Phosphates, Salt Cells & the ‘Cloudy Test’ Myth (+ a quick AI cameo)

Hosts: Andrea & Paulette
Cameo: Rudy with Joe Trusty (Pool Magazine / PoolMarketing.com)
Sponsor: Revvdup Apparel

Andrea and Paulette kick off with shop talk, cooler temps, and a spike in phosphate readings. They unpack the long-running “are phosphates a thing?” debate, why South Florida sees big swings, and how phosphates intersect with salt systems, algae control, and filter life. Mid-show, Rudy drops in a short interview with Joe Trusty on where AI is already helping pool pros. Back with the duo, you’ll get practical strategies: when to treat, what “weekly micro-dosing” looks like, why some removers cloud and others don’t, and a clear explanation of orthophosphates vs. organic phosphates. They wrap with listener Q&A vibes, contact info, and a shoutout to the sponsor.

Chapters & timestamps

• 00:00 – Cold open, shirts, rain, and “hey, are we talking phosphates?”
• 01:15 – Framing the debate: not a problem until it’s a problem
• 05:20 – 26:12 – AI mini-segment: Rudy x Joe Trusty on AI in service ops, comms/reporting, social content, and hardware touches
• 26:33 – Back to phosphates: why the industry split happened (’80s vs. ’90s, municipal dosing)
• 30:12 – Regional reality check (South FL vs. everywhere else)
• 32:16 – The “zero chlorine but everything else perfect” mystery → when to suspect phosphates
• 34:30 – Babies, bather load, rain, refill: organic load & demand
• 35:10 – Organic vs. orthophosphate (chelators/metal treatments vs. algae nutrient)
• 39:17 – Sources: leaves, soaps, fill water, golf course runoff, dogs/ducks, stain removers
• 41:40 – Salt cells & phosphates: coating plates, reduced output, shortened cell life
• 43:05 – SulfURic acid in salt pools? Why sulfates are a no for SWGs
• 46:10 – Builder sizing, why many SWGs can’t keep up when phosphates are high
• 47:26 – Lanthanum chloride 101 (all brands use it), treatment side-effects on filters
• 49:20 – Weekly micro-dosing via squirt bottle: fewer callbacks, less clouding, charge for it
• 53:18 – Cloudiness myth: it’s often carbonates reacting (alkalinity/calcium), not a “phosphate indicator”
• 58:35 – Why “cap tests” lead to over-treating; test properly or dose conservatively
• 1:03:48 – “Max” targets? Context matters: 100 ppb vs. up to 500+ workable (non-salt) if algae is controlled
• 1:05:18 – Alum (aluminum sulfate) as an option; when it’s a “whole process”
• 1:07:51 – No, liquid chlorine doesn’t contain phosphates (quick bench test story)
• 1:09:31 – Wrap, how to reach the team, revvdup swag update, contests

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Transcript

0:11

You.

Can't tell if the chemistry.

Is good by looking at it.

It wasn't clear yesterday.

For the last time, the saltwater blue is a.

Chlorine Pool This is the Talking Pools podcast with pool pros from every region in the country.

0:29

If it happens in a pool, you'll hear about it here.

Everything from tips and hacks to the latest tricks and trends.

Breaking news.

We lay it on the line.

We tell it like it is because we think you deserve to know.

0:53

Hello, it's us King Pools podcaster hosts.

I'm Andrea and this is.

And you were going to say you're Paulette?

No, I wasn't going to say that he's.

Stuttered.

Why would I want to be Paulette?

You like, you like my shirt.

1:09

I don't think I've worn this on the show yet, but.

I know I have never seen it.

Well, it says introverted but willing to discuss pools because I love pools.

And thank you to Joe Trustee.

Your mental illness right there.

1:27

That shows your mental illness right there.

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

It's a mental illness in it.

Joe Trustee sent me this from Pool magazine, so thank you to them.

So how's it going?

How was your week?

1:44

It's going good.

Nothing to report, nothing.

Nothing bad.

The day the week went easy for, you know, the pools.

Pool wise, they're all pretty clean.

I noticed that the water's getting warmer.

I mean cooler, cooler.

I was like.

It's getting cooler and the air is a little cooler.

2:03

We had some rain and I also noticed some.

Phosphate.

So is that what we're talking about today?

We are.

We're talking about phosphates today.

And that, Julie, is the chill.

OK, well, I guess let's dive into it.

2:29

Hey there.

It's.

Tuesday, time to unwind with Paulette and Andrea, the best of a kind in the world.

The pools we're diving right in, cleaning and laughter.

2:51

Let the fun begin.

See you next Tuesday will make you laugh with stories and knowledge.

Come take us Black.

We would like to extend our deepest gratitude to the sponsors of the 2025 Talking Pools Podcast Mentor of the Year Award.

3:13

Our title sponsor, Blu-ray XL, is driven by a mission to simplify pool maintenance for both service professionals and homeowners, saving time, reducing unnecessary chemical costs, and removing contaminants from pool and spa waters to deliver true Peace of Mind.

3:29

Our Gold sponsor, Lamont Company has long been a pioneer in water quality analysis.

Through decades of innovation, they have developed a broad range of world class testing solutions trusted across countless applications, helping ensure healthier water everywhere it's needed.

Our Gold sponsor, Rev It Up Apparel energizes communities, teams and businesses with bold, high quality custom apparel designed to inspire pride and unity.

3:56

This recognition would not be possible without these three outstanding companies whose support demonstrates the importance of mentorship in the swimming pool industry.

On behalf of the entire Talking Pools community, thank you.

Blu-ray XL, Lamott Company and Revved Up Apparel.

4:12

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4:32

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Want clearer pools and sharper skills, easier routes and more profit?

4:53

Want to learn the insurance and outs of pool service from an industry pro?

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5:11

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Today is Joe Trusty, CEO of Pool Magazine and Pool marketing.com.

He's been at the front of the conversation on how technology, especially AI, can be used by service businesses like ours to get ahead of the curve.

5:36

So you may have seen him at some of the different trade shows speaking on the topic.

I know he's talked on it at quite a few of them or possibly read his work on the future of pool marketing and business growth because there's a lot of stuff out there that he's put out as well.

5:56

One of the people who definitely believes in the culture of sharing versus the culture of gatekeeping.

So I'm excited to have him here with us this evening.

Joe Trustee.

Joe, how are you doing, Sir?

I'm doing well tonight.

Thanks for having me on 1st Rudy.

Really appreciate the invitation.

6:13

Not a problem at all Joe, always happy to have you.

Now you've spoken in the industry about AIA lot.

I've spoken about AI in the pool industry, NESPA in Atlantic City, Master Pools Guild, United Aqua Group.

Last year I got to talk at Bio Labs National Conference and either even wrote a great article about where AI and the pool industry and service industry connect for Forbes.

6:37

I saw that fantastic piece.

But I'm excited to be able to chat with all of you guys tonight because I mean, you're actually the ones that are out in the field, you're running routes and fixing equipment and you're talking to homeowners.

And whether you realize it or not, AI is already probably probably a pretty big part of your business.

6:55

But let's get the scary stuff out of the way first.

I mean, when most of us here AII mean, I think the first thing that comes to mind isn't a pool truck, it's robots taking over the world. 100% correct.

I hear AI and I am thinking Megan.

It's ChatGPT writing some kids term paper.

7:15

It's or a deepfake celebrity telling us to buy crypto on their page.

I mean, but here's the thing, it's already here.

It's not here in some sci-fi way.

It's here in the real stuff that we're using everyday.

You just not might be calling it AI.

Yeah, I mean, the GPS, the GPS app that rerouted you in traffic this morning, that's got AI connected to it.

7:38

The photos that your iPhone automatically organizes by personal location.

It's also deeply interwoven with AI.

Your Google Calendar suggesting when to leave for your next appointment, that's also AII mean we're using it.

It's just really, really subtle, seamless.

7:54

It's hiding in the software that we use everyday and it's saving US time in ways that we don't really spend a lot of time thinking about.

Now what's happening is, is those kinds of technologies, they're starting to make their way into our world, into the pool service industry.

8:10

And it's not just at the corporate level or with big national companies.

I'm talking about the independent operators and a lot of techs that are on the ground.

And you may not have called it AI when you first saw it.

Maybe it was a new scheduling app, or a piece of equipment that started sending you real time alerts, or some new way of logging your service reports.

8:30

That just feels easier.

But what's behind those improvements?

It's really artificial intelligence, machine learning, predictive analytics, whatever label you want to slap on it, It's tech that's learning from you.

It's adapting, automating and doing a lot of the boring stuff in the background so that you don't have to.

8:49

Where has AI already started making a real impact in Pool service operations?

One of the components I'm going to talk about is a service software that a lot of people are using already called Pool Brain and their integration with a product called Water Guru.

9:06

Now let me start with one of those most exciting shifts I've seen the the integration between those two applications.

You got Water Guru, which is a device that sits, it installs right in the skimmer lid.

It's not some clunky lab kit.

It doesn't need a Wi-Fi bridge box or some fancy homeowner setup.

9:23

You just drop it in and now you've got daily readings, not estimates or of actual free chlorine, pH, alkalinity, CYA, water, camp pump flow.

I mean, real numbers, real time.

Now, you pair that with a program like Pool Brain.

It's a platform where there's a lot of techs and companies already using it for managing their routes and service logs and chemical history.

9:45

And when these two start talking to each other, that's where it becomes really powerful.

Now imagine this.

You're sitting at home with your coffee on Monday morning and before you even hit the road, you already know that Misses Jones pump hasn't run since Saturday.

Her chlorine is trending low.

10:02

There's a a possible flow issue.

You're not guessing.

You're walking in or or walking into a green pool.

You're walking into it like a hero with the fix ready to go.

And the best part is your customer doesn't even know that there was a problem.

All they know is that their pool is perfect every single week.

10:18

I mean, that's not just service.

That's the kind of proactive service that I think we all strive for.

And it's not only possible because they're real time remote monitoring and smart service software working together, it's because pool pros are driving those demands that these applications are starting to work together.

10:38

They want that kind of AI in their pocket.

Now, there is a another one that I don't know if you know about that's Cleary and Cleo.

It's a voice AI assistant.

And this is more like on the for folks in the pool renovation, pool construction into the business.

10:55

Now, I don't know what I don't know about you, but I've been there.

I mean, you're trying to tap into chlorine levels on your phone.

Your hands are wet, you're sweating bullets, the sun's bouncing off the screen and the app just freezes.

I ain't Cleo kind of skips all that.

You just talk, you tell Cleo you know chlorine is 2.5, pH is 7.3.

11:13

Add algicide and Cleo logs it.

It gets gets it all into the system.

I mean, you can even say schedule a return visit for Thursday or a send an invoice for today's service and I'll handle it.

Now that may sound like a gimmick until you actually start using it.

11:29

Then it feels like somebody took a clipboard, a phone, and your To Do List and kind of automated the whole thing while you were still brushing the walls of the pool.

It's not about being fancy, it's about getting your time back and logging faster, skipping the paperwork, keeping your focus where it belongs, in the pool and not on your screen.

11:50

Now there is another great software that we've been looking at quite closely.

It's actually a the first of its kind.

It's the AI based field service management software and it's called Zuper.

Now with that, you got the operational side of the business and Zuper is what I like to call an AI powered upgrade to your traditional field service management software.

12:13

So let's say you've got 4 texts and a busy Tuesday going.

I mean, well, most tools you got to manually assign it a job.

You got to figure out who's closest, who's available, who has the right parts in their truck.

And Zuper handles all of that with the AII mean you feed it your schedule, your routes, your job types, and it finds the most efficient way for you to run your business day-to-day.

12:35

And I can tell you, I mean, hey, this heater has three failures in two months.

Maybe replace it instead of band aiding it again.

I mean, that that's the kind of stuff that you get back from the software or you get 3 emergency calls in the same zip code before lunch.

I mean, maybe Zuper can automatically start shuffling your routes and reassigning text in real time.

12:55

This isn't just about dispatching though, I mean, because there's a lot of different software's that do that.

It's about thinking ahead.

And that's where Super has married the two parts, the AI, including tools that pool pros use every day as it has machine learning going on where it's like learning your operation where you lose time, where which customers are canceling and your attrition rates, which routes drain your gas.

13:19

And it helps you fix those kind of inefficiencies before they start eating up all your margins.

And it's about having a smarter it's like having a really smart office manager that works 24/7 and never forgets anything without having the overhead of having to hire that person, pay workman's comp, pay, insurance, all of those things that come with bringing in a really smart office manager.

13:41

The software does a lot of that.

Joe, you had me at never forgets anything, but can you talk on some of the hardware stuff and.

I like to talk about this because this is what appeals to me.

I'm I'm into gadgets and tech and, and, and the actual equipment that goes in the pool.

And this is the smart sensors and IOTIOT is a term that cool pro can be hearing everywhere.

14:02

I mean, that's Internet of Things.

All right.

So these aren't like replacements for text.

We're we're, we're looking at things that are like stand alone smart sensors devices.

Like there's one called ICO pool monitor, there's another one called Clear.

14:19

These aren't replacements for text.

They're kind of like the eyes and ears in the water when you are not there.

So they track things like pH, chlorine, temperature, ORP and more.

I mean, sometimes hourly.

So instead of walking into a mystery, you're walking in with a story.

14:35

You can literally see what happened between your visits, the heat wave, the bather load, if there was a rainstorm, and treat the pool based on trends and not guesswork.

So that means that you're not throwing chemicals in blindly.

14:50

You're not you're not doubling the chlorine just because you think it's been hot.

You got data there.

I mean, it's just giving you better decisions to to base your service on.

Plus if something goes sideways like a pump shuts off or chlorine and suddenly drops out, I mean these sensors alert you before the customer notices.

15:09

Talk to me about communication and reporting.

So now we got AI tools where they can take your log data, your readings, your before and after photos and then generate a clean branded service report for your customers.

We won't click.

It looks really professional.

15:25

It gets sent out automatically.

You can even set up pre written emails for things like hey, your filter pressure is rising.

We recommend a cleaning on your next visit or here's a photo of your pool after today's visit.

Thanks for trusting us.

I mean, the customer feels like they're getting taken care of.

15:42

You look more professional, and no one on your team had to sit down and type that stuff out by hand.

That's where like AI is bridging the gap a lot of companies.

So let me let me break it down why these tools matter.

I mean, you're cutting down on repetition.

There is less manual testing going on, less logging, fewer repetitive office tasks.

16:03

You prevent headaches like early alerts you get from the equipment and predictive analytics that stop emergencies before they start.

I know pool pros love to be more proactive than reactive in that regard.

So I mean that's a great way to earn customer trust.

16:20

It's a great way to have a differentiator in your pool service business that's different than everybody else out there.

I mean, this is where we see the real connection happening using ChatGPT.

That's probably every pool pros first experience with AI.

16:39

All right, but there's ways to even use the tools that you're using every day like GPT to optimize your pool service business.

So let's lean into that now.

I just want to zeroing on that tool because I mean, it's probably the most popularly used tool.

And I tell you that right now, if you run a pool service business, you should be using chat QPT like it's an unpaid intern who never gets tired, never calls in sick, and never forgets what you told it last week.

17:04

It's great for customer communication.

Let's start with something simple, all right?

You ever sit down to write a rate increase letter and end up just staring at the screen for 30 minutes because you don't know what to say without sounding and coming off like a jerk?

Or you you got a customer who wants to pause their service for some reason and you want to offer them some kind of retention incentive but you're not sure how how to exactly frame that.

17:28

You can open up ChatGPT and type in something like write a professional but friendly message letting my weekly pool service customer know that we're increasing our rates by $10 a month due to rising chemical costs.

Boom.

It's going to give you a complete draft and you can tweak that with a sentence or two and personalize it.

17:46

Hit send.

It's a 5 minute job and you can use it for appointment reminders, upsells.

All right.

So if there's things like heater inspections or filter cleanings that you want to try and upsell your customer on, it'll write those emails for you.

It'll write that the social media posts for you.

18:03

It'll write the the content for your website responses to common objections like why is my pool still cloudy?

I mean, that's great stuff like if you want to put together like a FAQ or a list of like common pool problems that customers have in your region, Chachi BT can help you handle a lot of that.

18:22

It handles things like holiday thank yous and customer check insurance and things like that.

Even even will provide your, your office staff with scripts for calling back a lead or handling the part of the sales cycle that you're not that comfortable with.

18:39

All you got to do is tell it the tone, the goal, and give it a little context.

And it's going to take that blank page problem right off your desk.

So there's other things that you can use it for, like operations and time savings, such as the emails.

I mean, you can tell it if like, let's say you want to train a new tech, you could say help me create a checklist for a new pool, service technicians, weekly maintenance tasks.

19:04

I want you to include water testing, brushing, equipment inspection, and it'll spit out a fully editable SOP, something that you could drop into a Google Doc and then hand to the rest of your team.

You can also have it create checklists for your spring openings or your winter Closings.

19:22

A step by step recovery plan for green pools.

Again, the FAQs for your website, you can have it do help you optimize your routes and tasks summaries for the day.

If you have that in an Excel format, you can upload that stuff to Chachi BT and it's smart enough to go through those type of documents.

19:44

One company I know used ChatGPT to write an entire training binder or something that would have taken like their staff like 40 hours.

They did it and and accomplished it in a few hours.

I know that there's a bunch of different pool companies out there that are using it for marketing and their social media.

20:02

Can we get a little deeper into that the social media stuff?

Because I'll tell you what, coming up with content on The Reg is a real mother father sometimes.

I mean, pool pros are really busy when it comes to servicing their customers, so where do you come come up with time to create the content?

20:20

And that's where Chachi BT can become your copywriter, you say?

Give me 5 Instagram post ideas for pool service company in Florida during or August, right?

Or help me write a short Facebook post educating home owners on why balancing pH is important in salt water pool.

20:39

And guess what?

It's going to give you full captions, hashtags, sometimes even photo ideas.

You can actually generate the photos for your social media posts directly into ChatGPT.

You can use it to write your Google Business profile updates.

You can use it to draft service descriptions on your website, create content for your e-mail lists, come up with headlines for postcards or door hangers.

21:02

I've even used it to write radio ads, scripts, voice overs, tag lines.

I've had a design truck wraps.

I mean, you can have it do all sorts of things that you never even thought about using ChatGPT for.

You could feed it what you want and it helps fill in the blanks.

21:19

So I touched on this for a second.

I mean, generating graphics and designs with AI, emails, reports, social media proposals, you can knock all that stuff out with ChatGPT.

But the other side of the coin is the visuals, because we all know I mean, words don't stop the scroll, pictures do.

21:36

And if you want people to take your company seriously, if you want your social media, your website, your branding, so look, make it look like you are the pro that you are.

You need a clean, modern, sharp visual.

And here's the thing, most pool service companies don't have a graphic designer on their payroll.

21:52

You're not hiring a branding agency for five grand.

You're not going to, you're not trying to get a clean load.

You just you want a clean logo, some solid Instagram graphics, a homepage that doesn't look like it was built in 2009.

That's where AI levels the playing field for a lot of pull pros.

22:09

You could use it for logo generation.

So there are 8 I tools like look up logo AI brand mark that they can generate dozens of logo concepts instantly.

You can tell it my company name is Aqua Pros.

We do premium weekly pull service in Scottsdale.

22:25

And I want to I want it to feel like a clean, modern, professional looking logo and boom, you get options.

You can tweak fonts, swap icons, change the color palette, download versions for social media, business cards, shirts, trucks, all in minutes using these kinds of tools.

22:41

And I'm not going to lie, it's going to beat a lot of the high end designers if you're paying top dollar.

But for 99% of pool pros, it's plenty.

I mean, you want to look way better than a clip art pool with a duck on it, This is the way to go.

Social media graphics AI tools like Canva, they have a a component called Magic Design.

23:00

Adobe's got a a new thing called Firefly.

There's a component called Vista Create where you can generate stunning graphics using just a sentence.

You could tell it create me an Instagram post for a pool service company reminding people to check their filter pressure.

23:16

Or design A summer themed flyer for a monthly cleaning promo with bold text and a water background.

It'll spit out the whole post already signed for for Instagram with space for your logo and a call to action.

If you want to turn it into a story slide, you just click a button.

23:32

If you need a matching Facebook post, that's another click.

I mean, that's where these AI tools are really becoming essential to pool service people who don't have a lot of people on staff and want to accomplish a lot of these tasks and don't have the marketing budget to throw into hiring a marketing agency or a a person to sit there in that seat all day doing this stuff.

23:54

It kind of levels of playing field for people that are working with a gorilla budget like that.

I mean, especially when it comes to like designing content for your website.

I mean, maybe your your current homepage has like that one blurry stock photo, all right, that everybody has of that guy cleaning a pool.

24:11

I mean, you've probably seen that photo everywhere.

And maybe like very, very limited description about your services and what it is that you do.

I mean, you could use a lot of these tools, even tools like durable bookmark, Canva websites to create a modern mobile friendly website in AI in minutes.

24:31

And you could say I'm a pool cleaning business in Tampa.

I want a website that highlights weekly service, includes a quote form and has a clean BG vibe.

All right.

It'll give you a homepage, layout, placeholder, text, image suggestions, a modern design and all that's baked in.

24:49

You plug in your info and you're good to go.

You don't like the stock photos, You can use your own where you can use the AI image generators.

I use them a lot.

There's programs like Leonardo Mid Journey is another popular one, replicates another popular one to create custom backyard visuals.

25:07

You can literally generate photo realistic pools and spas and patios, even trucks with your logo parked right in front of the house.

This is stuff that used to cost thousands of dollars and take weeks.

Now you can spin it out in a few seconds, a few minutes.

25:25

There's other stuff that you could do.

Really creating branded content at scale is what I like to do.

With AI, you don't have the time to create a different iteration for all these different platforms.

And now with AI, you don't have to.

That's where AI really excels.

25:41

You can build a, a branded comp template content template in a program like Creatify dot AI and that's a great one for I think everybody, every pool service pro should have a a creative 5 dot AI subscription.

25:56

That's a great way to generate a ton of content for your business, really professional without spending a ton of money.

It's a really nominal cost for what you get and you're able to spit out different ads and different videos for all sorts of different platforms.

26:12

So it'll create like the the stories, the reels, it'll create the Facebook posts, it'll create content for Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, you name it, anything that you can that you want to be on, you can create content with creative 5 dot AI.

26:31

And that's the the benefit of using a lot of these AI tools.

I think that's really where it comes into play for pool service pros.

I mean, I'm not going to talk to you about like robots and you know, or are they coming for our jobs and stuff like that.

That's not going to happen anytime soon.

26:47

I mean, we're talking about the next 1020 years of being in business.

I think the AI potential has more to improve our operations, improve the way we do business than it, it does in, in the fear factor of like, hey, is AI coming for our job?

27:03

Because I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

Joe Trusty, CEO of Pool Magazine and Pool marketing.com.

Thank you, Joe, for talking AI with us today.

Always a pleasure my friend.

27:26

There's like this argument about phosphates like phosphates aren't real, phosphates are real phosphates don't cause any problems phosphate cause.

So I know that from my experience they cause problems.

So, so you know, what's what's your take on that?

27:42

Why do people you know?

What's the argument there?

So, and it's funny that you said that because literally the first sentence in my outline is, are they a thing or are they not a thing?

So there is a huge debate, there's a huge argument and a lot of it, there's so many, there's like a, there's a bunch of different camps of, of, of schools of thought on phosphates, right?

28:06

So there's there's people that say it's not a problem, it's not a thing.

Back in the 80s when we did pools, we didn't test for it.

We never even we didn't treat for it was never a thing.

We didn't hear about it.

Faiths weren't a thing back in like, you know, back in the day in the 80s.

28:22

So it started to become a thing around the 90s.

And another argument is that you, so it goes from like it goes from the extreme of they're not real, they don't matter.

You don't have to test, you don't have to treat, you don't have to worry about it.

28:39

And then you got the other end of the argument where people will treat for 100 parts per billion, which it's not parts per million, they're measured in parts per billion.

So it'll you'll say PPB instead of PPM.

There are people who say that you can't have any phosphates at all.

28:57

You have to remove every single one and then they'll be like, oh, you have to remove them you'll get algae if you have a single phosphate in your pool.

Neither of those things are not to say that they're not true, but like they're both true at the same time.

29:13

You know what I mean?

So like I'm right in the middle and this is I don't know I'm quoting Rudy here.

I don't know if he got this from somewhere else, but it's they're not a problem until they're a problem.

And when I first started learning about phosphates, because I had been doing pools for several years and didn't know anything about it until I started working for the second company that I worked for, not you.

29:40

And then that's when I started, that's when they gave me a phosphate test kit.

And so that was the first time I, you know, started doing any of that.

And so at first I was like, Oh my God, I was one of those people that was like, you can't have any phosphates in your pool.

I have to, if I have a 200, I have to do a whole ass treatment and dump in a whole bottle and do the whole back to waste and all that stuff.

30:01

And so now I have changed my opinion on that.

And I pretty much agree with what Rudy says in that they're not a problem until they're a problem.

And that works for me.

So I just want to, you know, whatever we say on this podcast is for me, it's I'm trying to give you different ways of doing things.

30:24

I'm not necessarily telling you that what you're already doing is wrong and you need to change it and do it this way.

I don't want people to think I'm coming off that way.

I'm saying if it's working for you and your pool to remove every single last, you know, parts per billion of phosphate that there is and you want to do treatments like whatever, continue to do it that way, Please continue to do it.

30:44

If you ignore phosphates and you don't have algae problems and that works for you, then continue to ignore phosphates.

So that's, I just wanted to get that out.

Like if something's not working for you, you can try something different.

If it continues, if it works for you, continue to do with that.

Yeah.

31:00

And also like we're in South Florida.

So I mean it could be different in other areas.

Like exactly, I don't know.

Because I mean, everything at one pool in South Florida is exactly the same.

Exactly.

You know, depend.

There's so many different factors.

31:15

Exactly.

So yes, just because we are saying, you know, one thing, we're based in South Florida, we try to make it, you know, relevant to everybody, but that's where you have to like, I don't want to say you have to just know your own area and know what's going on inside your pool and all that stuff.

31:31

So like I said, so anyway, that's where that's where the debate is to answer your question is there's those three different, you know, groups of people.

And so the reality is, is that phosphates for real were not a thing back in, you know, the 80s and it started to come out in the 90s.

31:52

And it's because they started to use phosphates in municipal water treatments because the phosphates coat metals.

And so it prevents the, excuse me, it prevents the pipes from corrosion.

And so Florida for us in particular, and it depends on the area, but I've tested the phosphates coming out of the tap water at people's houses and I've had 1500 parts per billion.

32:19

I've had really high and I've also had zero.

So it, it just all depends going back to that again.

And that's also why for me, I don't worry about phosphates until it's a problem because it's coming out of my tap, you know, it's coming out of the hose super high.

32:37

So if I go into a phosphate treatment and I have to vacuum to waste and then fill the pool back up, because I just let out however many gallons of water now I'm replacing, I'm just putting phosphates right back in, you know?

Yeah.

And so to avoid all of that seems like very time consuming stuff that I don't need to do when I can just, you know, not only worry about the phosphates when I have an algae problem that will not go away.

33:06

And then I'm like, all right, let me check the phosphates.

Let me just do this.

Noticed last week in my pools a lot of them now it it has been raining a lot too but I've noticed that I will have all of my readings are perfect like pH, alkalinity stabilizer everything is good and I was 0 chlorine and I'm like what what is going on?

33:28

And you consistently come back.

So I didn't mean to interrupt.

I'm just trying to be like, yeah, because you and then you add chlorine.

You're like, I have no chlorine and everything else is good.

I've got stabilizer, I've got salt.

What else is the problem?

And, and, and you add chlorine and you come back and there's still no chlorine.

33:44

And I've even been like, let me just come on a different day.

Let me come a little bit sooner.

Still more, still no chlorine when there should be a level because I just added it a couple of days ago, you know, And so yes, at that point then I will be like, OK, maybe it's a phosphate thing.

34:01

Yep.

Matter of fact, I had a couple of them were in my salt couple of my salt system pools, you know and have chlorine generators on them.

And so I called my repair guy and I'm like, I don't know what is going on.

Like salt reading is at a good level, everything is fine, but I'm getting 0 chlorine.

34:19

There's getting algae in the pool like it's something wrong with their salt cell.

Like I pulled the salt cell out.

There's no scale on it there.

I looked at the like where he has the volts in the whatever you know you should look at how.

Amps.

The volts, the amps and the volts, that was fine.

34:36

I'm like, what the hell is going on?

And my repair guy who does not even do anything to do with chemicals or anything else, he goes it's probably phosphates or something.

Check that.

And I'm like, oh duh, I should know this.

Well, the that's funny because it always takes me somebody going well, have you checked the phosphates?

34:56

Yeah.

Let me do that.

You know, that's always like it always.

Yeah.

It always takes someone for me to like, be like, oh, yeah.

OK.

All right, yeah.

And these pools that mine in particular, they're like that one in particular I was talking about, they have their grandkids, the babies, babies.

35:12

They're always got their babies in the pool.

So I'm sure they're peeing in the pool.

You know, it's outdoor and they're always adding water to the pool.

Yeah, everything, everything is going in this pool so.

So let's get back to the basics again.

So what is a phosphate?

35:29

So it is a essentially it's food for algae.

Like people will argue that too, but consistently from sources that I trust, that is what the consensus is that it's a food for algae.

Algae comes and will eat the phosphates.

35:47

So you can it is and this comes from Rudy.

So you can control algae even though there's phosphates in the pool, you can control that algae with chlorine, obviously.

So if you have, and this, you know, goes back to what I was saying about the cyanic acid, you just need a higher chlorine level.

36:07

You absolutely can control algae and stop it from blooming even if you have very high phosphates.

Now that's where you get into like, is the chlorine level too high?

And so that's, you know.

People swimming in this pool.

Exactly.

Like I don't want a super high reading if I got all these babies swimming in.

36:25

Exactly.

OK.

And so that's when we're saying like, you know, you can maintain it, you can have high enough chlorine.

Obviously you don't want to have it beyond the safe level.

So there's, you know, that's always a thing.

Now, did you know that there are two kinds?

36:41

Well, I don't know if there's only two, There's more than one kind of phosphate.

So we have just like, just like witches, we have good phosphates and we have bad phosphates.

And so basically, like I said, there's, there's several different types.

And I'm not going to get into like the whole science of all of that.

36:56

But you have organic phosphates and you have orthophosphates.

So organic phosphates are the things that we use to that are added to stain removers and metal, metal removers, things like that.

37:12

There's phosphoric acid in those things and that is because it acts as a chelating agent and that chelating agents prevent that thing from precipitating out of the water, out of solution and like sticking to the surface.

37:31

There's unfortunately our test kits do not differentiate between these two.

So when you test for phosphates, it's not going to tell you whether or not it's the good phosphate or if it's the bad phosphate.

So organic phosphates are easily oxidized over time by chlorine and This is why I was saying that you can have no algae and have high phosphates.

37:54

When organic phosphates are oxidized by the chlorine, the result is orthophosphate and that is the nutrient for algae.

So algae doesn't use organic phosphates.

The orthophosphate is the food for the algae.

38:13

Wait, organic.

OK.

The organic phosphates are the things that are used in metal removers, stain treatments, certain brands of salt.

Those are the good phosphates because that's what acts as the chelating agent for staining.

38:30

But takes, you know, the stain the the metal ions that take or I think ions are the right word.

I might be getting too technical for myself, but it surrounds the chelating agent.

The phosphates surround whatever the stain is and prevent it from sticking to the surface.

38:48

It prevents it from coming out of solution of the Watt.

OK, so so that's the difference.

OK, so but organic stuff that gets in your pool, like leaves when people are peeing in the pool, you know, just body lotions, body oils, whatever, all that causes phosphates as well.

39:10

Right.

And then when that becomes oxidized by the chlorine, then you have the orthophosphate, OK.

And then that's the food for algae.

OK.

Kind of like you know how chloramines are a are a byproduct of the chlorine mixing with you get orthophosphates from organic phosphates that as the way that I understand it anyway, from the stuff that I just read.

39:32

And then so let's see.

OK, so that's why like I said a second ago, so, so sources of phosphates, right?

Sources of phosphates, like you said, leaves, debris, grow source water because they add it in the city water.

39:48

Laundry detergents have phosphates, soaps, you know, stuff like that.

Lotions, sun, water.

Remover.

The metal removers, the stain treatments, those will add phosphates.

Sweat, urine, skin cells, cosmetic.

40:10

Dogs and ducks for sure.

And so those are organic phosphates and as I said, those are those that acts as a chelating agent, the ones that are in stain removers, not the ones that come from ducks.

OK.

Fun fact, we have phosphate mines in Florida.

Yes, we do.

40:25

You can find lots of good shark's teeth there.

Don't tell anybody.

You can find what.

Shark's teeth.

Really, it's illegal.

You can't go there.

You can't go there.

But picked out by the popo, but may not have found some shark's teeth.

Well, we do not condone trespassing on private property.

40:44

But yes, there are phosphate mines in Florida, which I think you know, it's just in the air.

I think it takes in the air absolutely is so and then we get another place that happens is a lot of golf courses which are in Florida and if you're in a golf course, if you're on a if your pools are on a golf course, and this is for anywhere in the country.

41:05

The golf courses use, you know, treatments for the grass and the turf and the landscaping in the ornamentals, which are the flowers and the trees and stuff.

And a lot of that is phosphate heavy treatments and the runoff when it rains or the sprinklers will.

41:22

Because it's got water.

So that runs into the pool because that's just what water does.

So it might not necessarily come from the rain itself, but the rain is causing all of that fertilizer and all of that food for the lawns and stuff.

41:41

What do they?

I don't know what they call.

I thought there was a term for it, but whatever.

So yeah, that's where it can all come from.

And as I said, our test kits don't tell you if it's, you know, where it what it is, which one it is and whatever.

It just indicates the presence of it.

41:59

OK.

And then so for salt pools, now this is where it's important because as I said about phosphates coating metals.

And so that's why it's used in certain city waters, certain cities water.

42:14

It's also going to coat the metal plates in the salt cells.

And so that's why when you called your your guy and he was like, oh, phosphates, because that's part of what causes them to not function properly because it's coated with the phosphates now, it's not going to produce enough chlorine it.

42:35

Gets coated with it.

Yes, I think so.

Like I said, phosphates are used to coat the metal pipes.

I gotcha.

Oh God, that makes no sense.

Yes.

So it's going to coat the metal blades inside the salt cell.

OK.

42:51

And then that's going to not only affect the chlorine production, so it's not going to be able to make enough chlorine, it's also going to like ruin the metal because it's going to corrode it eventually underneath or whatever happens to it.

You know, again, don't don't need to get too scientific for my own good here, but it shortens the life of the cell because it's being coded.

43:12

And that's also side note.

That is the reason why they say that sulfuric acid is not good for salt pools.

Sorry, sorry, I just had somebody tell me to use.

I'm talking while you're messing with that.

I just had somebody Jandy warranty guy told me to use sulfuric acid in it instead of muriatic acid.

43:32

Far be it from me to go against what a manufacturer says, but I think that he might be misinformed because, or at least from what I've been told by other chemical people, that sulfuric acid contains sulfates and sulfates are bad for salt pools because for the same reason, it coats the cell and then shortens the life of the cell.

43:58

OK, now I'm going to have to research this.

Yes, so I it's anything that leaves behind sulfates is bad.

So the sulfuric acid is not good to use in salt.

They say it's, you know, because of the less fuming.

That's the only reason that it's recommended.

44:13

I don't know why they would recommend it for a salt pool.

Did he tell you?

Why?

Because it was all my chemical readings were good.

They were all in range, but I was getting scale on the cell, so he said use sulfuric acid.

That's weird to me.

44:29

You're getting scale on.

Is that why we are you talking about like getting flakes in the pool?

No, they weren't in the pool.

They would just get on the cell.

They weren't going into the pool.

So that's like magnesium usually, that's usually magnesium hydroxide because so if you, you, so you have to think that the salt cell works by using electrolysis.

44:49

So it sends a low voltage through those blades and then everything that passes through is subject to that electrolysis.

So not just the chloride, not just or not not just the salt because that's what becomes chlorine, but also like the water itself is subject is so that's going to be go through that process.

45:11

And so you get hydroxides from that and that's what precipitates out.

And so that's why you have that build up on the cell.

And that's usually because of either magnesium or if it's not being sent out into the pool, then it's just like gunking up in the cell.

45:32

So that's when you need to keep.

That's what we talked about before.

Keeping everything I said to prevent the flakes from getting into the pool is the same for preventing that scale build up on the cell.

Well, he told me to use sulfuric acid.

So I have been doing what you know how we talk about not fighting the pH.

45:53

That's last week's episode.

But I also does have high phosphate so I have been using a little squirt of phosphate remover in it every single week.

Switch back to me or addict.

No, I haven't even tried the sulfur.

He just told me this.

I haven't even.

Yeah.

Don't.

I wouldn't.

I would advise against that.

46:09

Me, I would, yeah, that's my advice.

Like I said, I don't mean to go against a manufacturer, so listen to them.

But for you, me and you, I would say don't switch.

OK, So anyway, back to the phosphates.

So that's why they are bad for salt cells, extremely bad for salt cells like I said, because of those reasons.

46:30

And so also what happens is salt cells will not produce enough chlorine to keep up with the phosphate level because when the builders size the cells, they they don't usually take into account for phosphates, for one.

46:46

And then they also don't take into account like, you know, rain and people using the pool.

And that's why salt cells are typically undersized is because they are just like it's the volume of the water, but they're not taking into account all of the other stuff that goes into water.

47:04

Yeah.

So anyway.

But yeah, so they don't, they, they're not sized with phosphates in mind.

So a lot of them can't keep up with phosphate levels in addition to the phosphates coating the cell and slowing down the production.

So that's why you want to keep 0 parts per billion and a salt as much as you can as much as possible.

47:24

Now I guess we can go into like adding phosphate remover because that's so much like the next, the next little natural course of conversation.

So you can use a couple two different things you can use.

And the first thing is obviously is phosphate remover and there are lots and lots of different brands.

47:46

But This is why I like to stress to people about the importance of ingredients and chemical names because people will be like, oh, you should be using this phosphate remover.

It's so much better than this one or whatever.

And they're all the same ingredient.

48:01

So it's just because you're using one brand that's more expensive or whatever it's they all have the same ingredient, which is lanthanum chloride, and that is a heavy metal.

So you're actually adding a metal to remove the phosphates and then you got to do a metal treatment.

48:19

Metal treatment after that.

No, you don't.

I'm just, I'm just kidding.

You don't have to do metal treatment.

That's too complicated.

That's a Rudy.

That's a Rudy topic anyway, Lance.

We can handle it.

We'll just get Rudy on here.

48:35

We'll hope he'll be our guest next week.

We could we could ask him, Rudy.

So lanthanum chloride, you add that to the pool and very there's a whole thing, a scientific process and whatever and it causes it to drop, it precipitates out.

And then you have to, you have a bunch of stuff at the bottom of the pool that you have to vacuum to waste.

48:56

And then you also have to clean the filter because it all gets.

The filter totally clogs it up and your filter is pretty much shot and you got to clean it for sure.

Pretty much toast.

You've got to definitely clean it, if not replace it.

I mean, sometimes it's so much easier to just replace them because they do get just disgusting.

49:17

OK, so I think that this is one of my friends does this.

He puts a squirt of phosphate remover and every single pool that he goes to every single week, which it's not much and he charges for it what you should.

So he doesn't have problems like that.

49:33

So, you know, I it just depends like sometimes I do that, sometimes I don't, I need to get back in the habit of doing it because I really and truly have noticed a lot of phosphates this past week.

So as long as you're charging for it, you know, just charge for it.

49:49

Yeah, So does he listen to talking pools?

Because.

Yes, every once in a while.

That's something that Rudy and I talked about when me and Rudy were doing the show together.

So that's another thing I was going to say for anybody.

There's me and Rudy have a bunch of episodes on it.

You just have to scroll back a while.

50:05

I don't know exactly what their titles are anything.

You just have to look for it.

And then also Rudy has done a couple episodes by himself on it.

So yeah, that's one of the things that Rudy and I talked about was just adding a couple oz every week.

And Rudy's suggest Rudy was the one who suggested putting it in a squirt bottle.

50:24

In a squirt bottle.

Like fantastic dish soap.

Yeah, like a dish soap bottle.

I think a dish.

Soap bottle, a ketchup bottle.

Somebody said they put it in a spray bottle and just not like a mist, but like a, you know.

Well, the brand that I use, when you take the lid off, there's like that little, you know, silver piece that's covered.

50:44

Like a foil thing?

I just jam.

I just a hole in one little poke a hole in it and I just squirt it out-of-the-box.

Yeah, any any way you have the measurements on the bottle?

Yeah, but I just do a little squirt, excuse me when I do it.

There is measurements, but also if you're doing it every week like that, it doesn't clog the filter.

51:03

I mean, it will eventually.

So eventually you're going to have to clean it, but you're going to clean it anyways, eventually.

Yeah.

And so if.

You one treatment today, you're going to clean.

Come back tomorrow and clean the filter.

You don't have to do that if you just keep up with it every single week.

Yes.

51:19

And so I yeah, that was what I was getting too.

So yeah, just put adding a couple of Oz.

And it doesn't cause a significant amount of fallout.

So you don't.

You don't have to go vacuum to waste.

No, you don't.

Which helps with the people like us who have high phosphates in the fill water.

51:39

So you're not just adding the phosphates right back in as soon as you start vacuuming to waste, then you have to add water.

So that is the perfect solution in my opinion, to pretty much, you know, having to do a whole treatment because really, who wants to go back to a pool the very next day after you were just there?

52:00

And then you have to clean the filter first because every time I've ever done a big treatment, the filter barely works.

When you get back there the next day, it's barely moving the water.

So everything is cloudy.

Still you have to clean the filter first, because you cannot vacuum with it not flowing, you know, with it clogged.

52:19

And how do?

You have to vacuum and then you have to clean an.

Actual hose?

Like an actual vacuum hose in a vacuum head?

You got to actually who owns one of those anymore?

Well, there's a whole company that you know, they still do that, but.

52:34

All right, well, I do own one, but I don't think I've ever used.

It but that's what I'm saying.

But that's what I'm saying is like, why break all of that equipment out?

Why?

And if you're already doing it fine, if you like doing it fine.

But for me, I prefer the method of just adding maybe the Max for six oz.

52:52

The Max is is 1 addition for me and then like you said it doesn't clog up the filter.

You don't have to vacuum anything to waste.

You do eventually have to clean the filter.

We're not saying because yes, it is still going to clog up the filter, it just won't be as fast and you don't.

53:08

Have to come back.

The very next day and it's not going to make the water cloudy either.

No, no, no, Speaking of that, OK, I was good.

OK, really quick, I got to ask this question.

First of all, my thought to that is like, I am A1 Puller.

I have pools in one town.

53:24

You know, all my pools on this day is in one town.

All my pools on Tuesday is this town.

All my pools on Wednesday is this town.

I don't have time to go back to those pools.

If I do your pool that week, it's getting done.

I'm doing a good job and nobody calls me because I'm not going back because I don't have time to go from this town to that town.

53:42

OK, here's a question.

Here's a little I don't know answer this question.

OK.

I'm so so last week when I was adding Foster Remembers to my pools that I knew needed it, which I did not test for, but I knew they needed it so I what when it turns cloudy?

54:00

That is what I've always heard.

I didn't think so, but I just want to make sure.

Why?

What happened?

Did you add some pools and it didn't get?

Cloudy, yeah, some don't, some do.

So what is that?

What's the cloudiness?

I am so glad that you asked that question because I was going to bring it up.

54:18

So this is my favorite, my favorite myth to debunk.

I knew this was a myth, but I just was like, hold on, I ordered that thing you told me to order.

It'll be here tomorrow.

So next week I won't be doing this.

All right?

My gosh, I knew this had to be a myth because I and also, honestly, some phosphate removers I've noticed will make it cloudy every single time.

54:43

And some phosphate removers, if you use a different one, a different brand, don't make it cloudy at all.

OK, maybe the reason?

Here's the thing.

Here's the thing.

This is my favorite thing because people get so mad, all right?

And this is all like, OK, let's start with this.

55:01

So as I already mentioned, all phosphate removers are lanthanum chloride.

Now, just like with every chemical and every chemical manufacturer, and this goes for literally everything, not just pool chemicals, each brand has their own formula.

55:19

SO1 brand could have a a certain amount of lanthanum chloride and then some other ingredients.

And then that all depends on the brand.

So different percentages, different inert ingredients, you know, different things are added to the different products.

55:36

So what happens now?

This is one of the one of the biggest things that makes me real angry and this is one of the things that's debated.

There's a certain chemical manufacturer, which I have already talked about, which they are fine, I have no problem with them.

55:55

But there's a certain way that they promote testing for phosphates, which I completely, 100% disagree with, and here's why.

Lanthanum chloride, and I was told this by a phosphate remover manufacturer.

56:13

I was told, not by the one that, you know, I was by a different one.

I'm not going to name anybody.

I was told by a chemical manufacturer of phosphate remover that the lanthanum chloride is reacting.

It gets cloudy.

56:28

It's reacting to not necessarily the phosphates, but carbonates in the water, carbonates meaning bicarb, sodium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate.

So if you have calcium in the water, if you use bicarb, and there's a couple other things that I'm forgetting, but calcium carbonate, but sodium bicarbonate being the two things that are obviously going to be present because you have an alkalinity and a calcium level.

56:55

So depending on that level, that's what is making the water cloudy.

Higher the carbonate level, the more cloudy you're going to see.

Correct.

OK, cool, because all my of my alkalinities are up where they should be.

57:11

Right.

And I would imagine that stabilizer, I imagine that stabilizer would have some sort of effect.

Now I'm just speculating here.

I I don't have any scientific proof of this, but I would imagine that since cyanurates we discussed in the last episode are a part of the total alkalinity reading, I would imagine that it that the stabilizer level would also have a slight effect on the on the reaction.

57:39

Makes sense.

Now what happened for me was that I tested a pool.

I was expecting there to be a phosphate level and so I had lugged all my stuff, my, you know, riptide.

I threw a bottle of phosphate remover in the riptide and I was planning on adding it to the pool and I tested the water and I had 0 phosphates show up on that test.

58:01

Zero.

It was not a hundred.

It wasn't like a slight, you know, whatever.

It was a clear zero.

And I decided I was going to throw in the phosphate remover anyway, just because it was only a few oz and I had already brought it and I was like, I need to use it anyway.

And so I just was like, how am I get, How else am I going to get rid of this?

58:19

I'm just going to use it.

And it didn't cloud up.

And so I was like, I because I had thought, always thought it is reacting to the phosphates and the more cloudy, the cloudier it is.

Oh, you must have had a really high phosphate level.

Well, no, because I had zero and it still clouded up.

58:35

And so that's why it's cloudy, because it's reacting to either the calcium or the bicarb or the whatever it is, the carbonates.

And now that's why.

This is a different.

Yes, this is what the chemical manufacturer told me.

58:51

And then there's a different chemical manufacturer that says, and This is why people get all upset and want to argue and they say it literally says in their blog because I had to go and look for it because people kept mentioning it to me.

And I was like, that doesn't make any sense.

And this, that's my opinion.

But the article literally says we do the cap test.

59:10

Here's a good way to test, do the cap test.

And it says dump in a cap full.

And if you see a cloudy reaction, you probably have phosphates and go ahead and do the treatment.

And then the very next sentence says, is this, what does it say?

I should have pulled it up.

So it says, it says you won't be, it's going to be hard to find, but it says something to the effect of this.

59:33

A scientific way to test, no, But is it a reliable way to test?

Yes.

And I 100% disagree with that statement.

And anyone who wants to disagree with me on that, why is the chemical manufacturer telling you to just dump in a little bit of chemical and see a reaction and then just dump in more?

59:51

Because they want you to buy more chemical.

Duh.

You're getting a little.

We need to get, we need to like, get the real, the real scoop on this.

That is the real scoop I'm not getting anyway.

I'm just, that's my opinion and I am allowed to state my opinion is that's the reason they that's the reason that they dump in a little bit of chemical, because they want you to use their chemical.

1:00:15

Because if you dump in a little bit and see a cloudy reaction and, and you're going to go, oh, I need to do a phosphate treatment, you're going to use more of their chemical.

Interesting.

That's kind of.

But.

Like I said.

I mean, it's, it is what it is.

1:00:30

That's why, like I said, I'm not, I'm not trying to throw shade at them because whatever, but that's why I'm pointing out that I was told by a different manufacturer that that's why you see the cloudy reaction is because of the carbonates in the water.

1:00:47

And I read that in other places.

OK, because I was going to say, maybe these two chemical companies are at war with each other and they're just this one says this, one says this.

We need to know the truth here.

That is, I mean, that's what happens.

1:01:04

So feel free if anybody wants to debate me on that one.

But not the fact that they the fact that they say, is it scientific?

No, you know what I'm saying?

Like that's what it says, is it scientific?

No.

Is it reliable?

And then they answer that question with yes, it's reliable, but I say no because of my test result that I got where I had 0 phosphates.

1:01:28

So this.

Is where all the confusion comes from.

Then this is what the confusion is on why it gets cloudy and why it doesn't get cloudy.

Yes.

And I also think that that comes from the older pool guys that, you know, like I said, phosphate remover wasn't really a thing up until the 90s.

1:01:45

And you know that we didn't really have Internet so much and there wasn't you couldn't Google things and, you know, people in certain areas.

And even still to this day, there are pool guys in Florida here that don't go on the Internet and don't talk to other pool guys and don't talk to other people in different areas.

1:02:04

And so they all just tell each other the same thing and they go and they see something and they go.

That must mean this instead of.

That makes sense because this is this is a couple things.

So I've had people go, oh, you need to clean my filter every four weeks.

1:02:20

No, you don't.

If you read the manufacturer's little card that comes in the box when you buy a cartridge, it says every three months is good.

And of course everything depends on the size of the pool, the size of the cartridge, the size of this, the size of that, blah, blah, blah.

1:02:35

It all depends.

So it's not every four weeks.

You do not have to clean the filter according to this, but obviously you know you're going to use common sense.

But it's the same with that though with the chemicals as well, which I lost my train of thought.

I was going to say, where are you going like this?

1:02:51

About them saying like about them say one company says it the cloudiness is means it's phosphates and the other company says no, it's the same thing like when you get customers that go I have a salt system.

I don't have chloride in my pool.

Yes, you do.

I have chloride in your pool.

1:03:08

Well, I mean it's.

Been about along those lines.

The thing about the two different companies saying two different things for me, it's the one company says that's not a thing and you don't need to use more of my product.

You can just, you know what I'm saying.

1:03:24

And the other one is saying, I'll just throw some in and then, you know, base your treatment on that.

That's using more of your product.

And I get, you know, so it's the one company said use more just by, you know, testing it this way.

And it's not a scientific test, but it's OK.

And the other company decided to explain it to me and say, no, this is what's actually happening.

1:03:44

I have more faith in the one that wasn't telling me to use more of their stuff.

My and that's what I was going to say too, is I was going to point out how you had said earlier like you don't even really test.

I don't either.

I really don't even I don't.

1:04:01

I mean, I do sometimes just to see if I'm curious, but I will just throw in some phosphate remover a couple like I said, Max 6 oz.

So it's not clog, it's not hurting anything.

It's not clogging me, my filter, it's not causing me to have to go back.

1:04:16

And honestly, even if I don't have algae and I feel like I'm not holding a chlorine level for whatever reason, I'll just be like, you know what, I guess she wants some phosphate remover today and she gets some phosphate remover and it seems like everything is fine the next week.

1:04:31

So I'm, I'm a fan of using it.

I am not a fan of using a whole lot of it and like, you know, so let you know, let's go back to like the Max level according to and I know this isn't in the CPO book, but the Max recommended level according to the industry is 100 parts per billion.

1:04:55

So like, for example, if you happen to ask a question on Facebook and Wayne come chimes in, he'll be like everything under 100 parts per billion has to go.

You have to keep a zero level Booty says in his algae book that he I got some of this information from and on his blog and in his classes and stuff like that he'll say 500 is the Max and so.

1:05:19

I've heard 500. 500 is something that Rudy has said and others have said.

There's actually a blog, an article on Rudy's website where he says he doesn't say, you know, 3000 is the Max, but he mentions that you can have a level of up to 3000 and still not have any problems in the pool, which I have experienced myself.

1:05:39

So me personally, I don't, I don't, I don't like go by a Max level to where I'm like, I have to get rid of unless it's a salt pool.

Obviously, as I mentioned the reasons why.

But if I test the pool for whatever reason and you know, like I said, there's no Max level that I draw the line at.

1:06:01

I go by if I'm having a problem in this pool and if I need to take care of the problem by removing the phosphates.

Absolutely.

So the second, that was kind of like a long discussion on phosphate remover.

But the second way to do it, if you don't want to use lanthanum chloride or phosphate removers, you can use aluminum sulfate or alum as some people will just shorten it down to and that is aluminum sulfate is, is the ingredient that's in most things that are labeled flock.

1:06:34

It's not always it's some other type of like aluminum usually.

But and then as I was saying, sulfate, you don't really want to use this in salt pools either, unless you can like take bypass the cell somehow.

But aluminum sulfate will reduce the phosphates, but you're going to have to do a whole vacuum to waste.

1:06:51

It's going to drop everything to the floor.

With aluminum sulfate, you have to bypass the filter media.

So if you have a cartridge, you have to take it out.

If you have a sand filter, you have to put it in like recirculate, I think.

And then bless your heart if you have Ade filter to get rid of all the powder and then recharge it after that.

1:07:09

So the it's either either way, it's a it's a whole process and alum.

I don't think you can just like throw in a little bit and then move on.

I don't think you could do that with alum.

You have to like make sure you vacuum it out.

Whichever chemical you choose to use, it's going to be a process either way.

1:07:28

I was saying that I don't think you can use, I don't think you can do like small amounts of aluminum sulfate or of like flock.

I don't think you can just do a couple of Oz of flock and and walk away and be done.

I don't think it works that way.

I've not used it enough to know specifically like a good answer for that.

1:07:44

I would say no, but with aluminum with phosphate remover, you can, you can just squirt in some and then walk away.

All of these things are just to kind of explain what's happening with phosphates and you can choose how to treat them yourself.

And then, you know, just please be aware that the clouding up of the phosphate remover does not mean that there's phosphates in the water.

1:08:08

Do you know what?

I had someone tell me and he was like very aggressive about it.

He was.

And it was like a comment that I saw on someone else's post.

It wasn't like anything directed towards me, but he commented and he said, oh, believe it or not, because I think that the conversation was about, you know, clouding up or whatever.

1:08:26

And he's like, believe it or not, chlorine has phosphates in it.

Chlorine has high phosphate.

I was like, what?

And so I asked him and he's like, oh, if you pour phosphate remover right into where you poured the chlorine, it clouds up a lot.

1:08:42

Here.

We go and I'm like, Sir, that is not how it works.

And so to satisfy that argument, I took liquid chlorine and I tested it for phosphates.

And guess what?

And then?

Zero.

And I also confirmed with Mr. Wayne does high chlorine bleach out a phosphate test and guess what he said no, it does not.

1:09:07

And also I diluted the chlorine as well.

I didn't do straight chlorine.

I diluted it a bit.

And you deleted it with water that did not have phosphates in it.

Of course I did.

I I used a distilled bottled water because I am very scientific.

Yes, you are.

1:09:24

Yeah.

I want to do an actual like video, like an experiment.

Like I want to put a video out like of because as I said, metal removers have phosphates in them, right?

So you could technically take phosphate removed or metal remover, add it to like distilled water because it has no phosphates or anything like that in it.

1:09:45

Essentially establish a phosphate level and not have any carbonates in that water because there's no calcium, there's no salt, there's no, you know, sodium bicarbon there.

And it wouldn't, you could put the phosphate remover in there and it wouldn't cloud up.

1:10:01

You know, as a, as a little science experiment.

You weren't paying attention to anything I said.

Could see it on your face.

You just, you have no idea what the hell I just.

Said I don't, I'm sorry you don't, but it sounds like a good science experiment, so go ahead, do it.

1:10:17

Or leave it at that.

OK.

Jerk.

So, all right, Well, see you guys next Tuesday.

That's all I have.

Listen in and your spiel about how you know they should text us.

Mail us.

Thanks for listening.

Do all the things she just said I should tell you to do.

1:10:34

Call us at home.

Don't do that.

Oh my God. e-mail us.

Let's see.

What's my e-mail?

andrea.talkingpools@gmail.com. rudyistalkingpools@gmail.com.

We all have social medias.

1:10:50

There's talking pools, social media all over the place.

There's me.

It's my name.

That's it, thanks to our.

Well, that's whose problem is that it's.

Your problem?

Nobody gave me one.

Nobody gave me one.

Either I had to make it myself.

You just go to Gmail like you made the one for yourself and like the one you made for your business.

1:11:10

I can't do that.

I got too much and.

You go to.

Gmail and you.

Never mind, don't ever e-mail me.

Just e-mail Andrea and I tell her that crap.

I knew it.

You don't even want that.

All right, well, that's it.

Yep.

Let us know if you have.

Yes, and thanks, thank you to our sponsor Revved Up Apparel.

1:11:25

Thanks to everybody over there.

We should be getting our shirts soon because even though we took forever to announce it like selected the winner and the shirts are in production.

So you'll see us wearing those.

And as I mentioned last week, keep an eye out for more contests.

1:11:44

And that's it.

Well, that's that's all I got.

Now I'm saying goodbye for reals.

All right, have a good week everybody, and see you next Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday.

Bye.

1:12:07

I just wanted to take a minute to say thank you for listening today.

I'm hoping you enjoyed the episode as much as we enjoyed putting it together for you.

Listen, it's been a couple of wacky, crazy, screwed up years from pandemic to Pool Mageddon.

I just want you to know that we are all in this together.

1:12:23

If there's anything that we can do for you, send me an e-mail at talkingpools@gmail.com.

Again, that's talkingpools@gmail.com.

We're here.

This is your podcast.

We are the pool people's podcast of the pool people for the pool people by the pool people's podcast asked This one is about you.

1:12:39

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