“How Do I Cover My Ass?” Protecting Your Pool Business When a Pool is Structurally Failing

In this week’s episode of Insurance Interludes, host Steve Sherwood teams up once again with Pat Grignon, Vice President of the California Pool Association (CPA), to tackle a real-world scenario hitting every service tech’s nightmare list:

A failing shell. A leaking pool. Conflicting opinions. And YOU stuck in the middle.

Steve brings the audience behind the scenes of his own route — a client with a structural crack that keeps reopening, “experts” claiming they can fix it, and the big question:

“How do I protect myself while still trying to do good business?”

Pat breaks down exactly how pool pros can keep themselves legally covered, insured, and sane when structural failures, hillside homes, cracked shells, and desperate customers collide.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

📝 Why Paper Trails Are Your Lifeline

Pat explains why ANY phone call about structural damage needs to be followed by a “per our conversation…” email or text. Document everything — not because you're dramatic, but because you need receipts when things go sideways.

⚠️ When to Walk Away (and When You Can Stay)

Steve and Pat compare two real pools from Steve’s route:
 • A cliffside pool in Silver Lake that could cause a full-blown mudslide — instant “NOPE.”
 • A flat-ground residential pool losing water but posing low catastrophic risk — maybe salvageable if documented correctly.

🛠️ Are Those ‘Staple Repairs’ Really Reliable?

They discuss companies that claim they can staple, bond, fiberglass, or otherwise resurrect a cracked shell — and whether those repairs last or leave YOU holding the liability bag.

📨 Exactly What to Write to Protect Yourself

Pat gives the language every pool pro should use, including:
 • Confirming the client takes responsibility
 • Noting structural issues are outside your scope
 • Stating you will maintain water quality only, not shell integrity
 • Recording that repairs are done by others, not you

🧨 Hidden Risks in Fancy Backyards

Steve asks the big question for pool pros in high-end markets:
 “What crazy features require extra insurance riders?”
 Pat breaks down:
 • Grottos
 • Waterfalls
 • Diving boards
 • Rock jump ledges
 • Slides
 • Custom features homeowners swear are ‘totally safe’

…and why touching some of these items (tightening a bolt, adjusting a slide, fixing a board) instantly becomes YOUR liability.

📘 What Insurance Actually Covers — and What It Really Doesn’t

Pat explains what’s included in CPA policies, from faulty work coverage to pop-pool enhancements, and why service companies shouldn’t act like builders unless they have builder-level insurance.

💬 Why Your Insurance Agent Should Be Your Second Brain

Steve shares real-world moments where calling Pat saved his ass.
 Pat explains that your agent should act like a consultant, not just a bill collector — especially when weird situations pop up.

🔌 Pools + Water + Electricity + People = Risk

Steve closes with the big truth:
 If you work around water and electricity, you MUST carry insurance.
CPA is a preferred sponsor, but the message is universal:
If you’re touching po

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:00)
what do I do to cover my ass in this sense?

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Insurance with your host, Steve Sherwood. And as always, we bring on our fantastic guest, Pat Grignon, who is vice president over at California Pool Association, also known as CPA. So Pat, again, thanks for coming on. We actually haven't seen each other in a couple of weeks because we do these like a couple at a clip and stuff. you know, I was traveling and you were traveling. So it's cool to be back together. And I think in the last

interlude, I had told you about two different pools that I had that were leaking. And the one I completely you told me like, let's just get away from this one. And I wrote them an email and sent them a letter and said like, we're done. You guys need to demo this. Easy peasy. The other one I told you was leaking because there's like a deck around part of it. And there's nothing on the other side except ground.

And obviously that ground is moving, but it is level around that area. My guy went to go fix the crack and he filled it. Looked really nice. And she called two days later and said it was losing water at a pretty steady rate again. So my guy said, you know, no, I can't fix this. He was like, we need to either get somebody to come and fiberglass into it, like over the shell. in case the shell breaks, like you're, good with the fiberglass or no more pull.

Speaker 1 (01:47)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47)
So she went and got a couple more opinions. So I told her like, Hey, like, let's be ready to part ways. And I'm going to send her this email. And I got back to her because I was like, I'll service the pool and keep filling it up until you figure this out. And, ⁓ they told her that they could like fix the pool. And I know that there are certain companies out there like Lee Tron, Lee Tronics. They show people how to like, you know, put that big staple in it and stuff like

But as far as like,

Number one, like, what do you know about those types of repairs failing and whatnot? And like, what do I do to cover my ass in this sense?

Like, should I keep this client? Should I let them go? Because I, she is a nice lady and it's in the middle of our route. Like we have notes of easy pool. It's just like, how much open, how much are we opening ourselves up to? And then do I need to come back to you and get like a, another rider or something like that to put on for holding a client like this?

You know, how much risk is there in this? Let's go.

Speaker 1 (02:46)
Well, first of all, thanks again for having me. Appreciate you having me on. So a little bit to unpack there. Yeah, you know, I think good record keeping is just a smart move in general. I think, you know, doesn't necessarily need to be, you know, like a notarized document or anything like that, but an email saying, hey, you know, like the original email when you notified her, hey, I think it's time to part ways or you should fill in your pool or get it completely demoed and rebuilt, you know, to have.

to have that in a file quote unquote somewhere, save that, save that email or that notification. And then, you know, she comes back and says, Hey, I've got it fixed like she did, and we should be good to go. You know, great. You know, you'd like to get that in an email from her as well.

Speaker 2 (03:29)
She's

getting it fixed. So it's not, it's not fixed yet. I just found out like you, you know, the shows here are cool because, ⁓ it's like what's going on right now in my life, in my business, right? Like she's, she's definitely going to get it fixed, but she doesn't know who she's going with, but there's been multiple people that have said, Hey, we can fix it. So in this process while I'm waiting for it, and I guess this would be the same question of like, I'm trying to

do good business. So I want to continue to take care of the pool until she either gets it fixed, or she gets rid of it. Yeah, on either instance, just a follow up email should be good enough with that to have her say that she is fixing that stuff. Should I go ahead and say like, you know, we even though we're taking care of the pool, we really can't be responsible for any of these structurally related issues that may that if that have come up and that may come up in the future, right?

Speaker 1 (04:24)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, look, think any sort of paper trail that you can get and look, some people email and communicate with you. Some people you're talking on the phone, but, you know, generally speaking, if it's a phone call, you send a recap email and say, hey, per conversation.

Speaker 2 (04:40)
That's exactly what I was just going to say. So that happens a lot. And at the beginning, know, Jen would be like, ⁓ what did you say on the phone? And like, I would be like, ⁓ shit. Like I have to follow it up with a text or follow it up with an email because then it could be two weeks later. And she was like, Hey, like, what are you charging for that? And I told them over the phone and like, we didn't write it down. And now I'm like, I think it was 350 hours.

Speaker 1 (05:03)
Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 (05:04)
It

be it could be not and then you're like, you're like, oh, it was $350 and they're like, you said it was 250. You know, and then like now you got to back up, you know, and it's not that you are lying. It's just that you really don't recall. Yeah. But that's why the paper trail for everything is so, super important. So you could look back and say, hey, this is exactly what it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (05:22)
Yeah, look, because you're not. mean, we're not, you know, we're not the insurance police. You're not the police. You know, like all you can do is identify a hazard and recommend that they fix it. And, you know, it's really up to your risk tolerance to stay on it or not. Some folks would prefer to walk away. Some folks would stay on it. And, you know, like that, that's all good. That's to the individual. But, you know, even as you're having phone calls to just get something like, hey, per our conversation, you know, you got this leak. There's nothing that we feel like.

we can do about this, you we're going to continue to service it, but you need to get this fixed and it's outside of the scope.

Speaker 2 (05:57)
I get that. And also like, I'm gonna let everyone listening into like my risk averseness with this. Like the other pool, I need to be clear, like this was on a hill in Silver Lake, if it was full and it went, like it's going down into other people's pools and other people's houses. And I've dealt with that. I've seen that before where there's a landslide and like there was a pool, had four feet of mud in it. Like no joke, you know, like this is no joke.

This pool is on like a residential street in low meter. It's got a Like a parking lot in the like next to it like back up to it and then it's on the street like it's like the it's not the corner house, but it's like ⁓ the first house on that street so even if this thing literally broke open like I'm not worried that ⁓ Yeah, anything would really happen other than like the water would just go to the ground. Yeah, it would be literally empty. Yeah

Speaker 1 (06:46)
Thanks

That's a really good thing to point out, right? You got the big hill slide. You're getting sued whether you have coverage or no coverage, regardless if something on that hillside breaks the Silver Lake. breaks. Water goes down. You know, got a mudslide thing. Like you're getting sued by everybody who got a pebble on their backyard.

Yeah, that's that it's always good to consider all those factors. And look, I think it's a good move. I think if you sent those emails or those texts and just say, you know, hey, and if you especially if you have something from her

or if you had a conversation like, hey, for the conversation, you you found a company that's going to fix this for you. We're happy to maintain service in the meantime. if you have those things just tucked away somewhere, you can at least build a pattern,

or if you had a conversation like, hey, for the conversation, you you found a company that's going to fix this for you. We're happy to maintain service in the meantime. And, you know, if you have those things just tucked away somewhere, you can at least build a pattern, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:47)
I don't think that I would have continued on with the pool or wanted to continue on with the pool if she hadn't already admitted like, Hey, like, I know this isn't your fault. It has nothing to do with you guys. ⁓ and she's happy with the service. like everything is fine with that. So I wouldn't want to fix something that's, that's not broken, but again, structural stuff and electrical stuff and you know, things like that. These are serious, right? So you want to make sure that you take all the precautions that you can. So that's why I wanted to talk about this.

Speaker 1 (22:08)
And then, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:14)
with you on the air. building on this, there, cause I asked you at the end, I was like, is there like a certain something that happens at the pool or like we've talked about it on previous shows, like where slides and diving boards, like obviously if I said, I have a client and it's my uncle and I need to take care of this pool, he's Uber rich and he's going to pay me, he's going to pay for the insurance. This insurance is pretty expensive, right?

Yeah, wait, before you answer that. Yeah, before you go there. I want to know other things that like, hey, they have a grotto that like you could jump off of, you know, like you shouldn't be covered on the side for that. Like, what are some of the writers that people might not even know that are listening out there that are like single polars and man like

you know, in the area that I service, like there's a lot of really wealthy people, you know, so you go into these backyards that are like people's second, third, fourth, fifth homes, you know, and they're like these compounds and ⁓ they have all this crazy stuff. You know, like slides and rock waterfall slides and you know, ⁓ like lagoons around the spa and stuff. you're just like, Whoa. So what are some of the things that like you would want to get covered on the side for?

Speaker 1 (23:26)
Yeah, so you know, look, I knew you'd asked earlier, you know, does my, does a policy cover this? It really just depends. mean, our, policy has a lot of enhancements for, you know, for a service company.

Speaker 2 (23:38)
What are some of those?

Speaker 1 (23:41)
You know, so there's like faulty work. some, there's some coverage for pop pool, which depending on how that's written this whole pool cracks in half discussion we were just on, you know, that may kick in and give you some coverage there, even though technically it's not a, not considered a pop pool, but like, so it's different for builders, right? If you're a builder that's installing a diving board or, or, or, you know, the, you know, the, the, the slide, then that's, that's some very specific insurance. Yes, it's very pricey.

you know, from a service standpoint, just don't like repair it. And it's pretty hard to say that, hey, you came over and provided weekly service to my pool and then someone broke their neck on my diving board. You know, like, but if you were to tighten the diving board, the screws on the diving board down or do something to service it now, like you're done, right?

Speaker 2 (24:32)
Yeah,

but how like that? Okay, but now that I just had somebody call me like right before we hopped on and he had texted about his vacuum. Like, did you check out the vacuum? And I called my you know, Eddie, this our service tech and I was like, yo, I was like, this is the second time he's asking about the vacuum. did you? Did you look at it? And he was like, yeah, he's like, it doesn't work. He was like, but he was like, we didn't buy it. He was like, it's a well, it's like the one that you recommended to buy, because I don't buy vacuums anymore, because they break so quickly.

Speaker 1 (24:59)
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (25:01)
that I don't want to deal with with with fixing them or whatever like I was like where did you buy it Amazon like you know did you get the extended warranty like I told you to so it's like certain things I definitely don't want to mess with driving boards are are another one of them but like what's a crazy rider before we end yeah

Speaker 1 (25:17)
It's a separate policy. you're doing repair work or like diving board installations, you essentially need to have like a full blown construction, a pool construction policy with additional riders that are going to cost you an arm and a leg. if that's your business and you're making money on it, rock and roll, you better put in a ton of diving boards and a ton of slides to make it worth the insurance premium. So you can cover anything. It's just a matter of, you know, just

People just want to avoid doing a one-off thing and ultimately talk to your insurance agent. I'm a phone call away, you call, we talk all the time. Like, hey, there's this, it's a little bit weird, it's outside of what my normal day-to-day looks like. What should I do? Is there something I need to consider? Or do I have coverage for this? Every policy is so different with the riders you can have and the ones that generally don't. Just make a phone call, talk to your insurance agent and run a buy-in.

There's nothing wrong with that. They should be available to touch bases on. It's something weird.

Speaker 2 (26:17)
Well, there it is. You can pretty much get covered for anything, right? But there, you know, there are, there are certain things that like I've admitted to you that like I would never actually speak out loud. You know what I'm saying? Where like I've into like a weird situation and I'm like, like, whoa, like, that was crazy. Like, and I had to call you and be like, Hey, like, you know, what do you do here? So, you know, you can literally talk to.

Speaker 1 (26:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:44)
know, your insurance agent about about anything and I said in the last show of mine, you know, weren't on with me, Pat, but I was like, Pat would agree with this. Like, you know, we would love for you to have insurance through California Pool Association, but you have to have some sort of insurance.

Speaker 1 (26:58)
Yeah, yeah. really, just it's not in the grand scheme of things. If you look at it as a percentage of your revenue that you bring in annually from from your profession, whether it's building, servicing, inspecting any of that stuff. If you've you know, no one wants to over insure or spend a bunch of money for these crazy one offs that will never happen. But the basic stuff, you know, it's not going to represent a huge percentage of your total income.

And you get millions of bucks worth of coverage for not a lot of dollars to do it. So it's certainly worth checking out. And absolutely talk to your agent. What else should I have? Whether you buy it or not. Right. I mean, if someone calls me like, hey, think about this policy, this policy, this policy up to you. But like these are some similar policies that that other pool companies have that do the same type of work. And you should have a relationship like that trusted advisor kind of consultative.

relationship with your insurance agent, know, otherwise, you know, just buy it online from somewhere and don't talk to anybody. That's some of the benefit of working with working with a human.

Speaker 2 (28:00)
Well, that's why we're getting the word out here, you know, on talking pools about California Pool Association and just insurance in general and making sure that, you know, everybody, we're all doing pools and pools and electricity and people, all, they just don't mix, right? So we just want to make sure that we're covered in each and every way. So Pat, thanks again for coming on. I really appreciate you having there. And in the last show, I had said that you guys had re-upped for a new sponsorship. I...

Really appreciate you guys sticking with us and it'll be another year of insurance interludes. So we'll catch you next week and thank you so so much, Pat.

Speaker 1 (28:35)
wouldn't miss it. Appreciate it, Steve. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (28:37)
Have a good one guys.