The Future of Fire Features - Natalie Hood with Matt Doll

In an industry where misinformation spreads faster than wildfire, this episode pulls no punches.

Natalie Hood sits down with Matt Doll, CEO of American Fire Products, to dismantle some of the most persistent—and dangerous—myths surrounding fire features in outdoor environments. From DIY disasters to misunderstood gas systems, this conversation is a wake-up call for builders, service pros, and homeowners alike.

Because here’s the truth:

👉 Fire features are not decorative add-ons.
 👉 They are engineered systems.
 👉 And when they’re done wrong… they fail hard.

🔥 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

🚫 The Myths That Won’t Die

•  Why you can’t just throw any glass into a fire pit (and what happens if you do) 
•  The dangerous assumption that “a burner is just a metal ring”
•  Why stainless steel is NOT all the same (201 vs. 304 matters more than you think) 
•  The truth about DIY fire pits and YouTube “experts”
•  Why cheap online fire pits can become expensive problems 

⚙️ The Technical Reality (That Most People Miss)

•  The difference between natural gas vs. propane systems
•  Why gas volume vs. pressure changes everything 
•  How media (lava rock, glass) actually affects flame performance 
•  The role of ventilation, drainage, and airflow in preventing catastrophic failure 
•  Why drop-in pans and proper ignition systems are non-negotiable in high-end builds 

💸 The Cost of Doing It Wrong

•  Real-world examples of $40,000 failures from poor system selection 
•  How undersized gas lines lead to weak flames and angry clients
•  Why builders often get blamed for products they didn’t even choose
•  The hidden risks of cheap materials and knockoff components

🧠 The Smart Approach (What Pros Should Be Doing)

•  Designing around engineered, off-the-shelf systems to reduce cost and risk 
•  Planning for gas, electrical, and system integration BEFORE construction
•  Using certified components and proper materials (not hardware store shortcuts) 
•  Building fire features that increase property value AND performance

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Any Yahoo with a phone can film a video or write a blog these days and say something without knowing anything about it and get a little bit of traction.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Back to the Talking Pools podcast, your go-to source for everything wet, wild, and wonderfully misunderstood in the pool world. I'm Natalie Hood, Director of Education and Events for The Grick Game. And today we're diving into a part of the industry most people think they understand until they don't. We're joined by Matt Dahl, CEO of American Fire Products, a company that's been reshaping how builders and service pros think about fire features, safety, and outdoor environments. You know, there are a lot of myths floating around about fireballs, automation, gas systems, and what actually makes these features safe, reliable, and profitable. And that is here to break them wide open. And, you know, if you've ever wondered why some fire features fail, why builders get blamed for problems they didn't cause, or what separates a backyard's liability from a backyard showpiece, this is the episode you don't want to miss because that brings the receipts, the real world experience, and the clarity this industry has needed for a long time. So before we get into it today, Matt, can you give our listeners a look inside your background and how you got into this industry and how American fire products came about?

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yeah, absolutely. Twenty one years ago, um I started the company after working in construction and learning everything there is to know about how glass works. And when I figured out how to polish glass and turn it into a usable product for fire pits, that kind of started the process of, well, then I had to figure out how to use fire pits. So 21 years ago, my very first ever attempt at building a fire pit was taking apart a turkey fryer and putting it in my driveway. And I made myself sick by not building it properly. So I learned some lessons really early on. And in the last 21 years, we have actually perfected the art of building fire pits. And so I'm ready to bust all the myths that are out there about fireglass, fire pits, burners, propane, natural gas, electronic ignition systems. So let's bust it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Let's do it. You know what time it is? Wednesday vibes on the fucking pools, podcast!

SPEAKER_00 3:53

And you know, before we jump into it, I kind of want to set the stage because the fire feature world, it's packed with, you know, again, a lot of myths that I feel like get repeated so often. And I think people are starting to really treat them like facts, if you will. And the problem is these myths, they don't just create confusion, they create callbacks, safety risks, you know, a whole lot of unnecessary blame on builders and service pros. So today, let's get just kind of straight into the biggest offenders, like you said. So the first one is fireglass is just decorative, and anyone and any glass make it it works. And honestly, this kind of really makes me cringe. Just saying this myth in general just kind of makes my skin crawl.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

So yeah, the amount of people who told me, oh, I'm just gonna break out the window in my truck and throw that in a fire pit. Go try that and and watch the toxic fumes come off of it, or watch it melt and cause a pocket of gas that explodes a burner. So that's what ends up happening. And so regular glass that's not formulated for high heat, it could melt, it'll crack, it'll pop, and it'll explode. So real fireglass is made from high temperature chemicals that are made to design, designed to withstand the high temperatures of a fireplace or a fire pit. Yeah, it actually does melt, but somewhere around 2,000 degrees. And if you're getting your fire pit to 2,000 degrees, you have a whole slew of other issues other than the fireglass melting. So one of the biggest myths is that you could just take a piece of glass out of your house or out of a car and throw it into a fire pit and fireplace and have it perform because it definitely will not.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Mm-hmm. And so, I mean, why do you think this myth kind of refuses to die? I mean, I because I've seen, I mean, you always see those really old, antique houses and they have those beautiful, you know, framed windows. And I'm sure a lot of people were like, oh, well, that'd be great to kind of throw in a feature. But I mean, why do you think people continue to to go on with this myth?

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Um, any Yahoo with a phone can film a video or write a blog these days and say something without knowing anything about it and get a little bit of traction. For a little bit of time, if you looked up Fireglass on Google, the Wikipedia page had information on it that was just downright dangerous because somebody went on there and put information that was just inaccurate. And I think sometimes people are just looking to save a buck and buy the cheapest thing they can get their hands on so they think they could use something that won't withstand fire. And uh a lot of people need to learn things the hard way these days.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

No, you're absolutely right. I mean, that is the scary thing. You know, I've talked about AI uh a couple different times on here, and you know, we talk about AI quite a bit at the grit game, but it is scary what people can do with AI these days, and there's so much misinformation out there. So again, I do appreciate you bringing some education to me and others listening. So definitely those listening don't just think because there's a pretty, there's pretty glass in your house or what have you, or something that looks pretty, you can you can make it into you know a fire pit. Definitely pay attention to that. So, you know, looking at burners, uh, another common myth is that all burners perform the same and that, you know, it's just a metal ring, kind of like how people say, oh, well, it's just a pump, and pumps all perform the same. Kind of walk us through what actually separate separates a quality burner from, let's say, a cheap one.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Yeah, so all of our burners are engineered to to perform. So you have our ring burners, you have H burners, you have pan burners, you have burners made out of brass. All of these burners can produce a different type of a flame depending on the installation where you're at. So the geometry of your fire pit usually will determine the burner that you're gonna use. And it's really about gas distribution and where you move the gas around. So a poorly designed burner could create hot spots and big flames in one area and small flames in another, and you get a really ununiformed fire. And when you're building a custom fire pit for someone, they expect it to work and look perfectly. And so that's one of the big issues that we see happen. Another thing that happens all the time is people aren't speculing it properly for natural gas or propane. If you install a burner with propane orifices built into it and try to use it on natural gas, you're not gonna get much flame out of it. So natural gas works off of volume, propane works off of pressure. So they are very different types of burners. That's another myth that people think you could just take a pipe, drill some holes, and put that out there, and you're gonna get the same kind of flame. And the amount of those that we replace in a year, well, honestly, I'm not gonna tell people to stop doing it because it it keeps us busy.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

So, wait, and so you're so you're saying get the propane.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

So if make sure that you know the type of gas that your burner needs to be designed for. So if the house or the project runs off of natural gas, you need a natural gas burner. If it runs off of propane, you need a propane burner. You can't just take one and interchange it and assume you're gonna get the same burn pattern and the same performance. So they are designed specifically for the gas type that you're using.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Right. Now, see, I did that purposely because I feel like people were gonna hear propane, they're gonna be like, oh, okay, I'll just go out and get propane. So again, make sure you're reading what you're getting, right? Make sure you're you're you're going back to the manufacturer. Okay. Okay, good. So another thing is, you know, some people believe that there's really true no difference between, you know, stainless steel, that stainless steel is stainless steel. And I feel like, you know, this constantly comes up because it it's it sounds like a single universal metal, but from what I understand, it's not. But I want to hear your take on this.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah, this is a fun one for me because there are different grades of stainless steel. And on the market today for burners, you see a lot of stainless steel and then you see a lot of brass. Stainless steel and brass perform identical. There's really no difference in the performance of the material, other than brass cost about three times as much as stainless steel. What happens is when people use a low grade of stainless steel. So we always recommend only going with 304 stainless steel. Everything we manufacture is 304 stainless steel, but you can manufacture something out of 201 stainless steel. Uh, to get a little technical, those are the grades. So um 304 is almost the absolute best you can get. The only thing that's gonna be above that is something designed to be submerged in water 100% of the time. And since our burners aren't designed for that, 304 stainless steel is the absolute top of the line that you're gonna get out of stainless for a burner. 201 stainless can look identical when it's brand new if you polish it out. And so, what a lot of people will do, and you'll see some of this stuff, you go shop on online and you look at that one marketplace that sells all the Chinese stuff, you'll find a bunch of stainless steel burners on there that are actually not 304 stainless steel, they're 201. And uh there's a reason we put a lifetime guarantee on our stuff because it really does last forever. But a 201 burner anywhere near the coast is gonna rot through in less than 24 months, and that's a big problem.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Wow. Yeah, no, so it sounds like you were talking about Amazon right there. Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but you're you're absolutely right. I feel like there's a lot of homeowners that are that are possibly purchasing things online and they're not able to see the difference until it's too late.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah. I think one of the things that uh is a little off topic, but kind of on topic, is uh it's absolutely okay to purchase something online as long as you're getting it from a reputable company or it's a known brand. The problem happens when it's a knockoff and it looks identical to something, and nine times out of ten, it's not. It's a it's a cheaper grade quality, and that's what we see happen all the time. We've tested burners before that got sent to us that failed, and it wasn't 304 stainless steel. And I don't know that they claimed it was, they just don't claim anything other than it's stainless. And, you know, it by definition, stainless stains less. But even a 304 stainless steel could potentially get a little bit of rust on it, but it's not going to harm their performance because it won't be enough to rot the entire burner. But on 201 stainless, it absolutely will rot through the burner. And how quickly does it rot through the burner, would you say? I've seen projects up and down the East Coast, and that's where this seems to be a problem. Got a guy I've been working with up in the Boston or area, and he's told me that he's seen a 201 burner rot out in less than a year. Wow. We've been supplying him with our 304 burners, and uh there doesn't seem to be a problem.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Wow. Okay, yeah. And I imagine that's probably gets rather expensive having to replace every year if you're not using the right.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah, especially if you're a contractor who just built a$300,000 backyard and the fire pit's not performing. Imagine how many times you have to go back out there and redo it. Um so hopefully in in that kind of a situation, maybe it was the homeowner cheaping out and buying something versus the contractor putting in something cheap.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Right, right. Just do it right the first time. Pay attention, ask questions, asked, asked, asked questions, never a silly question. Sometimes I like to have some silly questions, but here's a fun one. Electronic ignition systems fail outdoors. What do you think about this? And I think this kind of comes from the early days of electronic ignition, right? Where systems they weren't built for real outdoor use.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Yeah, if you go back 20 years, the only electronic ignition systems that existed were for fireplaces. And some of the first systems on the market took that technology and tried to move it into an outdoor fire pit. And yeah, that failed because fireplaces don't get wet. They don't have weather. And it has evolved a lot since then. But the system that we used has the word all-weather ignition system in the name. And so some systems to this day we see are designed to work really well during the um period of time it's under warranty and then stop working after a year or so. And you know, I'm not going to speak on those very much, but the systems that we use are bulletproof. And we've got systems that were installed 18, 15 years ago, and they're still working just fine today. So some systems aren't built like the modern day systems are, but even some of the older systems are still holding up just as fine. It's when you take a couple of different technologies from the old indoor fireplace world and you piece it together, and you know, you you think you know what you're doing and you build something yourself, and it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think, you know, definitely to with the do-it-yourselfers. I always I always try to be that person. I always try and do it yourself, do it myself, if you will, but always ends up being my husband doing it. Let's just be honest. It's always my husband, or I'll purchase something and like for for our kids. And I purchased, for example, like an outdoor playground for our kids two years ago, might I add. And it sat in our basement for so long just because we had to, you know, level the out, the out the backyard and do all this different stuff. And, you know, it it said that it was um weather guarded and all this. And we finally, finally set it up. I paid someone to put it together. And then, and um, now it's outside. But I'll tell you, it's been set up for a couple months now, and it's already starting to, I'm already starting to see cracks and issues with it. And I'm like, well, that's a bummer. And so my husband went back and he looked through it and he was like, baby, you didn't look through, you know, the directions and you had to make sure it was, you know, properly properly put under, you know, covering and this and that.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Yeah, it's it's made for outdoors, but you can't keep it outdoors.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, well, that was also kind of the thing. He was like, Why did you even buy this? And I was like, I was just looking for, you know, an outdoor playground for our kids. You know, you know, I kind of going back to that. Um now that was my user error, that was buyer's error. I totally I take full responsibility for that. But I feel like with, you know, the the the ignition, um, the systems and the fail of outdoors, I do feel that um there are a lot of misconceptions and that, you know, it does cause a lot of unnecessary fear or bad purchasing decisions, kind of where kind of where I was because people are like, oh, well, it's just not gonna work. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Yeah, and and that's there's a lot of installers out there who have installed products that they ended up having to go on a callback and they had to either in replace the entire system or do some kind of a repair job. And that's where a lot of people started to get some fear around installing these electronic ignition systems. And just like any other product in the market, there's top of the line and bottom of the line stuff, and the top of the line stuff is all bulletproof. There's a couple of manufacturers out there who are making systems that are really performing well, and I'm not supposed to be selling on this because it's more of an educational thing. So I'm just gonna kind of note that we put a five-year warranty on our product and a lifetime warranty on our burner systems, and we just don't have callbacks on our ignition systems. They're bulletproof. And so that's why we're so confident in that. But I can't speak for everything. And I know that if a contractor's ever installed a cheaper system and then had to go back and replace it, that that doesn't go so well. We're actually in the process right now of doing a project in Northern California where they installed 17 electronic ignition systems that they found from someone online. It's a big project. Wow. It's a big project. And less than a year in, all 17 of them are failing and they're swapping them out with our systems now.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Wow. So I kind of want to talk about that a little bit more. So with the 17 systems, what what had they cut? Tell us about that. So what were they using that when you came in? What did you walk up on? So 17, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Yeah, and so it was 17 fire pits at a commercial project. And oh wow, and all seven. It was. It's it's a$40,000 project that we're repairing now. And um, that has nothing to do with paying the labor to go in and redo everything. If it would have been done right the first time, wouldn't have had this problem. So the electronic ignition system that was installed just when they installed it, it was installed properly, but even installing the system that they got properly couldn't stand up to even a year's worth of usage. And I think there's some systems out there that might be designed more for residential, where it might be used a total of five or twenty hours a year at the most. But in commercial installations where it's being used every day for hours and hours, some of those other lower cost systems just don't perform. And I have a feeling that's what ended up happening here, that it just got used so much in the first year that the entire system just failed from the electronic components inside of it getting a little bit wet to the ignition systems burning out way too fast.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Now, here's my question. Do you think they they realized they bought a residential? Or do you think that they realized, or or do you think that they they they knew they were purchasing more of a residential geared setup, but they were just trying to save on money?

SPEAKER_03 18:52

I'm just now just getting those. Yeah, I uh I'm trying to be politically correct here. The system that was installed is not sold as either or it's just sold as this is an electronic ignition system. The reality of it is that it can't withstand commercial usage. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So buyers beware.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you get what you pay for when it comes to electronic ignition systems. I'll tell you that much.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, it definitely sounds like it. Definitely, and apparently what I also bat bought in the backyard for my kids. Awesome. Well, I do appreciate you going into that because that just kind of went, ooh, spicy. I love it. I always love a little spice, you know. Well, here's another one. And you know, I kind of feel like people tend to skip this one, but it's it's a good one. And it's that drop-in pans, they're optional, and you can just kind of set the burner in the pit.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Yeah, what a perfect tea up based off of our last conversation right there about the electronic ignition systems. So if you're building a fire pit where you want to use an electronic ignition system, you have to have either a flat pan or a drop-in pan to be able to mount the ignition box to it and then to be able to mount the igniter that goes next to the burner. So that's a non-negotiable when you're building a high-end fire pit, which is a huge portion of the projects that we do. Now, it's still to this day very, very common for a contractor to bid a job with a fire pit where all it is is a gas line stubbed up in the middle of the fire pit and they thread the fire pit ring on it. If you're doing that, honestly, you could get away with not using a pan if the if you and also if it's natural gas. Because if it's propane, you gotta make sure you're doing a whole bunch of other stuff. You gotta have the ventilation in it, and so you gotta follow a whole bunch of standards when it comes to that. But it is very, very common for a contractor to build a fire pit, fill it up to the bottom of the burner, like if you thread a a ring onto it with some kind of a gravel, it's gonna be underneath the fire, and then you top that off with just lava rock or with fireglass or whatever kind of media you're putting on there. Um, that's been a that's been a staple in the industry for 25 plus years. And that's kind of like the if you're looking at good, better, best installations, I would call that installation good enough for someone who bid a project with a fire pit but didn't bid it with any type of upgrades to it whatsoever.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Mm-hmm. And I mean, I would I just kind of picture a builder, you know, unknowingly creating like a perfect little gas trap, right? Because I feel like a lot of them, um, you know, going back to they don't believe drop hands are optional, you know, they're not decorative, right? But they're a safety component. And so that was that's one thing that that kind of comes to my mind. And, you know, they, as you were kind of say, they they control um, you know, like the airflow, drainage, and flame pattern. But I mean, it it can be rather dangerous if you're not careful.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Yeah. Um, something that we see all too often is somebody will build a fire pit that has this big cavity that's realistically 18 to 20 inches deep, and then they'll stack blocks in there and just put a flat pan on top of that, and that whole thing is is hollow with no vents. If you do that, you're building a ticking time bomb because if that fills up with any kind of gas and ignites, it's gonna blow up. So that's another reason why venting is so important when you're building a fire pit.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, I can only imagine. It's like holding the firecracker in your hand. Yeah, yeah, it pretty much is. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Well, let's talk about something that it's it's it's not decoration, but I always love how they look. And it's lava rock, stones, and balls are interchangeable. You know, I know they're not just decor, but that was even though they are gorgeous to look at. But you know, they they do directly they affect heat retention, flame pattern, and airflow. But let's talk about that, the the lava rocks and stones.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yeah, so lava rock is becoming popular again. It's you know, they're cool. Lava rock has literally been around for millions of years. It's crushed rock coming out of a lava mine that's anywhere from hundreds of thousands of years old to millions of years old. The lava rock mine where we source all of our lava rock is somewhere around three to four hundred thousand years old. We can't we can't figure out the exact date, but we've traced it back to at least that far. So yeah, yeah. So traditionally, lava rock has been used as a filler. Remember on the last conversation, I said a lot of people you will use something to fill up to the bottom of the burner and then top it off with the glass. So glass is more expensive than lava rock. So if you fill it up to the bottom of the burner with a low-cost filler being lava rock, you save quite a bit of money because there's no reason to fill a fire pit with glass under the burner. At that point, you're literally just wasting money. And so that's where so much of the volume of lava rock is being sold these days. But in the last 36 months, lava rock is becoming popular again as the topper, uh being decorative. So we're seeing lava rock, fireglass, fireballs. And we introduced some outdoor fire pit logs that, you know, I expected them to do well, but we're selling like five sets a day right now, which is better than I expected. And so even logs are making a comeback for fire pits as well. So here we are 21 years in, and we've kind of seen this whole cycle where we started out with just fireglass and that was our staple product, and now lava rock's popular again. We're selling a lot of logs. So, yes, it's interchangeable, but you need to be very specific what product you're using. So, like a myth is that you could just stack fireballs on top of a burner and use that. And the myth about that is that that'll ruin the burner, that'll ruin the fireballs, it'll ruin the fire pit. So, no matter what, you got to cover cover your burner with a couple of inches worth of media. And so, whether you're covering that with the lava rock or the glass, and then you could put some kind of a decorative topper on top of that. And so that's like a little nuance that a lot of people get wrong.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Okay, okay. That's actually I love I love that we're going over this because we have a fireplace in our house, and actually we've never turned it on. And I believe it's electric. Our last house wasn't, but this one's electric and it's got the wood on it. But I was I was talking to my husband and I was like, I'd really love to do like the lava rock because I thought that would be really cool because I was looking at the different designs, and he was like, And you're not gonna do it yourself, Natalie. He's like, You need to do their so good to know. I will come to you when I have my questions before we get there. So very good to know. Um as we're talking about do-it-yourselfers, don't get that, you know, definitely don't come to me. Um, no, I'm just kidding. But um, you know, with the another myth is do-it-yourself fire pits, they're foolproof and that YouTube is enough. And that's big because, you know, my husband, for instance, and myself, we definitely go, we go to YouTube, we we look up things, you know, when we buy something for the kids, a new bike or what have you, he goes to YouTube and he's looking up how do I build this damn bike? Or, you know, if I'm doing something, I go to YouTube or I'll go to ChatGBT. But, you know, kind of what are your takes on this?

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Yeah, I'm torn on it. We created a ton of content that we put on YouTube, and I know there's a bunch of good manufacturers out there that do the same thing, and we're putting good content on YouTube and on social media to teach people how to install all of the products that we manufacture. One of the things that I think is destroying YouTube is what's called the influencer economy. And yes, what happens now is if you go to YouTube for any product, I I don't even think it matters anymore, you'll find dozens of videos from quote unquote influencers that all they're doing is talking about a specific product and linking it in the bio or linking it below so that when you click on that, they make a commission for doing that. Well, the problem with that is is there are so many people out there giving bad advice and then linking to cheap crap products that um when you figure out how to game the YouTube logarithm, you could do that and you could rank well, and then you end up giving people bad advice and they don't know that and they don't care about that, and they have zero liability about it. And so, yes, YouTube is great for DIYers, but you really gotta make sure you're watching the right content from legitimate people and not just some influencers, because I don't think you're ever gonna get good advice from an influencer there.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

No, you were so right. I mean, actually, I used to scroll TikTok, and I really don't scroll TikTok anymore because I've gotten so frustrated by the amount of influencers that are just selling product. And of course I've I've fallen and I've I've bought a few things from my kids. And of course, it's nothing like they've advertised, which you know, nothing normally is, but I've kind of stopped doing that as well. And I've just gone straight to the source and actually I'll see things on, you know, YouTube or not, well, yeah, YouTube, or I'll see it like on Instagram, Facebook. And if I like the product, I'll look, I'll look it up and I actually go to the product's website. And then I if I still like it, I'll read more about it. And then I actually purchase it directly from the website versus from one of the social medias because I actually it's a lot cheaper and I feel more confident because I'm actually able to see the product at hand in the first like in the wild where I don't really know what I'm getting.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, guilty, guilty of doing the exact same thing, guilty of doing what I was just criticizing. Yeah, I mean scenes uh just funny story. Just um two weeks ago, I was scrolling TikTok and I watched this video of this guy using a little laser welder to like do repairs in his garage and it was linked for$99. And I'm thinking those things are thousands of dollars. I'm gonna buy me a$99 laser welder. Um, I got it, it shipped directly from China and I opened it up and it did not work. And I can't return it because the company's just gone. And so I I think like in that case, I think a lot of these people come out and they they flood the market with influencers, they sell a bunch of stuff and then they pack up and go away. And so like I I fell for the same thing. Uh, but I got a really cheap, cool laser welder that doesn't really weld. So yeah, there's that. That's a laser on it.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Maybe it could be like a laser.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Yeah, um, I I thought I'd be able to make it work, but uh I have a big camping trailer every year that uh we take camping and uh it seems like something always goes wrong with with RVs, and so I wanted to buy it and keep it in the RV in case my accident or something falls off while I'm driving down the road. So I might still have to call a professional at this point. But uh you could get a lot of really good information on YouTube. Yeah, you could also get a lot of really bad information on YouTube, and it's kind of hard to decipher what is what, but I think to the point you said is if you always look up the known brands, the people who have a reputation, the people that have been here for decades, you can't go wrong following that advice.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Yeah, we are well, and I think another thing to to point out is that you know, fire pits, they're not a weekend project. They're not a weekend project. And when I do when I do my own projects, I mean from home. So like quick example, this weekend, um, I decided I'm gonna update my girls, but that's that's something I can do quickly. I I pulled down like their stick-ons on their their walls and I had already pre-prepped it and I put new stick-ons, I moved like their furniture around. Easy peasy. A fire pit, that's not a weekend project. And I I can see by the look on your face that that you're agreeing with me. What what would you say, you know, give us a scope? What would that project look like?

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SPEAKER_03 30:47

You can build uh a fire pit in a day using uh some paver blocks and a propane installation kit and uh a fire pit ring, but it's gonna be something that is not a real big staple piece. It's it's not gonna, it's not, you're not gonna have any kind of electronic ignition system to it. It's most likely gonna be match light. But even doing that project where you're just buying a bunch of blocks and you're building it and you're putting that in there, you're still$500 plus dollars into that. And and it's gonna take you a whole day and you're gonna have to watch a whole bunch of videos and maybe I make it sound overly simple because um I just put in my sleep, I guess. But realistically, what you gotta figure out first is what's your gas type? What are your water columns? What kind of BTU do you need? Is this thing in a safe location? Is it under a roof? Is it too close to a house? Gonna have it in a windy location? Do you need a flame guard? Do you need to cover this thing? Uh, what kind of medium am I gonna put into this? And those are all things that people often will just rush into and not really think about. And you know, if you're just hooking it up to a barbecue-style propane tank and you're gonna burn it once in a while, then then yeah, you could you could probably build something like that pretty easy. You could also just go to Home Depot and buy a cheap Chinese-made fire pit pretty easy if that's what you want. But if you want a real fire pit that performs over and over again for years and years and years and actually adds value to your house in the area where you're using it, that's gonna be a well-thought out uh custom-built fire pit.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, yeah. I've been telling my husband for a while now, um, I would love to have a built-in outdoor fireplace. And I just like I envision it and he keeps telling me, he's like, I love it. I know you got connections, but this is not our forever home. And I'm like, all right, I'll just write it down in my wish list.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

So you know, let me let me comment on that because there's there's some data out there that that we try to use in some of our marketing that uh for every dollar you spend building a fire pit, not only will you make that back, you'll make a profit on it. So even if it's not your forever home, if you built an outdoor fireplace, when you go to sell your home, it will create enough value that you're gonna make money on the process. So it is one of the most desired features in backyards. And, you know, if something costs you$5,000 to build, you're gonna get an extra seven to ten thousand dollars out of the sale price.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

You know, you are absolutely right. What am I thinking? I'm gonna make sure my husband listens to this because I've been visioning this gorgeous, like stamped patio and a built-in fireplace. And, you know, I want, I want, you know, what is it, the the brick oven for pizzas and yes, that that I've been envisioning that for a while. And I mean, I I have this beautiful black stone that I cook. I actually I bought it for him. I think he's we've had it for about two years and he's cooked on it twice. So I'll just I'll just have I'll just sell that, you know, I'll just get like a really nice apron and be like, hey, so but you know, as we're talking about fire pits and we're talking about, you know, kind of online and vice versa. Another one is that all fire pits that are sold on online are equal and it's all the same stuff. Yeah, I know, I know. I just put my drink out here and you say that. Oh, you're gonna love that one. So let's talk about that, right? Because I feel like obviously it's causing chaos. So let's let's hear it.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Yeah, yeah. Um, so this is a big one. Um, you could buy a fire pit online for$49.99 or$4,990. Um, really good marketing could make them look very similar. But but they are very, very, very different fire pits. Low cost, low-end, what's called knockdown fire pit. It comes with a 30,000, 40,000 BTU burner. You're gonna get out of it what I call candle flames, where it's just like little, little tiny flames coming out of it that are that are you know two to three inches tall. You're gonna get almost no heat out of it whatsoever. And so that versus the high-end custom built fire pit or even a large fire pit made out of GFRC concrete or metal. And so this is where there I could probably talk about this one for an hour, but there's so many differences in like, say, even the gauge of metal that's being used to the thickness of the concrete in the fire pit, to the material that is in the blend of concrete. You know that it's I recently learned that to save on money, some manufacturers of cheap fire pits will actually mix chunks of wood into concrete to fill space because when it's poured into a mold, sometimes you're never gonna see it. So, you know, we we sell a lot of the concrete fire pits, and I've been learning more and more about what some people do on the low end to save cost. So, like those are some of the things that through marketing, you're you're never gonna know that.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

But it's like watering down alcohol.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Yeah, right, right. That's awful. Exactly. Mixing your vodka bottle with half water.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah. It's like, well, it's like when you, you know, maybe when you're younger and you you uh empty out some of your parents' vodka bottle and you put water in thinking, oh, they're never gonna notice. They notice.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Yeah, what one of the things that is the biggest issue is that um really thin metal, when it heats up, it'll start to bend and warp. And so, you know, we're using 18 gauge and 16 gauge metal, but some other fire pits are made out of a much, much thinner gauge. And once it starts to heat, it'll thermally heat up and cool and and it'll warp. And sometimes once it warps, it bends into a shape where the burner is bent and tweaked, and now you get um a burner sitting in a fire pit that's kind of cockeyed like this. And so what happens is the gas follows up, and so you get all your flame on one side, no flame on the other. And so I've seen a lot of horror stories about that. The gauge of the metal is very important. Then again, we talked about this a minute ago. It's the type of stainless that you're using. Never install anything that's not 304 stainless steel uh with when when you're doing that. And then there's different levels of certification. If you're building a fire pit or installing a fire pit somewhere that needs it to be certified and pass code, whether it's in a restaurant or a commercial location, or many different states around the country require that fire pits pass code. You gotta check what the certification is. You gotta be really careful about those. Yeah. And here's the problem with buying something online is when it fails, because it will, you're not gonna call Amazon, their customer service department, and have them walk you through how to fix it. No, yeah. When you buy a fire pit that's professionally built and installed, you probably have the guy's phone number saved so you could text them and say, hey, something's not working. And nine times out of ten, it's that the homeowner like forgot to change out the batteries in the push button igniter or turned off the gas at the meter and forgot to turn it back on and stuff like that. It's interesting to say that uh, yeah, it's it's a myth for sure that all fire pits sold online are equal because that couldn't be further from the truth.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Well, you know, it's scary too, is if um, you know, you're a builder or a a pool pro and let's say the owner goes out and purchases this, purchased something online, they've paid that$4,000 for it, but maybe the the company they purchased for has, you know, kind of like the kid, they've uh added some water in that alcohol bottle, right? They've cut corners. They're gonna be the ones that are gonna get blamed if something happens. So that's scary as well.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. We are really building out this whole program nationwide to train the installers that are installing our products, and we call it Become an American Fire Pro. We're kind of building like a university 101 program around it to where we actually certify contractors. And in a short amount of time, you'll be able to go to our website and find a certified American FirePro near you. And so it's kind of a new thing that we're working on. And so that's where if you're building a nice custom fire pit, you definitely want to work with someone who knows what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, I have one more of myth, and before we go into a deep dive, if you will. And that um, and it kind of speaks to what I was saying earlier about me kind of waiting because this isn't my forever home, but it's that custom fire features, they're expensive and complicated. What would you say to that?

SPEAKER_03 38:55

I have an idea of what you're gonna say, but let's Yeah, um, a custom built fire pit being expensive and complicated is kind of like a half myth, I I guess you could say. So there's a couple of different things that can make it really expensive, is if you don't pre-plan what you're gonna build. And if you're doing a true custom where there's no what I call off-the-shelf burner system that would work for that fire pit, we have to make that one-off. And we're making one pan, one burner, one igniter system, and we're doing all of that as a one-off. That does get very expensive versus building that fire pit to fit the standard burners that we already have in stock. And so that's where you can dramatically decrease the cost of building a custom fire pit. So then it turns into what is the structure gonna be built out? Is it gonna be block, stone, metal? You know, what what are you gonna build the structure out of? And that's where you could kind of decide where a lot of the cost structure is gonna come from as well. So custom usually means built to match the home. And and so it ties right into you wanting that outdoor fireplace. They don't just sell an outdoor fireplace off of the street that you'd be able to use a crane and drop in there and put in there. Right. Right. You're gonna want to build that thing custom to match the home. And doing that really does add a lot of value to the home, not just to the home, but something I haven't really touched on here is how much value fire features, whether it's an outdoor fireplace or a fire pit, adds to the family. That's kind of a big my family. I don't I don't know if you would know this, but uh, we like fire.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Yeah, so we sit around a fire pit quite a bit. Uh we play games and it creates a an awful lot of family time. All of my children are adults and we still get together to hang out by the fire pit more times than I could count. And so you have the cost of building it custom, the the cost of building it custom with parts that are off the shelf, and that's where you're gonna see a big difference in the cost structure.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Right. And I love what you said. You know, I I think a lot of people when they think custom, they think expensive. But you had said no, custom is really just to your surroundings and your house. So I love that. I think you're absolutely right. Because again, I know maybe when I was a lot younger, um, and depending on, I mean, we're looking at redoing our kitchen, and so everything's expensive right now. Tile is woo, really expensive. And the labor for that alone, I tried to do it and nope, just had to hire someone. Um, you know, but you're absolutely right. Because I think custom sounds intimidating, but I think, you know, definitely me, and I'm telling you, I'm gonna tell my husband, I we need that outdoor fireplace. I support that I I know I think I knew you would that we're really missing a lot of opportunity for growth and definitely weeknights, memories with our kids, and memories, you know, with family coming over, but also um a nice resell on our house.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Yeah. Imagine you have a table outside where you sit for dinner, off to the left. You know, maybe maybe it's the area where the sun comes up or sun comes down, so you get some really good background lighting. You have the fireplace wall over there, you have a nice big TV mounted up there. You could sit out there with your husband and watch doing that. Yep, you get some speakers installed. And what you did is you just added a thousand square feet to the usable space of your house, actually.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

That's true. Now, so here's the thing though. So we have two decks. We have a three-level, right? And so I'm actually in the basement. So we have a bottom deck and then we have an upper deck. So could I put my could I could I do the custom fireplace on the bottom?

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Yeah, and that's actually where you reference back to one of the first things I said when we were talking about that was deck. You're building it on top of wood or some type of a decking material. So there's all kinds of different versions of a custom fire pit that you're gonna want to use to make sure you're not getting heat anywhere near that decking. So that's one of those conversations that you really need to be working with a professional to figure out that. Then it comes into how high is that next deck from the first one for where the flames are gonna be, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:59

You don't want to burn the, you don't want to burn the well, and the thing is we have to redo our decks anyways, because there we knew when we bought the house the decks were awful. And then even what's bad is when your kid is like, mommy, you need to redo this step. I can see the nail. And I look over and I'm like, oh, you can't. I'm like, hey, babe, let's redo this. And he's like, Yeah. And so it was when I looked at my schedule today, I was like, oh, cool, I'm gonna sit with Matt, as I texted you last night. And I was, I was like, oh man. And I was like nudging my husband. I was like, hey, we need to redo our deck. Hey, and he was like, Oh my gosh, here we go again. And he was like, You just love spending money. And I'm like, and I'm really good at it. So yeah, that's true. We always make a good investment when we sell our houses. Okay, so let's shift gears. We've we've busted some myth. And so I kind of want to do a deep dive. You know, we've talked about builders and service pros, but I want to talk about what they need to know, right? Since, you know, we're on the topic. And so, you know, I know we've talked quite a bit, but what do you say? What do you talk about? How do you feel about doing a deep dive on what builders need to know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I like that. Let's let's dive in. Okay, so let's do it. So, what is the biggest installation mistake that you see in the field when it comes to fire products?

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Goes right back to our last conversation we just had. And the number one mistake, there's actually two top things that that I wish every person building a fire pit would start with is first start with knowing the size of the structure you're gonna build and build it to fit one of our standard burner systems that are off the shelf. I'll elaborate about that in a second. The next part of it is making sure that you run a large enough gas line for all of the features in your backyard that are going to use fire. Things that so many people underestimate is that you're gonna run a heater for the pool, a patio heater for your deck, a barbecue, and then a fire pit. And you gotta make sure you have a big enough gas line for that. So the Amount of people who underestimate how much gas you need is what ruins a lot of fire features. And we've seen installation after installation where they have this big, beautiful fire pit that they literally spent thousands and thousands of dollars building and they don't have anywhere near enough gas run to it, and they're getting dismal flames.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Oh, that would piss me off immediately.

SPEAKER_03 45:17

And you're in trouble when that happens. There, there's there's a handful of things that we could do. You know, we've seen people build, you know, eight-foot-round fire pits where they're planning on having this roaring flame. And the only way to make that work is to put a uh 12-inch burner in that thing. And, you know, because by the time the gas goes 300 feet down and feeds the pool heater and feeds your barbecue, you took all the gas. There's nothing left.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

And we I've seen that kind of thing happen over and over and over. And on that note, make sure if you're going to use an electronic ignition system that you're planning to put electrical near and at the fire pit. So those things all kind of go together. So to back up on that is like make sure that you're building the structure of the fire pit to use one of the off-the-shelf burners that we have, or else you're going to 10x your costs by having a one-off custom make these things. Make sure you're running electrical to the fire pit. Make sure you're running a big enough gas line. Those are like the main, main things. So then from there, a couple of other big, big mistakes we see in the field is not installing any kind of ventilation on the fire pit. Yeah. And so that's a big one as well. All of the burner systems and everything that we have, we have deep dive guides that talk about how and where and what to put for the ventilation. Then another interesting one that tends to happen after the fact is that if you don't cover the burner with media and you run the fire pit for too long, you'll start to warp the burner systems. And so even the biggest and the best burner systems that are ran fully exposed without any kind of media on it, you could start to cause some damage to it. That along with people not putting enough media over the burner. So sometimes we'll see an install where someone calls us and says, Hey, the videos of that burner show us getting three feet of flame, but we're only getting 10 inches. What's wrong here? 100% of the time when that happens, they show us their fire pit and they didn't cover the burner itself. And the magic in that is that when the gas comes up through the burner, whether it's fireglass or lava rock or whatever it is, that actually works to disperse the gas around and causes a bigger roaring flame. So when you're running the burner without media on it, you're going to get a smaller flame. As soon as you put a couple inches worth of media over the burner and spread it out, it takes the media and kind of funnels it to the center and you get a big roaring flame. So those are the couple of the things that I see happen time and time again. Then a couple of other little things are not adding drains to the fire pit. If it's a custom built fire pit that's going to be an area where it would potentially fill up with water. And then using cheap, what what do you call it, like black pipe fittings from the hardware store versus using stainless steel fittings or brass fittings? Don't build a$4,000 fire pit and use a black pipe coming up out of the ground. Yeah. You know, that that that's just not the way to make cheap it.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

So those are like the biggest things that we see happen when something goes wrong.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Okay, love it. So what about what what do you see, what builders misunderstand about gas supply and airflow?

SPEAKER_03 48:27

Yeah. So you really gotta make sure that you have enough gas for all of the appliances that are gonna be using it. And so that goes back to the conversation we had about pool heaters and and patio heaters and and all of that kind of stuff. We have a different tool, different tools on our website that'll kind of help you walk through that. We have certified technicians that you could call and we'll walk you through that. But uh so that so that's one part of it is making sure that you get that right. And then some interesting things about like propane versus natural gas. So propane is heavier than air, so it will sink easier than it will rise. So you got to give propane a lot less resistance to go up. For example, we tell people when you're building something out of propane, put larger pieces of glass in there, larger pieces of lava rock, half inch glass, one inch lava rock, the large chunks, give it the least amount of resistance to go up and burn off. And so those are a couple of the differences. Natural gas and propane flow differently as well. Propane is really based off of the amount of pressure that you have. So think of it this way: when it's natural gas, and you take picture a water hose. When you take a water hose and there's no spigot on the end, you get a lot of gas just flowing. But then when you put some kind of a nozzle on the end, you could shoot that water 20, 30 feet out. Kind of the same scenario with gas. And that's the like natural gas is based off of volume, and propane is really based off of sizing it down and making sure you have the right amount of pressure. And then making sure that if you're converting something, if you're doing a propane installation, you have to install an air mixer into it. And really what that does is it's an add-on accessory that takes the propane line and it mixes oxygen into it. When propane burns off, if oxygen is not not mixed into it, you'll get a lot of black smoke. Mixing some oxygen into the line eliminates a lot of that smoke and gives you a much cleaner burn. So those are a couple of deep lever level details that uh we try to work with on people that are building fire pits.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Awesome. Awesome. What about how would you talk to homeowners about fire feature safety?

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Yeah, a couple things that seem like common sense, but these days common sense isn't always that common. So don't leave your fire pit on when you're not there. You know, that's that's kind of that's kind of a big one. If you're in a area where you have a lot of wind, gotta make sure you're using some type of a wind guard, flame guard type of thing. A really, really important thing is that our electronic ignition systems, if the wind blows it out, which by the way, that rarely happens. I have a video of putting the thing in the back of my truck and driving through a car wash and it still didn't blow out. So that's really cool. Yeah, you need like a pretty massive windstorm to blow one of these things out, but it could happen. So our electronic ignition system will automatically reignite itself multiple times. If after doing that for a few seconds it doesn't reignite, it shuts the system off because it assumes that gas is flowing with no fire, which is creating a ticking time bomb. So that's another reason to never walk away from a fire. If you have a fire pit going that doesn't have an automatic ignition system set up to it and the flame blows out, you're just pouring natural gas into whatever it is. You know, imagine turning on the burner of your stove but not lighting it. You're just filling your house with gas. It's that exact same scenario, if you think about it. So that's kind of an important thing. Another one is to really make sure that you're testing for leaks. We recommend that you do it once a year. That's my legal stance that goes in the manual. In the real world, I don't see people test it as often as we would like you to, but that's another thing. If you haven't used a fire pit in quite some time, you turn it on real low without lighting it. You spray some soap and water on some of the fittings, make sure that nothing's leaking, and then from there you could light it and turn it on as long as everything's good to go. Um, you don't have to cover your fire pits, but we always recommend that you do. You could either get like a vinyl cover and cover the entire structure, or we make metal covers that cover just the burner system. And even though our products are made out of stainless steel and guaranteed to last forever, we always recommend that you cover the burner system because you just never know what weather and nature is gonna do to it. I've seen a uh fire pit in a backyard with black glass, and the guy sent us a picture, and it was all of it was white. And when you zoom in, yeah, bird poop.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Darn birds. Yeah, and I mean they hit my mailbox, but that would miss me off.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

So um that was an interesting one. So for reasons like that, we recommend uh keeping it covered. And then if you have an opportunity to install what we call an emergency on and off switch, which is either like a switch nearby or a button that you could push. We we always promote as much safety as possible around using a fire pit. Absolutely. Yeah, it's pretty funny. Another one that happens in commercial Yeah, I thought the same thing. It was I think they had a lot of seagulls or something, I don't know, but uh yeah. Better in the fire pit than on my head, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

Another one that we've seen a lot of is in commercial installations at a bar, is the fire pit ends up filling up with cigarette butts. And that's disgusting. It's gross. Oh it it what happens is the cigarettes start to burn and will like melt to the glass and it just makes it really ugly. So that's more of a commercial situation where people are sitting around smoking and and uh not as common these days because less and less people are smoking, but we've been doing this long enough that I've seen some really bad installations after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Oh, that's just trashy. Why would you do that? That's just oh, that that's messy. Yeah trust. Good coming up. AR trust. What about um what would you what about engineered systems and reducing callbacks?

SPEAKER_03 54:16

Yeah, I think a lot of what we talked about today is making sure that you're installing a system that's well thought out from the very beginning. And so when when you have a project that has a fire pit on it, realistically, what you're gonna want to do is before you ever even break ground, you're you're gonna want to think about what type of situation you're gonna need for the fire pit. And so our engineered systems using our AWICE electronic ignition system with our drop-in pans, with a cover and basically getting the entire system to where it's the ignition system, the pan, the cover, the flame guard, and um something that we're gonna introduce here very shortly that maybe by the time this goes live, we're gonna have for sale. Is we now offer the entire gas line all the way back to the meter. And so we're gonna have yeah, so we're gonna have that available in different sizes depending on how much you need. So you'll be able to get with our team and and our sales reps and and say, our fire pit's 200 feet away, we're running a heater, we're running this. They're gonna be able to tell you basically quote unquote engineer the entire project for you and tell you everything that you're gonna need, walk you through how to install it, and hopefully at that point, you can just move on and and focus on building the pool or the backyard or whatever it is that you're doing. Right. And then when it's time to start doing the fire pit stuff, you pretty much have a roadmap of exactly what to do. And and so doing it that way pretty much guarantees that you're not going back for callbacks and you're not going back and fixing stuff after the fact. I think we all know that once you get that final check from a customer, you want to move on and never go back because every time you go back is just costing you profit. And we never want to see that. And and so starting with the right engineered system from the beginning eliminates all of that.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Our last one, and I'm I I'm looking forward to this one, is what what should builders know that the the future of fire features and outdoor living?

SPEAKER_03 56:09

Yeah, everybody loves AI and loves technology, and so there's a couple things that I'm a little torn on with this. So um, a couple years ago I bought a Rivian electric vehicle. Everything inside of it was touch screen, so much so I hated it and I got rid of it. I still wanted my knobs, I wanted my dials, I wanted my butt.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

I like moving, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

Right, right? Like driving a stick. So I I think about that and then apply that to like what we're working on for the future of stuff. We we want systems and we have systems that you could hook up to your whole home automation, you could use your phone to turn it on and off, but that they also have safety redundancies where you have an automatic uh stop switch on the wall, a couple different things like that. And so, um, regards to electronic systems, that's kind of what the staple is, is that nowadays you could hook it up to any pool controller system, you could use it on your phone, you could use different home automation remotes, and and that's pretty cool. Where I'm starting to see some more cool technology is incorporating like LED lights into the fire pit build that you know, the like uh I know you guys represent POW lighting. And so, like uh imagine some type of a fire pit system that the lighting worked together with the fire and sent set the mood around the fire pit, but then also worked together with the music and could make the flames dance to music and and different things like that. So those are a couple of cool things like they do on holidays.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Yeah, yeah, like the houses on holidays that they always have like the the lights are dancing to different theme songs. Yep, yeah. I have those lights on my house.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Do you really like we we had them installed and they're like permanent lighting in all of the eaves, and now what we do is you know, we go red, white, and blue for the fourth of July, we go pink for for uh Valentine's Day. Um, I'm a huge Chargers fan, so we go like blue and yellow for the charger season, you know, different stuff like that. It's pretty fun. But stuff like that, but then yeah, you know, tied in to to different automation stuff around your house. And then fire and water is becoming very popular. There, there's a lot of people that want to see fire coming out of water. I kind of knew the first people that ever did that, the guy that created it, I know him well, he told me that he was watching news reports. This is crazy, you're gonna you're gonna laugh. News reports of the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. And there was an endless amount of fires coming out of the water from homes that got washed away, but their gas lines were wide open and it ignited and it gave them the the idea to create a really unique system that would, in a sense, bubble gas up and then create a fire pit on top of it. And so there's some cool, some really cool creative things in the works in regards to that. Uh the world of fire pits is is really evolving. So really high-end GFRC concrete and heavy-duty metal fire pits are just becoming more and more popular, and and that's something that that we're really excited about because that's a big part of what we do. And then, you know, fire pits are already one of the most asked for things on almost every single project. And right now, as we're recording this, buying and selling homes is kind of at record lows. Yeah, I think we all know that. And adding a fire pit to the house is just one more thing that's going to help sell it above other people who are selling very similar sized homes in in the same neighborhood. So that's kind of some things of where I see the future of, you know, I know the question was outdoor fire features in outdoor living, but I I kind of focus on some of the stuff that we're working on.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

No, I I think you definitely answered it. And again, it goes back to the conversation of, you know, with my husband, we we, you know, he's military. We move every three years. He has one more move in him until he hits his um 20-year mark. We don't know if he's gonna stay in or not. But typically we we always buy a house and we tend to flip them and then we always make fairly good profit. But you're absolutely right. Hey, I think the house that we're in right now, it was on the market for 200 plus days. Now they had a problem. It was fixed before we moved in. Um, but even our house in Georgia, it was a gorgeous house. I miss my house. I missed the house, but it took six months to sell. And we had to put over well over a hundred thousand into it. And this house here, I've been looking at it going, what can we do to set this house apart from the other houses? One thing we definitely have to do is we do have to make some changes to our kitchen. Um, it's just very dark and it's there's there's how the house is framed and positioned. There's there's really good angles where there's some really nice natural light. But then like the kitchen, there's not a whole lot of natural light. And so I'm like, ooh, and there's really dark colors. So we got to lighten that up. But I think you're absolutely right. I mean, we have to redo our deck regardless. We knew buying the house, but I think by adding that that fire feature outside, I'm like, hmm. So don't be surprised if I start texting you photos and I'm like, so this is what I'm working with. I need your advice.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

Yeah, we we're always looking to collaborate uh with on some projects like that. So yeah, yeah, you know where to find.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

Oh cool. Yeah. I'll just make sure to to to reach out to you at a time since you were three hours different.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

Yes, we worked through those kinks this morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Yes, we did. Well, Matt, I can't thank you enough. And to those listening, as always, thank you for tuning in. And you know, folks, here's the bottom line. You know, fire features, they're not accessories, they're engineered systems that demand the same respect we give pumps, heaters, and automation. And when we stop treating them like decor and start treating them like safety critical equipment that they are, everything changes. There's fewer callbacks, safer installs, and you know, better margins. And homeowners who trust you because you actually understand what you're putting in their backyard. So, Matt, I can't thank you enough for bringing clarity to a part of the industry that's been operating, I think, in the dark for way too long. And this is the kind of information that elevates, I think, the entire trade. And so to everyone listening, if this episode challenged what you thought you knew, good, share it with another builder, another service pro, or anyone who's ever been burned, literally or figuratively, by bad fire feature information. The more we raise the standard together, the better this industry becomes. And again, Matt, I can't thank you enough for being here with us. It's been an absolute pleasure. I know I've learned something. I'm sure our listeners have. And to all those listening, stay sharp, stay focused, and keep on learning. Until next time, guys. Thank you.