Mastering HR in Small Pool Businesses - Mondays Down Under

In this episode, Heidi Weeks from Peppermint HR shares expert insights on HR best practices for small businesses, especially in the pool industry. Topics include compliance, structuring, connection, and practical tips for building a strong HR foundation.

keywords

HR, small business, pool industry, compliance, employee engagement, HR policies, team management, HR tips

key topics

• HR compliance and award classifications
• Building organizational structure and clarity
• Creating connection and engagement with staff

takeaways

• Start with compliance: pay rates, contracts, policies.
• Embed simple HR systems early to support growth.
• Regular communication and feedback are crucial.
• Know your staff personally to motivate and retain.

guest name

Heidi Weeks

Sound Bites

• "Know your award and pay rates"
• "Establish clear HR processes"
• "Create a family culture"

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to HR in the Pool Industry

02:29
Unique Challenges in the Pool Industry

04:53
The Importance of HR from Day One

07:41
Three Pillars of HR: Confidence, Clarity, and Connection

10:00
Building Confidence through Compliance

12:47
Establishing Clarity in HR Processes

15:31
Fostering Connection for High Performance

17:56
Navigating the Employer-Friend Dynamic

20:31
Common HR Mistakes and Easy Fixes

23:25
Engaging Employees for Better Retention

26:02
Conclusion and Resources

Resources

• Peppermint HR Website
• HR Foundations Guide
• HR Health Check Quiz

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, good whatever time of the day it is. You are listening to Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pools podcast. I'm Lee and it's great to have you with us. Of course, I am joined by my Queensland counterpart, Nick. Hey Nick, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Yeah, good thanks, Lee. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Very well, thank you. Unfortunately, Shane's not with us today. His wife is unwell, so he's not able to join us. But we have a very special guest today. We have Heidi Weeks from Peppermint HR. Hey Heidi, thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. So for our listeners, Heidi not only is a HR specialist, but she actually has years of industry experience. So we thought, who better to sort of help us with a few general HR questions than somebody who not only is a HR specialist, but also is an industry experienced expert too. So Heidi, let's start by telling us a few things about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Okay. Well, as you said, Lee, I'm a Brisbane-based HR consultant. I've spent all a bit over two decades working in the people and culture space. And for the last 10 years, I've also been the co-owner of one of the largest pull-shops in Australia. So over that 10 year span, we've gone from about five employees to almost 30 staff now, with about five million in turnover. So this has taken a lot of work for our team to build and to grow. But I think it's largely been achieved by getting our people systems right. And it's because of that sort of experience, is why I've decided to launch Peppermint HR this year so I can support other businesses to do the same.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Fantastic. And I think, well, from a pool industry perspective, it's actually really valuable that has to be able to engage somebody that actually understands how our businesses operate and the uniqueness that comes with that. What do you see as some of the things that make the pool industry a little bit different than your typical industry?

SPEAKER_02 2:58

What I've found in my experience is that, I mean, in turn, I think a lot of small businesses are very similar in that it's not that they struggle with HR because they don't care about their people. They do, in fact, care about their people a lot and they know how critical it is that they have the right people and the right jobs throughout the business. But I think a lot of business owners actually find the world of HR a little bit messy and complex and sort of time consuming. So I, yeah, I think every business has its own unique challenges within the pool industry. I think you've got employees probably covered by two awards, and you've got retail staff and you've got service techs in the field. So you're kind of grappling with those sort of compliance areas. I think building teams and communicating with staff can be a little bit challenging because we often work very autonomously, particularly with our techs on the road. What else? I think also systems can be hard to embed in a business. I know personally, having grown a business, we like to be agile and adaptive and respond to the needs of the industry and our customers. But it's really important that we come back to embedding good systems so that when you've got your HR systems ticking along nicely in the background, the business can grow and take off. And you haven't, you're not limited by those sort of people issues that you might encounter.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Yeah, absolutely. I I would imagine, like I know, Nick, your business you've indicated happened the same way as our business. We tend to grow organically. Of course, when you grow organically, you can drop the ball on a few things that you probably should have in place. Do you see that with pool industry businesses? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Growth can is exciting. And I think shiny things are very attractive. So putting all your efforts into cash flow and marketing and getting out and getting the jobs done and bringing in income often take priority. And it's all great until suddenly you lose somebody who's critical to the business and you don't have a succession plan in place. You don't know where they're going to, where you're going to backfield that role from. You may have overlooked upskilling your people to be able to sustainably service more clients. Yeah, so I think certainly getting those structures in place again, knowing having a key, I guess, position oh, well, I guess an organizational structure in place to support that sort of growth is fairly critical. And that's something we've done in our business. Very early on, we made sure that everyone had position descriptions, we had an organizational chart, we've built in some reporting lines so that when you've got dirty staff, they can't all report to the general manager. You need to have people, leaders in place to ensure that people don't get overlooked, um, they're supported, they don't get sort of lost in the noise. So, yeah, there's a lot of sort of structural aspects there.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yes. Because you sort of would find, well, I know I found you employ that first person, and then you're so busy trying to fill their day with work, keep them employed, keep the m the jobs rolling in and the money. And next minute you created more work for the business, and the business is growing further, and you're needing a second person. And before you know it, you've got a small team and you don't have any job descriptions and you don't have employment contracts. Probably like, yes, you've probably done the paperwork that you need to do, like your tax documents and superannuation and and those sort of things, but that's probably it. You haven't done the full process. Is HR something businesses should be looking at right from their the get-go before they employ somebody and make sure that they've got those policies and procedures in place?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Yeah, absolutely. I think kind of having a strategy with how you want to manage your people too. I think that's sort of being clear on your values as a business, because when you're hiring people, you need to make sure that you are hiring people that are aligned with your values. So even before you sort of start building the ranks, you want to make sure that, yeah, you know who you're after, the skill set, and also that cultural fit. But certainly from day one, um, if you can get those sort of template contracts correct, you build out a sort of a suite of some really just essential policies. Um, and you've sort of got you you understand things like your award classification, minimum pay rates, that sort of stuff, that build builds a foundation, I guess, um, as you grow. So you're kind of building on it piece by piece, um rather than sort of reaching a stage where you think, oh my goodness, I have 15 staff and I've got nothing in in place. If certainly there's yeah, start small, but don't put it off.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah. So Nick, I would say, like, having been somebody who was basically born in a cot at the back of the shop, like but all seriousness, you came in as a junior at 15 and now you're GM of the business where you work. Did you take those processes through your business? And does your business have those sort of things in place?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, we went through all of those challenges as we grow. And while you're in the business, it's so hard to see what's going on with it. And before you know it, it it just changed and it was it had grown. And from there it was like, okay, we need to get these things in place, and so it's not so daunting every time we get someone or lose someone, and it's the the time inputted into it, it just makes everything run so much easier.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Because otherwise you're reinventing the wheel every time you're employing a new person.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

So you simply don't need to.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Oh, no, that's right. So, Heidi, what are some of the key areas of HR that pool industry businesses need to be aware of or that they can work a framework that they can work with?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Okay, awesome. Think, given the complexity of HR, it can get a little overwhelming. So I do try to think of it, I guess aligned with sort of three key pillars. If you can sort of think of three C words confidence, clarity, and connection. So if I'm happy for me to I'll dive in the confidence first, I'll get on my roll now. So confidence, it's that's essentially just about your compliance. It's knowing that you've got your basics sorted, you're protecting your business. Because Lee, at the end of the day, if you're not paying your people right, nothing else matters in HR. The I guess the issue we face is that Australia works well, Australia has one of the most complex industrial relations systems in the world. So we have 121 modern awards, we've got the Fair Works Act, Fair Work Act, the National Employment Standards. Um, so Fair Work doesn't turn a blind eye to small businesses thinking that it's only the big businesses that matter. They're very clear that ignorance is not defense when it comes to small businesses. So in terms of compliance, things I see are things like award classifications not being applied correctly. So knowing your award and what level within that award your people sit at. Things like pay rates, obviously your award will guide your minimum pay rates, but that you need to take into account your penalty rates. Um if your salary, if you employ people on a salary type basis, that better off overall tests that I hope most people will be looking at. That also this actually needs to be reviewed regularly because as pay rates change, um, obviously your salaries need to be adjusted to make sure you're well above that minimum standard. Um and just can I just talk on pay rates? The Fair Work Commission is almost due to release its new pay rates for their minimum wage rates for next financial years. So um I think the union unions are pushing for about 4.5%. So we'll see what that comes out as. Then there's also Payday Super coming up. And a thing to keep on the read radar will be that um junior rates for 18 year olds and above who have served in the business for more than six months will no longer be applicable for or valid for um age rates. So these are little things that you kind of need to keep on top of, particularly when you're looking at your pay rates and making sure that they remain compliant.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

So I understand obviously retail's easy because that just comes under the retail award, which is nice and easy, but it's the manufacturers and associated industries for our service technicians. It sounds so weird because my son is a welder, a heavy metal welder fabricator, and he comes under the same award. It's like so weird.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Well, 10 years ago when we first entered the industry, I asked around and I could not get a clear answer on which award to pay our service techs under. It was so confusing. And so eventually I got a you know, a lawyer to to confirm. And Fairwork, there is a page on the Fairwork Ombudsman web page that confirms that. So yes, but very broad, that manufacturing award for sure. Yeah, yeah, very strange.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

So getting back to the C's, we've covered confidence. So that brings us to clarity.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

That was the next one. Clarity. That's all structure and systems, and I think this is where most businesses feel that day-to-day friction. So we're talking things like unclear roles and expectations in the workplace, inconsistent processes when it comes to applying for leave or whatnot, all different standards for different employees, which is always gonna open you up for things like risks with bullying, harassment, and um all those sort of things we want to avoid. Um, and what happens is obviously teams get frustrated because they don't know what the goalposts are. And at the end of the day, if your team actually doesn't know what good performance looks like, they're not gonna be able to deliver to that standard. So when I talk about clarity, it's just establishing some simple processes around your HR. So your clear position descriptions, um, clear performance expectations, consistent policies in place, and maybe not making things up on the fly. Again, like I said, we like to be agile and sort of go where we need to be, but this is where structure is really important as well. And on that, can I just say that simple structures will always outperform complex ones if they're the ones that people actually stick to? Because when they are overcomplicated, people will not stick to the structure and the system.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Like obviously, there's legislation and regulations that we need to abide by in those processes and procedures. But would that be something that would be a good thing to bring that um the team in on if you're creating new processes or guidelines, I suppose, that the business is going to operate under?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, absolutely. The Fair Work Act really focuses on a lot of consultation with employees. So the more that you can do that and get their buy-in, their feedback, you don't always have to take everything on board and, you know, implement it. We need to be consultative so that we understand where our employees sit and respond to their concerns or their ideas fairly and and reasonably. And can I just on the topic of documentation as well, Lee? Um, something that I do find in a lot of businesses is that it's not that they do the wrong thing. It's actually that they're doing the right thing, but they can't prove it. And so um I just tell a lot of people, if it's not documented, it didn't happen in business. Um and that's gonna be your safety net. So anything that you do, particularly if it's, you know, maybe a legal compliance type requirement, document it, make a file note somewhere, even if it's just a simple email to yourself, title it file note. That way you've got the date stamp on it, you can search it in your inbox, but just yeah, that's probably one of the biggest things I see people doing the right thing, but they can't prove that they did it. And so, yes, document as much as you can.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I actually I see the same thing in the training space. So with my IR Learning hat on, um, a registered training organization, and doing RPL with students, so recognized prior learning. They have toolbox talks, but they don't document them. So they're having these meetings with their with their staff members, and and that often includes things like work, health, and safety and HR items that are very easily documented, but they don't map the note. So they've got no evidence that they've happened. So it is absolutely um so important. And it's just habit forming.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

If you can just it can implement it as a habit, soon enough it becomes easy and just automated and um protect you in the business.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

I'm always big for consulting team because, like you said, it's how you create buying and they see things from a different perspective than than we do. And I'm actually reading a a book at the moment called The Unreasonable Hospitality. And I only earmarked this today, and it actually says, unfortunately, when you lose the viewpoint of the people you are responsible for managing, you also tend to lose your empathy for them. And I thought that was really a point given what we're discussing. You need their viewpoint, you need to understand where they're coming from, you need to know what they're struggling with or or what's not working for them so that you can fix it. And if you don't address those things, you become festering, sores become festering wounds, become um an infection that you can't get rid of, and and that person ends up leaving because they're unhappy about something that started out so small. So um I think it's it's really important to to create that that trust and that vulnerability by bringing them in and and valuing them. I think that's the biggest thing of all. You're showing them that they're important, their opinion matters, that you value what they've got to bring to the team. And um, yeah, so so so important.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Absolutely. I like to say that if um you're asking how long, how much or how regularly you should be checking with your people, the answer is probably not as uh probably not as few times as you think. It's it's more than you actually think. You need to be regular engaging with them. And I think that to be honest, almost every issue or problem in business is a communication problem. Um can become a HR problem, but ultimately, whether it's with customers, with your people, with your suppliers, if you get back to the communication and you get that right in the first place, boy, does it avoid so much grief later down the track. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

And that's a really good leeway into the next one, which is connection.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Absolutely. Yes. So connection is just all about people and performance. And like I've said to you before, Lee, this is my favorite part because um this is the people side, and this is where you create a really high-performing team. You can have great compliance, really clear systems, but you can still have a disengaged team. Um, and so this is where you'll get the difference between someone who actually just turns up, turns up to work for their paycheck versus someone who actually cares about the business and your customers. I think a lot of leaders struggle or can struggle with this because it's more along the lines of things like giving feedback, having those difficult conversations, and like you said before, like just checking with your team regular and communicating with them. And again, it doesn't have to be complicated. Toolbox talks, regular check-ins, giving regular, genuine feedback to your people. And that's both positive feedback and constructive feedback because the research shows that high-performing teams experience significantly more positive feedback than constructive feedback, which basically means you need for every sort of constructive conversation you have about underperformance or an issue, you need to be matching that with five positive feedback conversations. So that's a big load. And I don't think most and many of us actually achieve that, but that's the goal. They used to call that a shit sh shit sandwich, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Like two two nice things and the bad thing in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Yes. I think if we can separate the positives and the negatives or the the constructive conversations, yes. But it's just I think it's just be intentional about it. We are so busy that until there's a problem, we don't address it. And so, you know, if people don't know they're doing the right thing, how do they know to keep doing it? Yes, exactly. Let's keep those sort of you know, and again, I come back to systems, find a way to systemize this because if you're just working on best intentions, we're human and it's probably not going to hit the marks. So um try and find a way to to re systemise that feedback channel.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

We can't assume that they can read our minds because often we might think they're doing a great job and I really appreciate them, but do we actually take the time to verbalise it? And it's so simple to do, easy to do, and it goes such, such a long way.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

And there's there's very powerful ways you can deliver feedback based on the personality type of your employees. So the more you know your people and their what they value and their motivators, you'll be able to give better, more effective feedback. So you've got your sort of introverts or I um deliver disc workshops. So we look at sort of different sort of behavioral styles and your compliance-style people, they don't want public recognition. They would be just mortified if you were to um bring them up in front of a team meeting and applaud them and yeah, do a big shout-out. But if you were to specifically speak to them and tell them exactly what it was they did well and the impact of that, that's going to speak volumes. So again, it's it's taking that the next step of yeah, giving feedback in a way that meets the person where they're at and and what resonates the best.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, like you say, they're all individuals. Everybody's aspect that they that motivates them or encourage them and even discourages them is different. And so actually knowing what works for that particular staff member. I I remember I had one fellow in particular who was absolutely awesome at his job, but he found that me give him giving him any extra jobs or changing his job schedule for tomorrow after 3 pm today gave him severe anxiety and just destroyed his day. And so he actually we sat down and had a conversation and he said, Look, this is what works for me. And I went, Okay, I can work with that. Now that I know, I'm very happy to work with this. Because as much as that could be difficult for a business to juggle at times, we all know those last-minute jobs that come in that we want to dish out to the staff, and and that particular staff member might be in that area or whatever the case might be. It really, if it could destroy his day and destroy his mental well-being for that day, then that wasn't something I I wanted to do. So I could, by him letting me know, by me taking that on board, I could adapt how I operated with him to make sure that I was going to get the best out of him and he was going to be happy at his work. So I think, yeah, everybody everybody's different, and we just have to respect that. And as awkward as it can be as an employer, especially when you've got as many staff as the two of you have had, juggling that can can be difficult, but can have huge rewards. Huge rewards. Everybody's individual.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Yes, absolutely. And it's interesting, you could throw money and bonuses at people and it not land. And yet you just adapting the way you manage work, your ways of working or your workflow would land so much more, has more of an impact on that particular employee. So um, yeah, you could be wasting money on bon big bonuses when simply just understanding their needs was exactly what they needed to be satisfied in their work.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, completely. And that's the thing, money isn't everything. Like yes, at the moment, everybody's a bit financially strapped. Um and I'm sure nobody's ever gonna say no to more money, but it m it's not necessarily going to get you the result that you're looking to achieve. I actually had this happen to me in my early before I actually got into the pull and spar industry, funnily enough. I was working in a real estate agency and my boss, we went away to a conference and he came away from it and said, I knew you did a good job, but he said, I really didn't realize how good a job you're you did. do, I'm gonna give you a bonus. And I'm a and so he walked away and he gave me he gave me a percentage of the rent roll income. And I looked at him and went, where's the incentive in that? And he goes, no, no, it's just a bonus. And I went, so I'm getting something for not doing anything extra. And he said, yeah, that's the case. Okay. I was, yeah. I would have happily taken a new computer system, which would have been of benefit to his company. I would have happily worked for towards a bonus so that I had an incentive, but no, he was just throwing money at me. And yeah, it just like you say, different um incentives or changes in the workplace can make all the difference to an employee, not necessarily money driven. Yeah. It's it's interesting. I have seen like lots of you see lots of information about employees don't leave jobs. They leave leaders. They do. And it's generally because of that lack of connection, appreciation, acknowledgement, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

And I think often small business can businesses can feel overwhelmed by we have to compete with these bigger businesses with bigger budgets. We're going to lose staff to roles or opportunities with more money. And I think the research is showing that money matters to a certain point. But beyond that it doesn't really make much of a difference. People would then leave because of yes, how engaged they are with their team, whether they're doing rewarding work, is it purposeful and meaningful? Are they giving given the autonomy to you know forge ahead and make decisions and be trusted. So there's so many different ways we can retain high performing talent without just throwing money at them. And yeah, people will lose will step away from a high paying job for a low one if they know that they're going to get those things. The flexibility even I know without employees the fact that you know they have vehicles uh you know to to work and to be to drive from home to work and back they are given flexibility with work. All those little things are important to people more than the money. Again, like I said there is a point that people do need to live earn a living wage which pays the bills. And so that's varies depending on the person. But um beyond that there are so many things we can look at to really retain our people. The way you find that out is by having a conversation. Absolutely communication solves everything.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Yeah having connection and I love it when I go into a business because it's it's one of the things that I love to do is to sit down with each of the staff individually and have a conversation about where are you at? What do you what do you see as your strengths, what do you see as your weaknesses, doing a typical conversation but then also saying what do you love about your job and what do you hate about your job? We can't necessarily like if you hate servicing pools, we're going to have a problem. But I did actually have two service technicians where one didn't like doing backing and tests and the other one didn't like doing maintenance work. And so it was basically a match made in heaven because I went great I'll give you more maintenance work and I'll give you more testing and backing um because that's what they enjoyed. Like obviously I did say I'll never not be able to like I'm not saying you'll never have to vacant test a pool again or you'll never have to do a maintenance or an install. But wherever possible we will try and accommodate what you enjoy about your job. And then also like you find out what excites them. I had a service technician that was really interested in computers and robotics and that sort of thing. So I went beauty I'm going to pop you straight onto robotic pool cleaners and then we invested in him to learn how to service and repair the the robotic pool cleaners and then once he mastered that then it was like okay let's go on to automation systems. So there was always something to then re-energize him and interest him that was above and beyond the standard back and test.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

So we got a lot of good feedback when you were up Lee with with that exact thing. We we hadn't I hadn't sat down and done it. But yeah when you sat down and done it we got a lot of positive feedback from all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah which is great. And I think too it helps having a third person. So that's where I find when I go in and work with businesses having that person that's not well I was working in the business I was somewhat independent and so they felt like they could open up to me and have those conversations. And obviously I honoured their their privacy but if there was something they didn't want me to to share but in most accounts it was just having that person in the middle to buffer that awkward conversation. They didn't feel comfortable and that's a bit sad like I'm not saying that this happened in Nick's case but where that happens and somebody does feel awkward about having that conversation that actually shows you there's a communication problem. So that certainly wasn't the case with Nick's business. They all had wonderful things actually to say about Nick as a as a GM which was good and I'm a little bit scary. You were probably scared but no that they were all actually and it was funny like we asked them to start a list what do you see as the strengths of the business and Nick's name came up multiple times so which was which was lovely to see because they obviously valued and appreciated and respected his leadership which was really good. So but no I think yeah opening those lines of communication and really getting to to know your staff like do you know when their birthdays are what do you do about their birthdays? Like we actually used to have a point in our business and my team was small so it's probably easier for me to do but we would decorate their car or we would like or decorate their office desk um for their birthday and always had a cake and um we'd try and have like Chinese takeaway lunch or something like that. Just making it it special because you value them and you appreciate them and and I always say all anybody wants in life is to be acknowledged appreciated and valued and they are so easy to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Goes goes a long way. Yes small businesses have such opportunity to do that because yeah in in creating that sense of belonging and being seen um at work the more you grow the more of the challenge that becomes yeah yeah but that that's the benefit of it being small because you do know your people.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Absolutely and it becomes like a family so if they're thinking about leaving it's not like I'm not just leaving the job I'm I'm leaving all my my family behind. Yeah it's not a decision then that's going to be made lightly so actually always find that longevity of staff is a reflection on the culture and the the strength of of the team and the business. But getting back to sort of more HR nitty gritty what are some of the mistakes that you see small businesses make or what are some easy fixes that they can put in place?

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Okay I guess maybe mistakes first and then I'll talk about an action plan you know in terms of if you have to do something today, what to do. Mistakes I think the biggest thing I hear is Heidi, we want to get rid of this person can you like dismiss them? There's no um consultation there's no meetings there's no paperwork there's no documentation and I think so again thankfully a lot of business owners do understand the need to follow due process when it comes to performance management. But I think there is this sort of assumption that oh if I've got a problem I'll just get a HR person come in and get rid of that problem and then we can keep going I I at the end of the day it comes back to what is the root cause of this problem. Let's w see where this went wrong um and we need to create a bit of a plan to to address this. Because what also happens with small businesses there are unfair dismissal like it's a tenure requirement so you need to be with the organization for six months usually to be able to claim unfair dismissal but it's 12 months for the um small business under 15 employees. However there are general protections in place where if an employer has acted sort of a adopted an sorry an adverse action according to these general protection clauses, you still can go get summons to the Fair and Work Commission and we can be dealing with that sort of stuff. So sorry that's a very long answer but it is you just can't get rid of people as simply as some people think. And so a good HR person will protect the business and you as the the business owner or the leader and usually require you to follow due process in that. So that's probably the biggest thing we we see. In terms of first steps if you haven't done any HR strategy or planning or anything again it's the compliance stuff to start with the compliance getting your pay rates right getting an employment contract in place and just checking your workplace health and safety requirements. And if you get that sorted you're gonna sleep well at night because this is the stuff that will keep you up at night but it will it's the stuff that protects the business. So get that in place first. Beyond that I would just say think about one clarity improvement and maybe one connection habit you can embed in the business. So in clarity we're talking about systems and structures again maybe you need a policy look at what your most important policy is that you don't have and just get that in place. And then with connection maybe I guess we're heading towards end of financial year soon. So you might want to schedule some development conversations with your team members. So one-on-ones where you talk about next financial year where how do you want to grow what are your thoughts and ambitions and hopes and dreams that sort of thing so yeah so Decan let's start with compliance tick those boxes it's not a said and forget but at least you've got that um embedded first and then from there just take one or two small little things to embed because if you try to address address everything that's just going to lead to overwhelm.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

So if you're a business that's been in existence for a while maybe you've got a couple of team members now but you haven't put things in place can you all of a sudden put in a a policy or a job description or an employment contract even though those people are already in your employment? How do you go about that?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

With employment contracts that's going to be interesting. There are I guess verbal contracts do exist but best practice and the best thing for everyone is to have a a documented contract. So certainly go there, make sure that you compile that with all the essential clauses that you need in your contract. What I try and say when you're talking about contracts and policies contracts are anything that is like set in stone in your business that is a non-negotiable that's never going to change. If it's going to change or there's it might vary in time, refer to a policy and policies can be updated as you need. Your contract will say you must um abide by all policies and procedures in place and then your policy manual handbook um can be updated. Definitely start with a contract first and foremost get that clear and part of that obviously is you're checking your pay rates and getting that right yeah look at some key policies I can certainly help with that in terms of sort of top 10. You don't need to overwhelm everyone with policies I think it's just the real important stuff that everyone needs to be aware of that if you enter into a you get an issue in terms of performance management or a breach of something, you need to make sure it's clear in your policies. Yeah. Okay. It's anything's possible. And I think again like you said earlier Lee the more you engage your people in this process they you explain that the purpose of this is to ensure that everyone has clarity around these the the employment relationships and policies protect the employer and the employee because if the employee knows the realms of what they're expected to do, they can work within that and feel safe at work. So it works both ways. It's certainly beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yeah I certainly wasn't talking about changing the goalposts that's for sure within sort of employment contract but just documenting really what has been probably a a verbal as you say a verbal agreement that somebody's come on board you've given them their pay rate they've verbally agreed and and things are very unclear. So really just documenting it putting it in place and of course they have the opportunity to sign it or not to sign it. Like again it's it's it's an agreement between two people yeah certainly not talking about changing the goalposts that would be very unfair very very unethical. So one thing I think a lot of people struggle with is when it comes to connection with your team and also trying to get the the best out of them is that fine line between being employer and friend or being I suppose I I liken it to are you a parent or are you a friend? Like you have some parents want to be their kids' best friends, others go no there's a very defined line and I and I think I feel the same with with business. So and I think then if you play the friend card a little bit too much then you can find that some people take advantage of that or employees take advantage of that. So how do you navigate something like that?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Unfortunately you and I I see what you're saying there Lee because I know particularly small businesses that spend their go through summer together really peak times times of stress then they might go to after after work drinks and hang out together and there's that sort of friendship that kind of develops with your colleagues but I think particularly any leader in our business needs to realize that they have to be beyond reproach when it comes to having to enforce policies or breaches in terms of performance or workplace health and safety. I always come back to and even in HR we always I think there's a tendency for people to see us as the sounding board and HR is my counsellor or my therapist but at the end of the day our job is to protect both the business and the employee and work within the law. And I think that's what leaders have to do as well you need to work for what's good the business having strong open relationships with your people is also good for the business and good for your people. But I think you do need to always toe that line because when it gets blurred I think things like favoritism can come into play. So it can get a little bit grey and yeah. But I also acknowledge that a lot of when we spend so much time with our colleagues that they they do become our family or our friends. They yes so that relationship is likely to develop but I think we do need to be professional.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah I think you need to be very clear about those boundaries because some people can have a tendency to take liberties I suppose um or take advantage of a of somebody or or of a boss that they see as a friend more so than as a leader. And as they say the behavior we walk past is the behaviour we accept and if we accept it from one person then it becomes a standard acceptance. So we need to be really careful about that.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yes because we have a duty of a care if we become if we knowingly become aware of things that are happening in the workplace or with our employees we do have that responsibility to to take proactive action to address anything. So um I think it's important that employees understand that too if employee comes employee comes to you and says can I have a conversation off the record it is the response is look happy to chat but you do realize if you raise something that puts you or the rest of our team in if there's a risk there that we need to address I'm gonna have to take action there. Sensitively confidential confidentially yes there is no such thing as an off the record conversation particularly when it comes to anything like harassment or bullying well I think we could keep talking for hours to be quite frank.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

We haven't even scratched some of the topics that we actually thought we we would get to so I hope Heidi that at some point in time you'll come back and join us again. Love that. Most definitely we talked about risk assessment and psychosocial and all sorts of things before um we we s hit the record button and there's so many more things to discuss. But please Heidi share with our listeners if they want to get in touch with you interested in in pursuing HR services with you how do they get in contact?

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Sure well I've got my website pepperminthr.com I can be emailed at info atpeperminthr.com and I think Lee I'll also send you a link to a pretty quick and easy um HR health check quiz that you can include in the show notes. That kind of outlines a lot of the key aspects of those three pillars that we've covered um business owners can have a bit of a check of where they sit according to those three pillars and that also gives you access to my HR foundation's guide which again goes into a little bit more detail about those three pillars that I've covered today.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Fantastic that would be a great resource for our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Thank you so much to the test.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

I'm gonna put the business to the test buying 100% I look forward to it. That's terrific so yes I'll get Rudy to pop all those things in the show notes and uh people can click on those and and get straight to which is fantastic or if anybody has the need they can reach out to us at talkingpools at gmail.com of course if you need anything further from Heidi if we can put you in contact with her and you can't find the show notes anything like that please reach out and of course if you have any topic suggestions any questions send them through to talkingpools at gmail.com and Rudy will dish those out to the most applicable show host. Thank you again for joining us Heidi thank you as always Nick Thank you Lee thanks Heidi that was fantastic and um we really appreciate it all our listeners we hope to have you back with us again next week for another riveting episode. So have a great week everyone thanks guys