The Chlorine Panic Is Missing the Point - Mondays

In this continuation of their conversation, Lee, Shane, and Nick are joined again by industry expert Spiros from Next Gen Experts to break down a topic that’s generating serious noise across the pool industry right now: proposed workplace exposure changes and what they actually mean.

This isn’t a surface-level chlorine conversation. It’s a deep dive into how regulations, standards, and real-world operations collide—and where the industry needs to be paying attention versus where it might be overreacting.

🧠 Key Topics Discussed

🔹 Toolbox Talks You’re Already Doing (But Not Documenting)
Many pool businesses are already holding informal safety and operations meetings—but without documentation, they don’t count. Spiros explains how simple adjustments can turn everyday conversations into compliant, valuable safety practices without adding complexity. 

🔹 Safe Work Australia Proposal — What’s Really Happening
There’s been a lot of chatter about new workplace exposure limits—especially around chlorine. But here’s the reality:

•  This is not just about chlorine
•  It includes 100+ chemicals (bromine, acids, hydrogen peroxide, etc.) 
•  It spans gases, vapors, dusts, and airborne residues
•  It affects multiple industries—not just pools

Spiros emphasizes that the proposal is broad, complex, and still lacking the evidence needed to justify sweeping changes.

🔹 Air Quality, Ventilation, and the Limits of Control
The conversation shifts into something most techs never think about:

👉 You can control what you add to the water
 👉 You can’t fully control what ends up in the air

From HVAC systems in aquatic centers to chemical off-gassing, there’s an entire layer of engineering happening behind the scenes—especially indoors—that most service pros never see. 

🔹 The Reality Check: Regulation vs Practicality
If these proposals were implemented as-is, the implications could be massive:

•  Retail pool stores may require advanced ventilation systems 
•  Many locations (especially leased or strata properties) may not be able to comply 
•  Costs could outweigh benefits—with no guaranteed improvement in outcomes

Bottom line: There’s still a long road ahead before anything becomes enforceable.

🔹 Chlorine Smell, Chloramines, and Misconceptions
That “pool smell” everyone talks about?

It’s not just chlorine—it’s often chloramines and other byproducts. The discussion highlights:

•  Why some facilities don’t smell like chlorine 
•  What corrosion inside buildings can reveal about air quality 
•  How environmental factors (like salt air) complicate everything 

🔹 Australian Standard 3633 — A Major Update Coming
One of the biggest takeaways:

👉 The 40-year-old Australian pool water standard is being completely overhauled

What’s coming:

•  A unified standard for residential and public pools
•  A performance-based approach (focus on results, not rigid methods) 
•  More scientific and technical depth
•  A document designed to become the industry benchmark

Public review is expected soon—and industry p

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Welcome to Monday and Monday's Down Under. Now we pick up with our hosts Lee, Shane, and Nick, in part two of their talk with Spiros de Sarkis of Next Gen Experts and his words of wisdom. We join this conversation in progress.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Many businesses are doing some style of this anyway, but because they're not recording it, they don't know they can't immediately point to it. So there are plenty of businesses out there that have a catch up, let's assume every Wednesday at nine o'clock, but it's not rec and they talk about things such as this, such as, you know, uh should we do we are there any hazards on this site? Is every you know, all the toolbox talk things that one should. But because no one's and they talk about accounts, they talk about complaints, but because no one is articulating this meeting, if you like, as a semi-quasi toolbox talk, it gets lost. And so all of a sudden we don't have a toolbox talk, when in fact you do. And so this comes back to the fact that you don't want to ever engineer an outcome because you know businesses from a retail sense or a service tech point of view are quite small and their time is precious. So everything that you do for this business has to be considerate of their time, how big their operation is, and to make their life simpler, not more complex. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

And I suppose the talk of safe work brings us on to the other topic which we're going to address today, and that is Sparza brought out in a newsletter last week. Uh so everybody should be re reading the Sparza newsletter because it is a great source of information, especially about what's current, um, and especially from a legislation and uh regulation perspective. And they're talking about um chlorine gas, aren't they?

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Or chlorine Firstly, uh I I don't I'm not speaking on behalf of Sparza. I've read the submission or the proposal by Safe Work Australia, and I've also read the submission by Sparza when they published it last week, and I support it. But this is not an issue confined to um chlorine at all. I mean, we're dealing with gases, vapors, dusts, mists across a range of substances in the workplace, because it's not just swimming pools. Now we're talking about bromone-based products, we're talking about hydrochloric acids, hydrogen peroxide, calcium, balancing agents, byproducts, residues. I mean, this is a a sweeping set of reforms that they're looking at doing. Chlorine is being highlighted as one of those issues, but you know, there are many, many more, and lots, lots more. Uh, we don't have enough time to go through each and every one of them during this podcast, but it's not a one chemical issue. It it impacts several chemicals that we use in our industry. And it doesn't just focus on industries, they just talk about these are the hundred plus chemicals that we're looking at, and all the chemicals that I've mentioned fall into that sort of sector. And I think what's important is that the idea is that there are two aspects here: the use of chemicals in the workplace, which are governed through relevant standards, and we'll go through that in a moment. And there's also the capturing of the residues of these products. So things, you know, pool imagine a pool shop, right? You're exposed to chemicals over a period of time, and that's why it's important to have ventilation and all the things that we know and trust, mechanical ventilation and things of that nature. Draining, storage, excuse me. But airborne products. We as an industry can't control airborne products. There are plenty of other standards and regulations that determine how these things are captured. There are things such as mechanical engineers, there are systems in place, HVAC systems, heating, air conditioning, and other systems that control and monitor air quality in aquatic centers, in industrial factories, in hydrotherapy pools. And as an example, these airborne contaminants, when we do chemicals in a swimming pool, we don't give a second thought to the impact to the fumes that are generated by various chemicals. By and large, many of these things di dissipate naturally through most swimming pools being outdoor. But you do get aquatic centres, and what you don't see is the significant investment time and energy spent on HVAC systems or on um you know containment systems to ensure that clean filtered air discharges the fumes out and brings clean air in. And there are appropriate engineers and processes for that. A lot of people have said that um pool chemicals, um, you know, you need to take care of that and you need to look at AS3633, which is the pool water quality chemical that's currently being reviewed.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

The 1986 one.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

It's currently being reviewed and uh and 40 years old.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

Take a novel. I'm happy to talk.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

I'm happy to talk about it because you know, it is um what is going on at the moment is exciting and significant. But you know, we've got other things going on at the moment, such as there are Australian standards for for mechanical ventilation in buildings. This is where this stuff sits. Uh, fire and smoke control. We've got things such as micro bio uh microbial controlling buildings and air conditioning systems. And of course, there are national construction codes, both here in New Zealand, that talk about pool chambers and energy efficiency provisions. So um I think this is a really ambitious thing by Safe Work Australia. I don't think they've properly considered um the implications and unintended consequences of what they're doing. Um and I think that um and they also recognize that even with these changes, if they proceed, provide no guarantee that the outcome would be any better. And so this is an important part to play. So, you know, I've heard a lot of noise on social media and LinkedIn about, you know, we've got to stop this and we've got to stop that, and we've got to, you know, this is serious and chlorine and, you know, all that sort of stuff. But I think we need to be sensible about it, and just this is not going to change the nature of what we do in its current form. SafeWork Australia have a lot of background work to do, and anyone who's read the proposal will form the view that it's uh there needs to be a lot more evidence-based data in order for them to proceed down this path. And if they can't guarantee the outcome, and at what cost, then I'm not certain any industry is going to support it in the way that they are. And the problem with that is this. Think about most pool shops. Most of them don't own their own premises. Of course there are those, but then the pool shop now um has a draconian requirement now that it needs um control systems within it uh to extract that may or may not, as per the proposal, impact people. And of course, some of those properties are in stratas, and of course, some of those properties don't have false ceilings. And so the implications here are, from a practical point of view, quite problematic. And if I was betting on this, I would say that I wouldn't be, in the in the first instance, losing a lot of sleep over this because there is an awful lot of work to do. I don't think they've made their case appropriately, and this does not affect swimming pools. And yes, chlorine is raised, but so are dozens of other chemicals, including bromine and various other hydrogen peroxide and things of that nature. So this is a broad-based paper, and it's not an attack, as some would have it, just on chlorine.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Because it's not just about the storage and handling of chlorine, it's also about, like you're saying, aquatic facilities and that sort of thing. It's the the chloromines, the trihalomethanes that we're getting off the water that uh concerning and obviously they're addressing those. So if any of our listeners actually want to have a look at that news release from Sparza, it is on the Sparza website under the industry news section. Um, I will get Rudy to put a link to it underneath today's show notes. But it's called Safe Work Australia proposed changes to workplace exposure limits for chlorine. But as Vera said, not just the chlorine that they're actually addressing here. I can say as a retailer, obviously I always used to say, of course, my pool shop is going to smell like chlorine, just like a fish shop smells like fish and a bakery smells like bread. It's just part of the parcel. But there's things that you can do to reduce that. We actually had a air um uh filter purifier type thing that actually would remove up to it was a chemical one, would remove up to formaldehyde. And formaldehyde is actually quite um hard apparently to capture. So that one was a really good buy for us and made a big difference to the odor in our store. But then I've seen other pool shops that actually keep their, especially up in Queensland, they keep their chlorine in almost enclosed cabinets that is then ventilated to to outside. So they try and keep the the odour within within that cabinet and and pull that out. Things you can do there.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

Absolutely. And and I and and I and I think we should keep doing them, but I think that um I think this is an important discussion. But again, there are we focus on chlorine, but this is there is a broad base approach, and um I think the the the the the way in which it's presented creates more problems and answers, provides more questions and then answers, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

I've actually been into an aquatic facility where I was presenting training actually, and I went into the bar I actually went into the facility and I went, oh wow, like not a lot of chloramine smell. I was actually quite impressed when I first walked in. Maybe it's years of smelling chlorine, I'm not so susceptible to it anymore. But I noticed that there wasn't the smell wasn't there. And then later on in the day, I went into the indoor bathrooms and the corrosion, the green corrosion on the on the tapware and on the hand fans um or the hand dryers was really quite incredible.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

And that would be salty, you know, they that could have taken five years, a decade.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Exactly right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Um, you know, um think about your apartment on the water, if you have one or lucky enough to live there, most of things corrode fairly quickly on there as well. And you know, you can smell that salt. And so how do you deal with things that sometimes you can't control? And they they make a point in here simply saying in that submit in that proposal that we can't guarantee that if we introduce all the possible things that we want, that it's gonna um address all the issues. And so there lies half the problem that it might be an awareness thing that comes out of this rather than, you know, aggressive regulation regarding how these things are managed in construction and building.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

I think the thing is with most of us in the industry, we want to do the right thing. We just need to know what the right thing is to do. And unfortunately, there's lots of grey areas. Um we just want somebody to go, hey, this is what you're gonna do, go off and and and do it. Um so tell us what's going on with 3633 after 40 years.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

Well, I will tell you and what what is in the public domain, and I can't tell you anything further than that, but currently 3633 is a rented is a residential um pool water quality standard. And the new standard when it's published later this year will be a coordinated residential and public pool um standard.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Also, we will have a national Australian national standard for commercial pool.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Let's not get overly excited. We will have we will have a national Australian standard that will deal with good pool water quality in both residential and public settings, and it'll be signalling to the regulators in government that this will be the preeminent document because when you look at around the country at the moment, 633, in fact the government and regulators in most regions do not reference Australian standards when it comes to pool water quality. They reference things such as WHO and other British related standards or other standards in other countries, but they don't reference an Australian standard when it comes to pool water quality. And so we want to be able to change that. And I know that's the I guess the preeminent residential standard for pool water quality, but a lot's changed over the over the decades. And so the new standard will have things such as it'll allow for innovation, it'll allow for performance-based, which is really quite important, and um it's going to be much more scientifically and technically written to ensure that it crosses over both residential and public and very different requirements. So there will be an opportunity for the industry, the public, the industry to review it once it's goes out for public comment. And I encourage everyone to take care and take time because this isn't a stand that I think we should all stand behind and wave as the um the beacon of our industry when it comes to good water quality. Because we're not taking any positions on regulators and their views. What we're saying is this is what we think based on the best intel in the world right now. If you achieve this, it doesn't matter how you get there, you just need to get there. So it's performance-based. You still need to achieve certain things, but how you get there is a matter for you to verify how you got there. And so we're trying to the objective is to ensure that it gives people the opportunity to participate in cool water quality chemicals and various other treatments, both primary and supplementary, in different settings. The document is going to be set out in a way that is also educational, quite bulky in its um, I guess its um size compared to what we have at the moment. And so everyone will get the chance to review it and provide comment. And I certainly know you will, Lee, and I'm hopeful that many others will as well, because there's a thing called fatigue when you sit on Australian standards that sometimes you you you may miss something, or it's not written in a way that is intended, and it's important for people like you and people in our industry more broadly to look at it and simply say, Well, I think I think I know what they're trying to do, but it doesn't come across that way. Or that makes no sense. Who the hell thought of that? Here is a suggestion, right? And all of those things are very, very they're all taken seriously, and so anyone who puts in a comment will get a reply from standards to confirm that their comment has been put forward and whether it's been adopted with amendments or not adopted at all.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Yeah. Well, that's really good to know that our input's getting heard because I I know that um I think it was the New South Wales one that you and I had conversations about years ago when they were redoing it and there was at school or final understanding. Yeah. And and we we raised it with them and then they ignored what we said. You and I both raised it, they ignored what we said, and then when they printed it, we went back to them and said, This is still wrong, and they went, Well, you should have told us earlier, and we both went, We did. So yeah. But no, I'm very keen to to uh read that. It's been going for quite a few years because I was initially involved at the start of the writing.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

The project proposal was put forward by Sparza pre-COVID, and so COVID put everything in a spin. So approval for it was preliminary provided, but the formal approval for the project did not occur until uh early last year. And so it's likely that there will be a public document to be reviewed by yourself and others, somewhere in the vicinity, I think June-ish, July, sometimes in that space. And I'm I I suspect Sparza will write to members and industry more broadly to simply say this is happening. Jump on board and have your say.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Yeah. Really important listeners out there that when we get the opportunity to read this, jump on, read, and give your feedback, show the strength of the industry, show your interest. No point complaining about it after it's happened. You need to have a look at it and and have your input now. So, boys, you both be reading this.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

Definitely bedtime reading.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Up Shane, I know it's not your your country, but it it's an Australian standard. We've got lots of ANAFNZ standards. Yeah. So you never know, might find its way across across the ditch.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

But I was actually speaking to somebody a while ago and they did say they they were actually praising the New Zealand standards. I don't know how good it is compared to a lot of the other other standards. I know I've never read any of the other standards. What's your take on that, Sparos?

SPEAKER_04 17:54

I think that there are a lot of standards with it. I think that there are a lot of standards within New Zealand that are missing, but I think that New Zealand have taken a measured approach considering you're ten times, almost ten times, or is that eight times, probably eight times smaller as a country than ours. And you've taken a measured approach to something. So, you know, you haven't gone in there and changed the world and breaking things. You've taken a measured approach based on what others have done and decided not to do it or to do it. So, you know, and I think that that's important. And yes, you've I think it's 5286 that you've got a relevant pool water standard equivalent, if you like. And there's some good stuff in it. I think I've got that right, haven't I? 826? And I think there's some good stuff in there, right? There is some good stuff in there. Um there's some stuff that needs updating, but by and large, it's it's an older standard. But whoever put that together and I can't remember who the nominating organizations are, they've done a good job for the time. But that that time will come where that'll need to be reviewed. There'll be a lot of, you know, what's the word, inference or reference to potentially the Australian one. And I I I want to highlight that Australia is not in the habit of ramming standards down New Zealand's throat. Where New Zealand has been involved, there has been a select group of New Zealand industry stakeholders that have participated to ensure that it is reflective upon the New Zealand landscape, the practices, and things of that nature. So when I talk about the fact that it may find itself over there, it's still got to go through the New Zealand standards process, which is pretty robust in its own sense.

unknown 19:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I think we were saying it earlier, Australia is almost like the the guinea pig for a few years, test things out, and then eventually it will come over to New Zealand.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Well, that's what New Zealanders would say. I'm not sure whether Australians would agree with you, but but New Zealand do take a pragmatic approach as a sm as a smaller country, if you like.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Because I noticed that um reading, as I do, every state health guidelines for for each state around Australia. And definitely Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria very much have seemed to have come into line with each other. A few small differences, but fundamentally the same. But some great informational, educational information in those documents where it actually teaches people about different chemistry levels, why they're important, and all the microbiological illnesses that you can get from water and then what they can result in. So things like that. Sorry, I geek out. I find those things really interesting. But yeah, I'm we'd like that. But I always implore every student, read your state health guidelines. Whether you're dealing with commercial pools or not, a great resource of information and something you should be all over.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

There's always, I mean, you can print a hard copy and just leave it in the van and leave it in the retail shop and always refer back to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah. The Australian standards, obviously, there is a a cost involved with those, but uh my understanding is Sparza do have some sort of discount package that is um you should cluster on come into that, Sarah?

SPEAKER_04 21:22

So Sparza have always endeavoured to work with standards to provide certain promotional access to standards. It can be expensive. I believe that Kristen, the new CEO, has recently updated that offer. And I think it's either available on their website under Members' Services or it's coming. And what it means is people can access Australia-New Zealand standards on their devices for a fraction of the cost than they otherwise would. And when you consider that most of our industry is either in a car, on a site, or doing something in the industry that doesn't include an office. Referencing these types of things on a device makes sense. And so anyone who wants to access these standards, you would be well placed to look at the Sparza website to determine what promotions they've arranged because certainly from a value point of view, it's significant. Like really significant.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yeah. So, um, and of course, the state health guidelines are completely free on available from your state health department.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Downloadable. You all you need to do is Google New South Wales Health Swimming Pool Guidelines. It'll come up easy, easy to find. So I implore all the listeners to make sure you have your copy. Um, I have a very well thumbed one with lots of highlights and page markings and all the important stuff. But yeah, great resource. And then make sure that you are familiar with the uh standards that are applicable to you. So, of course, 1926.1, point two, and point three. Uh 33 storage and handling of dangerous goods and the new version of 3633 when it comes through. Is there any others that pool service technicians and and retail stores that can be should be aware of?

SPEAKER_04 23:07

I think they're the main No, I think they're the staple. And like I said, that we don't want to over-engineer what people need to know. But I think if they consider those standards that you've referenced, then they as a library, then I think that's a much better situation to rely upon rather than that's what I was told by somebody or that's what I was shown. And so we're getting away from that. And you know, having three to four standards is sufficient. And if the opportunity arises or the need arises, then you go and access more. But you know, you talked about before about electrical. I mean, our industry doesn't really understand the service industry. Many do, but equipotential bonding is a significant issue even for service technicians, even after a swimming pool has been built. The dump pump double insulated. Is it within, you know, are you relocating it with a new pad? Where is that pad? Is it earthed? All these things matter. So it's important to stay on top of these things. And and my view is that um where you don't know, ask questions. Somebody that you know in your community will will um find the answer for you. And Sparza's a great place to start. But certainly um if Sparza receive multiple calls from people on similar issues, they start to see a pattern grow. And I suspect that um, as did I, they will keep a log and then put into place an educational document at some point to deal with that.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Yeah, absolutely. So remember, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Warned is forearms, so be proactive, not reactive. And of course, if you um feel that it's something you need professional help with, of course, you can reach out to Spiros at NextgenExperts.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

So, Spiros, do you want to give your website a So NextGenexperts.com.au, you can jump on there and have a look. If you just want to have a chat or you're not sure, then reach out to me. Or you've been told something else and you just want to check that you're heading down the right path. I'm not there to steal anyone's thunder, I'm there to make sure that you get the right outcome and you get the right outcome by asking questions.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Absolutely. And remember, there's no shame in asking for help.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Do you cater for New Zealand? Yes. Yes, I've got several clients. I've got several clients in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Who uh are forward thinking and thinking about their businesses, um, and so I'm working with them, and because I've worked in the New Zealand space, I've got a good understanding of what's required there. So I'm very grateful that you know, I guess my interaction with New Zealanders over a period of time has either paid off or led me to me since my departure.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Fantastic. Any final questions for Spiros before we let him go, guys? You've been very generous with your time and we really appreciate it. Thank you. So, listeners, we hope you've got a lot out of today. I'm sure you have. Um probably going to be two episodes, I would imagine. Rudy will split it probably over two weeks, I'll um given our length of our chat. But we really appreciate your time, Stuas, and I'm sure our listeners got heaps out of it. So remember, listeners, if you have any questions, please drop us a line at talkingpools at gmail.com and Rudy will send them out to the most applicable host. In the meantime, we hope that we will have you with us again next week for another rivet riveting episode of Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pools podcast. And remember, if you want to lift the professionalism of our industry, what are you doing to do it? So, in your business. Think about that. Until next week. Thanks, guys. I'll see you. Bye bye.