitude. I'm so grateful for my dealers that they do business with me. I'm still grateful that they let me in their front doors. Um because they don't have to. It's another dealer rep. Yeah, you know, I don't have time for them. But I also, when I go in, I don't just I don't just sell stuff. If they're busy, I'll still go in and say, hey, let me do some carryouts. They need chlorine loaded up, I'll go load the chlorine, or I'll go load the bags of sand, or you know, you need somebody to help behind the water lab, I can do that too. Uh my value, my value goes beyond being a sales rep. My value is about being being an asset, being being their their best unpaid asset from their payroll.

SPEAKER_07 39:01

What would you say? Um, what makes a dealer easy or difficult to support? Let's get a little raw. Not willing to try new things, not willing to try and do things would be difficult.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Yeah, I mean, you it well, we've done it this way. This is how we always do it. You know, crunch. Yeah, we've always been supportive of this brand. You know, for years we've always supported this brand, so we don't bring anything else in. And and I understand loyalty. Loyalty is amazing, but at the same token, having an open mindset to new opportunities that can bring value to your business. Now, I do have to temper that a little bit because some dealers are looking for growth. Other dealers are looking other dealers are just looking to maintain. And I have great respect for both. And I always tell dealers if you're good where you're at, please just let me know. I will respect it and I will do whatever everything I can to help you just maintain where you're at. I I appreciate that. But if you're somebody who's hungry and wants more business, cool. Let's have let's have some deep conversations about X, Y, and Z and see how my brands now and in the future can bring more value, you know, where you're at. And the upside for for me, I I like to brag. I can get along with the devil himself.

SPEAKER_07 40:19

I I you are very you are very uh I would say you're very cheerful always.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

I appreciate that. Very for me, it's it's adaptability. I have a personality that I I took it on. You know what? And I don't like the shield even sound so much like I I just I never take anything personally. You know, if a dealer throws something at me, I you're frustrated, you're angry, I I don't know, maybe your your dog died yesterday. I I don't know. So I don't take it personally. I'll come home and I'll vent, you know, about X, Y, or Z. I mean, we're human, but I look at anybody in any situation they're in is that I don't know what would happen before I walked in their door. And so true. I just have to adapt to whatever's going on. And I had a dealer the other day, I was at a tabletop event, hadn't seen her in a little bit, and uh, she's not having a real, real good time with things. Things are kind of rough. And I told her, I said, Well, look, you got my number. I said, You need to call an event, call me, call me event. I mean, I'm no different than the guy that you met a year and a half ago as a BDR. I said, I'm still here to help with that. And sure as she called me yet the day before yesterday, and just having a struggle. And I'm like, hey, let me let me see what I can do to help you with, you know, that even just being an ear sometimes, you know, especially in this industry, because they her it's her and her husband that run the business. And so just playing tennis with the frustration between each other, it's not getting any resolution. You're just volleying back and forth. But being able to have somebody you can talk to that's in the industry and understands the struggles you're going through, just to be able to get it out and maybe get a little bit of value back in advice or direction, that's I mean it's big. It's huge.

SPEAKER_07 42:01

And it's yeah, and I think so much of it too, and I think people miss this, is that there is so much customer service related everywhere. And I tend to have to sometimes remind myself if I'm if I'm speaking with someone and they get a little snippy, I'm like, you know what? This really has nothing to do with me. It might have been what happened before me. It might they might have gotten a nasty email, or maybe they've just they have a really stressful project on their desk or what have you, or even, you know, in my own before this morning, my husband had called me and I had something going on and I was like, I can't talk right now. Click. And then after I was like, oh, well, that would probably wasn't the very that wasn't the nicest thing. And I called him back and he's like, nope, no, no, I know what you're doing right now. Love you. I'll talk to you later. And I was like, okay, bye. But you know, you're absolutely right. You just don't know 99% of the time, I really don't think it has anything to do with you unless you were that one that was sending that nasty email.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

I mean, for the for that 1%, the only time that I will push back is in those 1% that are just going on an expletive latent tyrant on me, and I'll go, look, we're obviously in a bad spot. I'm gonna leave you right now, I'm gonna let you cool off, and we'll we'll catch up later. Like I'm not I'm not here to get belittled, you know. I'm I'm here, I'm here as a I'm here to help. I'm not your enemy. You know, I'm gonna do the best that I can, but I also preface it with saying, I'm also human, I'm gonna make mistakes, you know. And I hopefully I don't make it so badly that it causes you any harm or any profitability or anything like that. I said, but I'm here, I'm here to help. And I'd like to think that how I help outweighs considerably the mistakes that I may have made. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:39

I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've I've written an email and I've let it sit draft overnight just to be sure. And the next morning I'm like, Yeah, you know, we're not gonna send that. We're gonna re completely rewrite that because I'm in a very different mind frame this morning, and I probably don't need to yep.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

So Sometimes you gotta figure out a way to leave a motion at the door.

SPEAKER_07 43:56

Well, here's a good one. Um, and you and I both mentioned this earlier. We Like this one. And it was reps only show up when they want to sell something.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

So I can only speak from personal experience. And I get to speak on both sides because I've been a dealer and I've had reps show up. And when most of the reps that I had come in and see me at Caribbean, it was always always about something new product-wise. And you know, and I'm unfortunately or unfortunately, I always give everybody the opportunity to make their pitch. Even if I already know from the get-go, it's not something I'm interested in. I am I understand everything that goes into the pitch, and being just told immediately not interested, have a nice day. I just don't believe in that. I give everybody the opportunity because maybe there is something there that I'm not seeing from the immediate introduction. Maybe they say something in the pitch and go, oh, wait a second. Now I got to consider that. But my experience with reps coming in was always they were just trying to sell something. However, I made sure that when I became a BDR, that I wasn't just going to go in and just sell stuff. I wanted to go in and see how they were doing. The most important aspect of everything that I do is, how are you guys doing? How's business going? How are you doing? How's your families doing? Because I try to get to know who their families are and the things that they're doing. You know, I've got dealers that were on weight loss journeys. So when I would go in, how's how's your weight loss journey going? I stopped bringing in sweets and I'd bring in fruit. You know, I'd bring in, I made sure to cater to what was going on. And in some cases, I never talk about anything product-wise. I just want to stop in and say hi. You know, same thing that I got from my customers at Caribbean. They just wanted to come in and see how we were doing. I wanted to have that same relationship. So from me and from the the reps that you know that I know personally, um, and especially my colleagues here with the grit game, we're not just here to sell you something. We're we are here to help your business in any way that we can. And realistically, that helps starts with checking the pulse of the individuals that are running the business.

SPEAKER_07 46:04

That's yeah, most important aspect. Well, and I'll say, so, you know, much of what I've done in this industry is relationship-based. It's networking. And when I first came over to the grit game, I, you know, it was a bit of a learning curve, I won't lie. But you guys, the grit game and the team here, there is so much knowledge. And, you know, the the people that are out there on the ground that are working with all of these different partners and products. And you're absolutely right. It's I I would say a lot of it is, well, first off, I would say it's relationship-based, right? They're not out there selling the product. They, a good sales rep is out there understanding the product, understanding how it works inside and out, and understanding if that product would make sense first and foremost for that particular customer.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

100%.

SPEAKER_07 46:55

That's what I'm seeing.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Yeah, you have to do your research. You know, before I go visit a dealer, if it's somebody I've never seen, I look and see do they have a website. You know, you know, with with our CRM system, you know, going back and seeing what other uh interactions have been, what the conversations have been. You know, knowing knowing what you're getting yourself into instead of just going in completely blind makes such a big difference. And especially if you go in and you're talking to a dealer and you start dropping little tidbits about what they've done and jobs they've done or you know, interactions that they've had, you know, that goes a long way. Like you you've done your research. You came in here and you were prepared to talk to me about things that make sense for my business. And I always leave it with here's the line card and here's the things that we talked about. Keep in mind, there are a lot more things on here that may or may not fit your business right now. But it doesn't mean that there isn't an opportunity maybe down the line that it makes more sense for you. So uh yeah, it's it's I obviously you can tell I love talking about this.

SPEAKER_07 47:58

I I can, but I like it. I always I always love having a good conversation with someone who has that drive and that passion. Well, here's one, and it's dealers don't need reps involved in planning or forecasting.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

Big false, because we we are the liaison between the dealer and the manufacturers. There are very there are very few dealers that I think have direct contacts with their manufacturers. Caribbean is kind of an outlier. Uh they had a lot of relationships built with manufacturers early on because they had to, because distribution wasn't really a thing for them, you know, in the in the 80s and 90s, so they developed their relationships directly. Uh and so when distribution came about, and I found out this a little bit the hard way, we kind of interfered with with what they had going on. So you kind of had to navigate that. Like they already knew what they were doing. So like just let me know if you need any help with it. But, you know, for example, API is is a big one. Um API isn't a company that just manufactures chemicals upon chemicals and has them stored in massive warehouses. They're more about bottling up, bucketing up things more to order than just a store to ship. And there's great value in that because it means you're getting the freshest product coming to your door versus things that have been sitting in a warehouse for a year or two. Um but the only way that they can do that is by dealers and distribution being ahead of the game, knowing that, okay, you know, June of 2025, we went through X amount of product. So June of 2026, now that Mike's in the area, we're seeing a bump in API products. We need to bump our order from what we saw in June of last year to June of this year, and get that order in like in early May, you know, or even late April, so that that's in the that's already like racked into the man the manufacturing lineup. So there's no delays, that they're getting the product in a timely fashion, so dealers aren't waiting for it to show up, versus you sold out five days ago, you put your order in today, and you're not in the line for the next 50 orders that are coming in, and now you're not seeing it for four to six weeks. So, you know, having us knowing, you know, from our manufacturers what lead times are looking like, you know, where where's product manufacturing at? You know, um procurement, procurement of the goods to make things, you know, with the way things are you know in this world right now, things are a bit in delay. So you may not see something being manufactured right away because they're waiting on parts. And that's for us then as reps then to go back in and let dealers know hey, this is in stock, this is not. Expectation is it'll be back in stock in four to six weeks. I st don't don't wait four to six weeks to put your order in, though. Put your order in today so you can get you know racked in the line to get that as soon as it's ready to ship. So that's that's a huge important factor for us as the reps of these manufacturers to be able to give that information to our dealers so that they're not left just wondering where the heck is my product.

SPEAKER_07 50:57

Well, and you can also communicate too if a large order is going to be placed so they can better prepare.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_07 51:04

Yeah. Well, we have a couple more, and it kind of falls into this. It's market share grows naturally if the product is good.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

That's a tough one. I think when it comes to if there's a really good product out there, yeah, you've got it on the shelf. It the box doesn't talk. The product doesn't talk. It's not just selling itself. It's got to be, you're either hearing it word of mouth from somebody who bought it, experienced with it, and had a great experience or a bad experience, or somebody who's in the store is really key on it, so they really focus in on it, they really sell the heck out of it. Or us as reps, we're really high on a product. You know, it it the product is good, makes it, I'll be honest, the product being really good makes it easy to sell it to grow the market share. If it's not a great product, it may take a little bit more effort, or if it's a very niche product, you know, not everybody's gonna buy into it. I mean, every dealer is gonna buy pumps, regardless of who they're buying it from. So if you have a great pump and it does shows great value, H2Flow's Nodus VSF, for example, is so different than what's out there, but it can't sell on its own. We have to talk about the value that it provides, what it does differently than other pumps that are out on the market. So, yeah, I mean, great products don't sell themselves. There has to be people behind it, there has to be a movement behind it to really uh push that and start to take over market share from products that have been on the on the playing field for a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_07 52:33

Why do you think that some great products still struggle in the market?

SPEAKER_03 52:36

I don't know how much visual there's going to be on there, but because a lot of people are doing this when they're walking through their business. They've got blinders.

SPEAKER_07 52:42

They got those blinders.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

All they see is what they've done. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_07 52:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

If it's been successful, that's okay. But for the ones that take the blinders off, you know, it's kind of like Wizard of Oz when when Dorothy arrives from Kansas into Oz and she opens up the door and you go from black and white to color, you're like, holy mackerel! Like I I couldn't have imagined being in a theater when that movie first came out and seeing that from black and white to color, how incredible that would have been to see that there's a whole nother world now from black and white to technicolor. And for I know and for us in this industry, it's we've been in the black and white for so long. So many things haven't changed, and this is just how we do it. But being able to open their eyes up to technocolor and saying, but there's so much more. Like just give it a chance. I'm like, I'm not telling you to change your entire business plan, but I'm just give me a shot. Yeah, try one or two, see how it goes. I think that's where the hard part is, is that we we unfortunately are very we're we're habitual. We do the same thing, we order with repetition. You know, I love I keep dropping all these movie references, Sean of the Dead, you know, the beginning of that movie. Everybody's just doing the same thing in day in and day out, day in and day out. And I feel sometimes that's where we're at in the industry. People just keep doing the same thing. And that's okay if it's working for you, but there's so much more that can help it even be better.

SPEAKER_07 54:03

So you know, I have I have to say I do love your uh Wizard of Oz mention because that was actually my first pair of shoes when I was little was the Ruby Red slippers. My first ever pair of shoes. I love that. Our last one, believe it or not, I want to get into, and it kind of goes into this. And it's sales growth is all about promotions and discounts.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

I'm gonna separate them.

SPEAKER_07 54:25

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

I'm gonna start with discounts. I hate discounts.

SPEAKER_07 54:28

You hate discounts.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

I hate discounts. Really?

SPEAKER_07 54:29

Because the consumers love them.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

The reason that I hate discounts is people discount stuff sooner than they should because they don't see product moving.

SPEAKER_07 54:39

That is true. I I would agree, or they discount them so much that I think it it hurts the product.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Correct. And they end up discounting stuff because they failed to promote it correctly. So promotion is about getting out there with your megaphone, getting out there on your Facebook page, getting out there and putting, you know, the the knowledge out to the masses that are coming into your store. And if you're not blasting that on the megaphone, then you're gonna end up having to do the discounts. Discounts should be products that uh have been sitting for a long period of time that even with all the promotion in the world, it still isn't moving. That's the time to discount stuff and get it out and discount it quick. Like if you know it's not moving, like toys are a great example in this area. You know, we have a small window of opportunity in the Midwest for inflatables. If you haven't sold 50% of your inflatable stock by Memorial Day, you're in a tough spot. So immediately what happens is the dealers start discounting after Memorial Day. Don't do that. July 4th is still coming.

SPEAKER_07 55:43

Yeah, I was gonna say it rained all weekend here in Knox in Tennessee for Memorial Day weekend.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Start promoting. Promoting means we've got the greatest toys, we've got the most unique toys, we've we've got things in Walmart and Target, and these guys don't have. Like that's promotion. And I think people mistake promotion for discount. Promotion is just about being excited about something and showing it. Yeah, discounting is about getting rid of old dead inventory so you don't have to deal with it any longer. That's all that's about. So for me, you know, promotions, you know, in in the Midwest is huge. You've got a short window of time, you've got to be able to promote. And when you promote something, you're pr you've got to get behind it and be excited. Apple is a great example of how promotions work exquisitely. When Apple goes to release a new product, a new iPhone, a new iPad, new Mac, their promotion starts months in advance. Sometimes just a black screen with a date. That's it. You don't know what you you're like, you've seen it, you're like going, new product's coming. What is it? What's it gonna be? What's it gonna be like? And then they continue that promotion line, and the promotion date becomes an event. And now it does want to go to the event. You know, even if they're not gonna buy it, they're just excited. I want to go to this event, I want to experience it, see how it's gonna be. That is promotion done absolutely superbly. Dealers should look at that and how Apple does that, how Nike does that, how some of these big brands do, and then take it and then scale it to make sense for their business. You know, do big promotions, have big events. At Caribbean, my wife did one, it was called Ohana Day. You know, we're in the tap into tap into Moana or Lilo and Stitch, Lilo and Stitch, and they did Ohana Day, and we cooked out and we had face painting and we had Icy's and and things, but we didn't have discounts on anything. We promoted an event to get people to come into the store and see what we had, and then we promoted the products that were in the store. So you promotion is not discounting, promotion is about getting people excited about who you are, what you offer, and how you can best serve them in in the pool and backyard industry.

SPEAKER_07 57:58

So then we move on to discounts. Yeah, discounts you're gonna break it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Discounts are if you've got things priced right in your store, you'll never have to discount anything.

SPEAKER_07 58:09

I would agree with that. I do agree. And I do agree that I think people move too quickly to discount. And I always sit back and kind of giggle to myself when I see people slashing their prices against each other, and they're like one cent under. And I'm just like, okay, you're you're one cent under your competition.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

Um I mean, I worked for I worked for Walmart for six and a half years, and I don't know if anybody ever paid any attention. Walmart back in the late 90s and early 2000s, they didn't put out print ads. They put out one print ad every month. It was always the first week of the month they did a print ad. The other three weeks of the year, when you first walked into a Walmart, they don't really have this anymore, but there was an aisle that was a competitive shop aisle. So you took some of the hottest things, Credo Light, Pepsi, whatnot. And as a department manager, we were responsible for shopping our competition. So we would go to the other local similar stores like Walmart and we would scan items and we'd plug in the price, and we'd come back to Walmart and and we'd plug it in, and it would immediately drop our price just below theirs. And then we would cut out their ad that they put out every Sunday and we'd put it on the aisle with the product showing what the local competition's price was and what our price was.

SPEAKER_07 59:22

Was that like 10 years?

SPEAKER_03 59:23

I was there from I was there from 1997 to 2003.

SPEAKER_07 59:27

So maybe I do vaguely remember something like that.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

Okay. But yeah, I mean when it comes to discounts though, I if you're priced right, if you're providing value to your customers when they come in that makes sense why you're priced where you're at, your your customers are gonna be fine with it. And they're not everyone, you're gonna have the ones who are like, well, I can get it, you know, like this online, I can get it for this price. My argument's like, okay, and you'll have it tomorrow or you'll have it the day after. I said, but I have it on the shelf today, and your pool needs it today. So it's up to you how you want to go about that.

SPEAKER_07 59:59

Right. Well, and I always get concerned too when you see a product that's being massively discounted. I'm like, Why is it discounted? Why are you massively discounted? How long has it been sitting there? When my and my other thing, too, is when is it going to expire?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:13

When is it gonna expire? I mean, that's always my biggest concern.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

And toys and floats are a hard one too, because that vinyl has been subjected to chlorine air in the retail store. So it's degrading that vinyl. You don't know, like when you pull it out, it's creased, and when you go to inflate it, it immediately cracks or splits. So again, it's you know, you buy something for 20 bucks from distribution and you want to try and get $60 out of it. It's you probably need to look at your pricing format because you're not you're trying to make a mint off of a single product versus making a good margin on a product that you're gonna see more movement of that product out your door versus sitting on those six units you bought that you never sold.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:53

So I could not agree more. Well, and it's we actually we bought a I bought an inflatable shark, or maybe it was a whale pull last year. I think it was from like Costco last year for my kids. And I take full credit, I did not properly put it away last year. I think it's been under our deck for about a year. And my husband was like, Well, are we gonna pull it out and clean it? And I'm like, No, we're gonna get rid of it when the kids aren't home because it's it's definitely I there's there's no cleaning. It's probably beyond repair. Just like take it to the dump.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

I got the perfect solution for you. You wait for a really, really, really stupid windy, stormy day.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

And it blew away.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

And it blew away. Not sure where it went.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:38

Yeah, yeah. I I don't even I'm just gonna have my husband put in the back of his ram and take it to the dump. I don't even like I don't know what like creature has like started to grow or what have you under there. But I mean, it was a great pool while it lasted, but I'm like, goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:53

And a lot of that stuff is actually meant for a single season. Not everything's meant to be used repeatedly.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:58

Yeah, well, my husband, I I definitely didn't let my husband know that when I bought it. Uh but do you know the kids had a great time and he's like, Well, what are we gonna do this year? And I'm like, slip and slide, that's what this year is. It's a slip and slide summer.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

I saw uh a clip the other day, somebody kickball slip and sliding kitty pools. So all the base, all the base paths were slip and slides, and then each base was a kiddie pool. So you literally ran down, you hit the slip and slide, you slid in and dove into the kiddie pool to try and be safe at the base. Like it was a lot of it looks like a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:32

Both. Actually, I think our slip and slide is still set up in the backyard. I could definitely I we have both. So four and six year old, they'll be fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:43

No life ground on duty. No. But okay. I love this. Well, Michael, this has been a fun and awesome conversation. I think we busted a lot of myths today. We gave people a real behind the scenes look at what it actually takes to grow in this in this industry from dealer relationships and forecasting to distribution and the role that a great sales rep really plays. So, do you have anything that you would want to or want to leave our listeners with before we kind of wrap up today?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

Well, first, I'm gonna I'm gonna say thank you to you for blessing me with the opportunity to come on here and talk about these things because I am very passionate about it. And for for all my dealers and my distribution partners and my manufacturing partners, I love y'all. I'm here to help you build your businesses in any way that I can. I want to represent you well and I want to see you grow in the manner in which you want to grow. And the only way that you're gonna do that is getting outside of your comfort zone. Plants don't grow in the same pot that they started in. They gotta be replanted, repotted, new soil, new opportunity, and they just have to be continued to be watered and cultivated in order to experience the growth they need. So our businesses and in this industry are no different. And as Ben Johnson, head coach of the Chicago Bears, said, let's get comfortable being uncomfortable and let's see if we can have some fun.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:59

And hey, it's it's gardening season. Well, about getting there. So well, thank Michael, thank you again for joining us and sharing your experience and insight. And to everyone tuning in, thank you for listening to the Talking Pools podcast, your go-to source for everything wet, wild, and wonderfully misunderstood in the pool world. I'm Natalie Hood. Until next time, guys.