It Shouldn’t Take a Child’s Death to Fix Our Industry — But Here We Are

This week on Mondays Down Under, Lee (Australia) and Shane (New Zealand) jump in—literally and figuratively—with a conversation that starts with cold weather swims and ends with one of the biggest training breakthroughs for the pool industry across Oceania.

What was supposed to be a short topic grew into a full deep-dive on safety, qualifications, licensing, training pathways, industry standards, and why professionalizing pool service matters more now than ever.

Episode Summary

Lee and Shane open with some updates from home: unseasonably cold weather, chilly swims, and Lee’s grandson discovering his natural frog-leg breaststroke in the bathtub. The laughter fades into a sobering discussion about water safety after the tragic drowning of an eight-year-old autistic boy in Victoria—highlighting the importance of early swimming lessons, supervision, and community awareness as summer approaches in Australia.

From there, the episode shifts to major industry news: New Zealand now has a recognized Cert III qualification in swimming pool and spa building. This is a huge step forward in lifting professionalism across the region.

Lee breaks down what this means for both countries:
 • How Cert III and IV training works
 • The difference between qualification vs. licensing
 • Why licensing varies by state
 • What RPL (Recognized Prior Learning) is
 • Why experienced techs may still benefit from formal certification
 • How traineeships work
 • And what technicians can expect once NZ’s training pathway fully rolls out

Shane brings the on-the-ground perspective from Auckland—wondering how many long-time techs will take up the qualification once it’s widely available, and how many employers will start funding their staff to do it.

The discussion expands into the broader issue of professional respect. Pool technicians handle dangerous chemicals, electricity, hydraulics, and water safety every day. With those responsibilities should come recognition, standardized training, and a path toward a protected, respected trade.

Lee also pulls back the curtain on how IRLearning—the training division of SPASA—operates, including:
 • What assessments look like
 • How RPL interviews work
 • What evidence students need
 • Typical timeframes
 • Why students often overthink the process
 • How seasonal downtime becomes “assignment season” for techs

The episode wraps with guidance for anyone interested in pursuing certification, traineeships, or qualifications to elevate their career.

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03.672)
Good afternoon. Good evening. Good morning. Good whatever time of the day it is that you are listening to us. Thank you for joining Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pools podcast. I'm Lee in Australia and I'm joined by Shane, my New Zealand buddy in Auckland. How are you Shane?

Really good lay. I'd say live in the dream but it's wet and miserable today but you know it is what it is. Another day.

Great.

We have not had great weather even here. It's like today we're recording this on the 18th of November. And it's damn near like it's two weeks away from officially being summer. And it does not feel like summer here. I wanna be back in sunny Queensland. Hey guys, I know one of my people that I've worked with while I up there is an avid Lister. Hey Nick.

No, it doesn't mean I'm coming back. I know you want me to come back. I'm not coming back yet. But I do wish I had a bit of your warm weather. So yeah, it's definitely been chilly. I think we've all had a bit of a blast. I know there's snow on the mountains. So go figure.

Speaker 2 (01:20.974)
Wow, yeah, that's crazy. You said it was 18 degrees today. So, so.

Lovely and sunny but yeah a bit on the chilly side. Jeans and jumpers. Yesterday I even had my Ugg boots on.

Have you been for a swim yet, Lise? No?

Well, I have not been for a swim. I do have my cover on my pool to make it warmer. So, hoping to capture a bit of extra heat. Do you have, I only have solar heating. don't have a heat pump. So hopefully it's capturing a bit more heat. My grandson, who's only six months old, nearly six months old is, has been in for a couple of swims on warmer days when the pool was warmer.

But we've hit a cold spurt, yeah, I don't think he'll be getting in anytime too soon. We'll have to wait till it warms up. It's too cold for his cute little butt.

Speaker 2 (02:23.238)
Yeah, no, fair enough. Did he, was it like instinct as soon as he went into the water? You know, kind of doggy paddling?

Actually, funnily enough, it is. And I've noticed that even with the bath, this kid is like he's doing breaststroke. Like he's got the frog legs going and the arms going. And it's just natural instinct even in the bath. It's just crazy that that just seems to be a natural instinct of babies. So good to see.

You might end up in the poor world, you never...

And he has actually been gifted by one of his great grandparents some swimming lessons. So he'll be in there swimming in no time. That's for sure.

So important that is to start off on the young

Speaker 1 (03:15.352)
Absolutely, yep. Absolutely paramount that all kids learn to swim. Can't say that enough. Safety is absolutely so important. And we had a horrible situation just in Victoria last week where an eight-year-old autistic boy drowned in a display home pool.

So he lived in a house, a few, I think he lived in that house or may have been visiting, but it was a few doors up and went wandering and got into the pool yard. The pool yard was completely compliant. There was no issues there, but he got into the pool yard and he drowned in the pool. It's extremely tragic and sad. So my heart goes out to the family, but the father's calling for all pools to have

hardcovers on them. And...

night.

sort of doesn't sit well with me to be quite frank. Yes a hardcover would have prevented his death but in Australia we have some of the toughest fencing regulations and yet that child still got through the fence so I don't know it's a tough one very sad one tragic one so

Speaker 1 (04:46.092)
Yes, swimming lessons. Absolutely paramount. My boys all did swimming lessons at a very young age. Obviously very fortunate that financially we could afford to do so. I know some families not economically something that they can fit into their budget. But in Australia, it just is so important. We're surrounded by water. families have properties with dams on acres.

and therein lies a problem. So water safety, teach them to swim. Absolutely. But also parental supervision. Can't go past that too.

Just anybody in general, think, know, whether you're surrounded by water, you know, in a country that is surrounded by water or whether you are a landlord, you know, I'm sure there's going to be a time if you are from a landlord country, you're going to go on holiday and it's probably going to be next to the water.

Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:50.924)
And I do know that it's always been a struggle for lifeguards on the Australian beaches. And we all know how blessed we are with our beaches over here. We've got hordes of them and they're all beautiful and everybody wants to swim at them, but not all of them are safe to swim at. So we need to be really aware of that and cautious. And I understand that that's quite a problem for people from different cultural backgrounds.

and from different countries where they haven't been blessed with the facility of having swimming lessons, the ability to be able to teach their kids to swim. And unfortunately, there seems to be a rise in deaths from drowning in a variety of cultural backgrounds from the inability to manage yourself in water.

So yeah, definitely putting the message of water safety out there this summer. So be safe everyone. So today's topic is, well actually carrying on from last week's topic. So we have a little bit of bit of news that hit our email boxes, inboxes this week after talking about Australian standards and New Zealand standards last week. And we talked about the need

for a qualification in New Zealand that that's something that's lacking. We got an email so they must have been listening to us Shane. They must have been listening to the point. And they must have heard our wishes. There was actually news from New Zealand that there is a finally a qualification assert three in swimming pool and spa building.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:47.02)
So there is now a recognized qualification. Sparza have been working very closely with Wahanga Araroa. I hope I said that right. And I'm getting a clap from the New Zealander, so that must be good. so Institute of Research and Learning, IR Learning have been working alongside them and Sparza.

to actually get these qualifications in place. So this is only the first of what we hope will be more. And we've been working very hard on this to get this recognized through the NZQA framework. So great achievement there. Thank you, Sparza. Thank you, IRLearning. And we hope that, yeah, this is just the first of bigger and better things to come.

in lifting the professionalism of our industry here in Australia and in New Zealand. particularly New Zealand getting you guys those qualifications and hopefully getting Shane his Cert III in swimming full and spa service in the not too distant future.

Well, not just me, but everybody else out there. I think it could be quite interesting if this Cert III does come into New Zealand within the next 12 months. I'm very curious the amount of service technicians just coming into the industry that will go about taking it.

compared to the amount of service technicians that have been in the industry, you five, 10, 15 years, however long it may be. That will take it. It'll be interesting to see what the comparison is. It's not a cheap course at the end of the day, at the end of the day, from my understanding, you're going to have it for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (09:52.17)
So in that sense, know, it's going to be very beneficial. And I just, I've got a feeling there could just be more employers paying for it for their new staff or the staff, which has, you know, been in the industry for only a couple of years. So it'll be interesting to see what the statistics are on that.

Yeah, look, certainly interesting. It depends, I suppose, on the point of doing the course. So if New Zealand brings into place that the CERT 3 in pool and spa service is like in New South Wales and in Queensland, that it's actually the pathway to getting a license in swimming pool and spa servicing, then you're probably going to find a lot more people will do it because there is a desire to get that license. So

in New South Wales and in Queensland to do work over a certain figure and I think in New South Wales it's 5,000, in Queensland it's 3,300. You need to have a pool on spa service license and

So when you say that, that will be anything from refurbishing, installing equipment, a very, very major green pool recovery. If it was going to cost that much. mean, would that all come into that range?

Yes, absolutely. So I can actually show, I can show the screen. I have them. I do have them. So that is my supervisor's certificate. And then that's the contractor's license for our actual company. So, yeah. So this is something that you hold. now technically

Speaker 1 (11:47.052)
You should not be completing any work over that value in your state. If you're not licensed to do that work. it happen? Yes, it does. Like people have, don't have a license and they're doing work above that value. But if the shit hits the fan and you get in trouble, the department of fair trading or somebody reports you for inferior work or problems or whatever, they make it complaint.

they're going to come to you and ask, are you licensed? And that's where it's going to come into play. it's, but to me, it's about lifting the professionalism of our industry. It's about showing that you care enough to have done the training, get your qualification. And it's a damn nice thing to be able to say, I'm licensed in swimming pool and spa servicing.

It shows your clients that you take what you're doing seriously. You're not just a cowboy with a pole. Sorry, cowboys out there that are listening. But you're not just some...

John Doe with a pole that's gone to Bunnings and bought a pole and bought a scoop and whacked pool service on the side of his vehicle and is all of doing pool servicing. You're actually taking what you're doing seriously and you're being professional. And that is what we all want. We want respect for our trade. And so this is a way of going about that and building that respect for our trade.

So yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:29.634)
need to renew that license Lee, has it got a date on there? Yes does.

Yep. So mine actually expires next year. Yeah. March next year. And even the company one actually is April next year. So they'll be renewed and yeah, it's just part of process.

You would do your cert free qualification, would, however long it takes, I'm assuming maybe 12, 18 months.

depends on the way you do it. depends on the way you do it, but we'll come back. We'll circle back to that question.

Yeah, and then you would obviously be assessed at the end of it, you have an exam or however the process is and then if you pass, obviously you will be given your license. How long does that license?

Speaker 1 (14:27.657)
You missed a step there. So we don't do the licensing. So when I say we, sorry, I put my IRL hat on there. for those listeners who are unaware, I am a trainer with IR learning. So with the Institute of Research and Learning and that is Sparza's training division.

And we run the training course. So we are a registered training authority or organization, sorry, RTO. And we administer or we oversee the learning or the granting of those qualifications of the CERT 3 and CERT 4 in Pull and Spa service and the CERT 3 and CERT 4 in Pull and Spa building.

And there's also other qualifications in aquatic technical operator and also in the fencing realm as well. So we deliver quite a few industry based training, the cert three in Pullens Bar Service is the pathway to getting a license. Like I said, in New South Wales and Queensland, it's not, it doesn't get you the license, but you can't get a license without it. If that makes sense. So where are the registered training or organization?

You then apply to the state government through the Department of Fair Trading in New South Wales. In Queensland, it's through QBCC. And you apply for your licence. You have to supply them with your qualification, certificate. And there's other things that you actually have to supply them with. And that's very state to state. So, yeah, they do do change that from time to time. Think when

I did mine, had to also give, like I had to give my CV to show my experience in the industry. I had to give letters of recommendation from clients or industry bodies. All of those sort of things to show that I was worthy of it. The rules have probably changed a bit since I applied, but yeah, that's you're applying to Department of Fair Trading and the qualification only makes up part of that. We don't...

Speaker 1 (16:42.914)
So as an RTO, while we grant your qualification, because you've earned it through either the learning process or through recognised prior learning, we just grant you the qualification. We have nothing to do with the licensing. So, and the license, unfortunately, the license is for refurbishers. So it is for people who do resurfacing and refurbishing of pools.

they come under the same license. However, they need to complete the cert three to get that license. And this is quite a contentious issue, but they need to complete the cert three in Pullens Bar Service to be able to apply for that license. Yet in that cert three, there is nothing about refurbishing or resurfacing. And so those guys that are refurbishers or resurfaces are getting a qualification that they technically won't use.

to get a license that they need. It's really crazy, but again, don't shoot the messenger. It's got nothing to do with the registered training authority. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see if that changes in the not too distant future. I do actually, I'm part of the advisory board. I'm participating in...

assisting with the advisory board for the Cert III and Cert IV in Pull and Spar Service that are being rewritten. And so I've actually got a meeting with them in two weeks. So I might come back with a bit of news from that for you. So yeah, absolutely. But just to go back a bit, we were talking about the delivery of the course. So about doing the learning and sitting exams and that sort of thing. So it's not quite

exciting.

Speaker 1 (18:35.586)
that sort of way, or there's no exams per se to sit. There are assessments. You do need to show that you've learned what you've learned and that you can apply it. That's done through knowledge assessment and through practical tasks whereby you generally video yourself and upload those videos to that meet the criteria of the task that you've been asked to perform. So that is what we call train out. So that's actually the learning process.

There is an alternative to that. And this is where I was going to go back to your comment about you were saying you wondered how many people in New Zealand that had experience in the industry and being in the industry for many years would bother about getting their qualification. And because like, let's face it, they would be doing a training course for stuff that they've been doing for years. So this is where recognized prior learning comes into play. So recognized prior learning is

recognition of all the previous experience you've had and how you but you need to demonstrate that experience. So you will need to supply evidence that meets certain criteria. This is all done in accordance with training.gov.au so that we're meeting the knowledge and practical assessments criteria or the knowledge and

Knowledge and practical.

It's not assessments, criteria is just the word. it's just showing you or showing us as a registered training organization that you do know what you're doing, that you are suitably experienced and you can demonstrate that by way of documentation, evidence and even videos. So there's lots of different things and we compile you as the learner.

Speaker 1 (20:36.6)
compile all your information and submit that for assessment. Then you also have a third party referee. This is how it works in Australia. So I don't know if that'll change in New Zealand, but you have a third party referee, somebody who is suitably qualified. So generally somebody who holds the cert three in pool and spa service, or has been in the industry for a significant amount of time. And can also, they also have to

prove their suitability as a third party referee and they can then attesting to your or confirming your suitability to get that qualification that you do do do and can do what you're claiming that you do. That's basically how that works. So that's recognized priling. we do also have what we call a competency conversation at the end of that. And so we're whereby

myself and the student, I like to do it over Zoom. So we have a face-to-face conversation and we talk about all the things that you do. So I might say to you, talk me through how you do a pull service from the moment you pull up in the car out front. And so you'll step me through the whole process, what you're looking for, what you're checking for, whether you knock on the customer's door even, like you'll talk me through the...

the whole process. And then I might say to you things like customer rings up and they've got a problem with their suction cleaner. Talk me through how you troubleshoot it.

Or the flying stalkers run away.

Speaker 1 (22:20.844)
No, that's a job interview question. You know that one. Another one, like you walk into a plant room and you can hear a loud squealing noise or screeching noise. What is it and what do do about it? And so then you'll talk me through that process of how you isolate, find what do you think the problem is?

How do you go about isolating it and dealing with it and that sort of thing. So it's just a way of you demonstrating. I'll also ask you chemistry questions and all sorts of things. There's a multitude of things that we discussed. Generally goes for about an hour or so. And I upload that as part of your evidence submission to support your claim of knowledge. And yeah, so there is two routes that you can go down. So you can go down the train out route where you're doing the study.

and you're actually learning and showing me that you've learned it by answering your assessment questions and undertaking the practical tasks. Or you can go down the RPL journey, which is showing me your level of experience and knowledge through evidence. Yeah, and that's how it basically works.

So what is the average duration for the circuit? How long is process? Yeah, can imagine everybody's learning abilities is very different. And I guess it's always going to depend. mean, if you've got a certain task that you need to do and, you know, say for instance, the retail shop doesn't.

They don't have that task for the next four months. Obviously that's going to postpone that in a way, but is there, is there almost like a deadline that it has to be done by?

Speaker 1 (24:14.892)
You've got two years in which to do it from the date of enrollment to the date of completion is a maximum of two years. You can take as little or as long as you like within that time frame. So I've had students knock out getting the course done as a train out in two or three months. So they've just knuckled in and got it done.

I just can't

Speaker 1 (24:43.086)
And I've had students that are doing RPL, dragging out for the two years and do it in the last month. Please don't do that to me. So I think the problem is with those sort of things is we are seasonal workers. Let's face it. This is our busy time of the year. This is our crazy time of the year. I can always tell when it's raining somewhere because my influx of student work on that day.

hits my inbox to be marked. It's quite funny. I go, yep, the weather's shit in Sydney today, because I'm getting smashed with assessments from students in Sydney. yeah, it's, so it depends on each individual student, but I do tend to find that people tend to overthink things. So, and they put them in the too hard basket. And when they actually realize, hey, actually this wasn't that hard after all.

it, it's yeah. The hardest thing I always say to the students, the hardest thing is starting. Once you start, realize that it actually isn't, isn't that difficult, especially if you're working in the industry. It's things that you're doing on a regular basis. So it's all, it's all good. so then you can train.

You're selling it to me, Leigh, I'm very excited that one day it will come to New Zealand and yeah, mean with this, the new Seraphree pool building, know, hopefully this is the catalyst to start that ball rolling.

very much. really hope for you guys it is. And I really hope for our industry it is. I think as we've talked about many times before, it's a job that actually holds a great deal of responsibility and or should hold a great deal of responsibility in everybody's eyes. And so if you're a technician that does not hold a great sense of responsibility in your job, then there's something clearly wrong.

Speaker 1 (26:50.86)
because you should. You're dealing with people's health and safety. You're dealing with chemicals, dangerous goods. You're dealing with electricity and water. You're dealing with the safety of kids in drowning situations like we talking about before. So we have a great deal of responsibility and therefore we should take what we do very seriously and so too should the general public. They should have more respect.

for us as a trade, as a recognised trade. And that is certainly the move that Sparser is trying to generate for both Australia and New Zealand. So I really hope that they come through on that.

It will happen like it will.

Well, what was supposed to be a short subject actually ended up being quite long. So I think that draws us to a close for today's session. So if listeners do have an interest in actually undertaking a course or getting qualified, IR Learning is the training division of Sparser Australia in New Zealand. So while it's not

available in New Zealand. New Zealanders can complete the Australian one if you so wish, but I don't know that it'll be recognised in New Zealand. But yes, if students want to undertake that training, there's also some other great training courses on there that I've spoken about previously, the e-learning courses, but the full qualifications are there. There is also traineeships. So in New South Wales, definitely, in Queensland, I think they are available as well.

Speaker 1 (28:37.24)
There is a traineeship in swimming pool and spa technician. So in swimming pool and spa service. So if that's something that suits your business or one of your staff, then that could be, or you're looking at putting on a new junior staff member. That could be a way to go as well. So reach out to irelearning.com. So there's no AU on the end of that one. It's just irelearning.com and jump on the website, have a look.

and if you are talking to Mitch or Renee, if you ring through, make sure you tell them that Lee sent you.

Have a discount code this time Lee?

have a discount code, but it can't hurt to ask, can it? So tell them Lee sent you and see if they can do you a deal. But anyway, so that draws us to a close for today's podcast. I hope you've got something out of it. It's good to see some movement in the right direction in our industry. If you have any questions, please drop us a line at talkingpools at gmail.com where Rudy will be sure to pass that on to

most applicable podcast host or you can request the podcast host that you want to nominate for that question. So any questions, any topic suggestions, anything that you would like to know more about we would love to hear it. We really appreciate you listening. We love that you follow us along. Follow us on your favourite podcast posting site and make sure you subscribe. Anyway until next week we wish you a fantastic and profitable

Speaker 1 (30:20.63)
week. Stay safe. See you guys!

Bye bye.