Fueling Growth with Shannon Wilson, Enzymes, CyA Secrets

In this episode of the Talking Pools podcast, Rudy interviews Shannon Wilson, a top mentor in the pool care industry. They discuss the importance of mentorship, safety, and training in pool management, as well as the role of enzymes in maintaining pool clarity. Shannon shares insights on accountability, learning from mistakes, and the significance of chemical knowledge in pool care. The conversation highlights the challenges of leadership and the impact of mentorship on professional development, concluding with valuable lessons and best practices for aspiring pool professionals.

takeaways

• Mentorship is crucial for growth in the pool industry.
• Enzymes play a significant role in maintaining pool clarity.
• Safety training is essential for pool management.
• Consistency and accountability are key in leadership.
• Learning from mistakes is part of the growth process.
• Effective communication can resolve employee challenges.
• Understanding pool chemistry is vital for maintenance.
• Reading product labels can prevent costly mistakes.
• Good mentorship can come from unexpected sources.
• Asking questions fosters a learning environment.

Sound Bites

• "You have to document everything."
• "Ask questions to spark learning."
• "Read the directions on the label."

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to Mentorship in the Pool Industry

02:27
The Role of Enzymes in Pool Maintenance

05:24
Safety and Training in Pool Management

08:23
Understanding Cyanuric Acid and Its Impact

11:21
The Importance of Consistency in Mentorship

14:11
Learning Through Failure and Experience

17:04
Chemical Safety and Handling in Pool Care

20:16
Innovations in Pool Chemistry and Maintenance

25:36
Reflecting on Early Industry Experiences

27:30
Learning from Mistakes and Accountability

30:41
Difficult Conversations and Leadership Challenges

33:22
Mentoring and Employee Development

37:52
Leadership Styles and Personal Growth

42:19
Teaching Moments and Light Bulb Moments

45:53
Lessons Learned from Pool Management

AquaStar Pool Products
The Global Leader in Safety, Dependability, & Innovation in Pool Technology.

POOL MAGAZINE
Pool Magazine is leading up to the minute news source for Swimming Pool News and Pool Features. Ou

BLUERAY XL
The real mineral purifier! Reduce your pool maintenance costs & efforts by 50%

Jack's Magic
If you know Jack's you'd have no stains!

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00.234)
Hey everybody, this is Rudy Stankiewicz and guess what? It is Friday. This is the Talking Pools podcast. And yeah, we got a show for you. I got another one of the top 10 mentors with us. Shannon Wilson out of HH Hunt. He's here with us today and we're gonna dig deep into his mind and see his thoughts on people and how he helps elevate them to the next level.

And that's what we're going to talk about today. Shannon, welcome to the show. Absolute pleasure. What is HH Hunt? First, let's get that out of the way.

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:36.546)
Well, HH RUNS has multiple things, so build homes and we also build communities.

swimming pools that you maintain.

I do all our CPO classes within the footprint of our company, which goes from Maryland all the down to Georgia. And, and when we have issues or somebody needs to be trained, I'll go down and check it out, see what the issues are, or people can even call me up, welcome through issues or advice, stuff like that.

Local pool service companies, they go through your CPO certification, correct?

That is correct. So local pool companies and also to Virginia apartment association. I do their widespread. So anywhere from Virginia Beach have roads all the way through through Charlottesville, Blacksburg, where everyone know. So that's a big footprint right there as well.

Speaker 1 (01:23.894)
If mentorship were a pool chemical, chlorine, stabilizer, algaecide, whatever, what chemical would it be for you and why would that analogy fit your own experience guiding people through pool care?

Speaker 2 (01:46.668)
you

Speaker 1 (01:53.876)
they're livin' the dream!

Speaker 1 (02:13.294)
nervous. Never ordered from this company before, but they make the championship belts for BWE, UFC, and a few other places. Alright, okay. Packaged well, that's for sure. wow, there's some meat in this. This is...

you

Speaker 1 (02:30.124)
You're gonna see it before I get an open this way. Look at that talking pools podcast, cool industry mentor award 2025. This is bad ass. This is cool. Holy shit. Check it out. Look, there's sponsor Blu ray XL this site talking pools podcast logo. This is super cool. Check it out. Talking pools podcast.

Cool Industry Mentor Award 2025. This is the championship belt. Great. Check this out. Wow. That is super cool. I love it. One of our mentors, one of the top 10, will get this belt. In November, I will be at somebody's first thing in the morning, banging on the door, looking for a cup of coffee and

We'll be presenting somebody with this award. How cool is that? Look at that. This is befitting of a mentor of the year. I'm really excited. This is awesome. I'm glad I went with them. Great job, WildcatBeltz. Love it. Look at that. Check it out. Let me make sure you guys have seen this whole thing. This is just so cool. Mentorship, it is the greatest role you can assume in this industry. To help others, to help this industry.

Be a mentor. Look at that. So cool. Wow. I it. I love it. am stoked. Cool.

I love it, love it, love it.

Speaker 2 (04:00.782)
Blu-ray XL is the power of minerals working for you. Reduce your overall chemical costs and labor up to 50 % guaranteed. Whether you have 20 accounts or 20,000, Blu-ray XL's direct pricing and free shipping to the pool trade have you covered. Improving pool professionals' profit and work-life balance is what they do. Blu-ray XL, the real mineral purifier. Visit them at blu-rayxl.com.

Speaker 2 (04:30.488)
Blu-ray all day

Speaker 1 (04:36.43)
The Mobile Water Link Spin Touch allows pool and spa professionals the ability to test water in the field. A patented Water Link Spin Reagent Disc is used with the innovative photometer to measure 10 different tests in just 60 seconds. That's right, just 60 seconds and you'll have results displayed simultaneously on the photometer's touchscreen. That's not all. You also have the ability to send the data through Bluetooth into a smartphone or a tablet device. The photometer can measure free chlorine.

Bromine, total chlorine, combined chlorine, pH, alkalinity, hardness, cyanuric acid, copper, iron, phosphate, borate, biguanide, biguanide shock, and salt. The water analysis can be proactive since they are able to measure all of these important tests and recommend correct procedures to fix their water chemistry issues when using our WaterLink Solutions Pro software program. It allows pool and spa analysts the best way to achieve precise

Results so simple anyone can use it. This is the most advanced system for precise use of wet chemistry methods ever produced. Pool and spa analysts can achieve precision without time consuming tests or cleanup procedures. This groundbreaking analysis system is so simple, no vials to fill, no prep time, no guessing. To learn more about this innovative lab, visit www.waterlinkspintouch.com.

Again, www.waterlinkspintouch.com

you

Speaker 2 (06:14.478)
The Pool Pros, tired of roasting under the sun and gear that doesn't hold up? Revved Up Apparel has your back with SPF-protected apparel made for the Pool Pro. Want to stand out from the competition? Done. No minimum orders, no inventory stress. We handle the design, posting, printing and fulfillment so you can focus on the grind. Whether you're a single puller or managing a whole fleet, this is how you gear up smart and stay sharp. Check out RevvedUpApparel.com. Vote for the Pool Pros.

Enzymes are biological catalysts, specialized proteins that accelerate chemical reactions without themselves being consumed. In swimming pools, they are used to target non-living organic contaminants such as body oils, lotions, sweat, sunscreen, and plant debris. The chlorine alone cannot efficiently oxidize. These enzymes operate through a lock and key mechanism. Substrate molecules fit into an enzyme's active site where the enzyme then facilitates bond breaking,

fragmenting complex molecules into simpler byproducts like fatty acids and glycerol. These byproducts are far less problematic for pool clarity and do not form persistent films or scum. Lipase enzymes in particular excel at hydrolyzing fats into fatty acids and glycerol. Some studies evaluating commercially available pool products have confirmed measurable lipase activity, although the prevalence and efficacy

Enabling such enzymatic breakdown means that chlorine is not wasted on oxidizing complex organics, allowing it instead to focus on disinfection, thus reducing chlorine demand and promoting clearer water with fewer disinfection byproducts. Research into more advanced enzymatic applications extends to

cyanuric acid, CYA, a stabilizer that protects chlorine from ultraviolet degradation but can accumulate to levels that interfere with chlorine's efficacy. Cyanuric acid hydrolyze CAH enzymes, such as the thermostable CAHPR derived from pseudolabrace, have been shown to hydrolyze CYA into bioret under mild conditions. However, because hypochlorite

Speaker 1 (08:37.933)
chlorine present in pool water and activate CH, enzymes even at low concentrations, a reductant such as sodium sulfite must be added first. Only then can chlorine be applied to oxidize biuret further into benign gases like carbon dioxide and nitrogen. In practice, enzyme activity in pools continues until their substrates are depleted or until enzymes are

deactivated or diluted. Because enzymes are not chemical disinfectants, they typically don't accumulate harmful residues and instead degrade or become inactive naturally. Pool operators must ensure appropriate dosing and delivery for effective contact with contaminants. Enzyme products may be formulated either to target specific contaminant classes, e.g. lipids, or to act broadly

against a range of bather wastes, rather than replacing sanitizers like chlorine or bromine. Enzymes augment traditional pool chemistry by removing the very substances that consume oxidizers and degrade water quality. They reflect a marriage of biochemical precision and water treatment innovation, maintaining clarity, reducing chemical consumption, and even addressing stabilizer

build up via specialized CAH enzymes in controlled sequential processes. This evolution suggests a future where enzymatic strategies play an increasingly central role in maintaining healthier, more efficient swimming environments. If mentorship were a pool chemical, chlorine, stabilizer, algaecide, whatever, chemical would it be for you and why would that analogy fit?

your own experience guiding people through pool care.

Speaker 2 (10:41.646)
would say for me I would say probably like sonaric acid for being stabilized basically being insured like you know for instance like flooring being stable and being consistent and that to me is one of the biggest things about being a mentor teaching and stuff like that is trying to be consistent being stable and you know just basically stand there

attracting them at the same time keeping them

Speaker 1 (11:12.364)
You're shielding them so ultimately as the cyanuric acid would. So just because I ask off the wall shit, imagine, I know you can't wait. Imagine you and your team are stranded on a desert Island and there's a swimming pool. Just one. What, what role do you instinctively take and what does that reveal about how you see your responsibility to the people who depend on you in the real world, in everyday life?

when it comes to that when I see the pool I just more or less there is the finger border and so Megan sure like aces in the places basically so Everybody's gonna have the job to do and each job is very important. That means scrubbing the pool scrubbing the walls You know somebody scrubbing the skimmers to tile checking the chemicals following up with checking the chemicals making sure things consistent That's that that's the role. I like to play

I feel like that's where I fit this.

Okay, ensuring that it gets done Making sure that people have the tools that they need to get it done. How important is that? I mean you can tell people to do it all day long. Do you actually?

Is very it's very important to me is very important because I want to keep not just Swimmer state, but I want to keep you had the people I work with safe and so it's very important To that point make sure they have the right tools. Make sure they understand what they're you using handling All that good stuff. don't want somebody having a bad chemical reaction or you know worth a bit You know drowning or something like that because I did make sure everybody's doing

Speaker 2 (12:51.534)
their job correctly.

you rely on them to determine whether or not they have the correct tools and just say, yeah, Shannon, I got everything I need. Or do you actually, actually, I'm going to say spot check. I'm not going to say, cause you know, if you're out there every morning, that's a little bit insane, but do you check from time to time to make sure they're not foolish?

I do yes, I do spot check because we do have safety, you know, just like any pool We have safety checklists and stuff like that. So I do spot check Follow up that type of thing even if there's some of weekends where I don't have to come out stuff like that You can kind of tell them think doesn't go to yeah, it's done the way you want it to be done, you know, so And there's no wiggle room. So they pretty much part

Everybody does what you're supposed to be done. Even if we get a new person in I don't know about myself or my assistant will come in to make sure that the job is done correctly because you know Apartment homes when I think you don't want to come yeah, it's not like going to a hotel if you see in nasty hotel or nasty pool at the hotel You're not gonna jump in, you know, I mean as well, you know, I it's like I think people do and guys

I've seen people do some shit. So I've showed up to green pools, not mine, but for the first time and seen people swimming in them and get all pissed off when I asked them to get out. you know, you never really know because they are people. And God bless you. did, I don't know if you know this or not, when I had my service company, I had quite a few pools, mostly commercial, mostly student housing. So basically apartment complexes filled with 18 to 24 year olds.

Speaker 1 (14:34.19)
That was a day in my life. I promise you, if you have horror stories, I could probably go head to head on things that you've seen there. But, I know for me, one of my biggest challenges when I had my service company was, okay, I train these guys, I teach them what I need them to do, I lead by example because, you know, God forbid I tell somebody they need to wear the mask and then they see me not wearing the mask, it sends the wrong message, I have to do everything, you know, I say I do, and I did, and...

Then I send them out into the field on their own and I have to somehow hope that I instilled enough in them to ensure that they still operate to the same level when they're out there by themselves unsupervised. How do you make sure that happens? What tricks do you have?

That's a good question. And I wish I had a real answer for you. Because if anyone's most if anybody's like me, I like also learning by failure So I'm sure that when people are releasing to the wild they're gonna try to figure out I can I know a better way so My thing is I hope one thing I try to teach is that it's okay to fail and I hope they learn from the mistakes and I'm hoping that they learn all their mistakes while they're with me

for the most part, but yeah, that's a yeah, I don't have to I don't have to answer like a sure answer to that one. Yeah.

I used to do my OSHA stuff, of course, and I did everything from the point where you get a new chemical, you're going to add it to the vehicle. Before it went on the vehicle, I made the person sit down and read the SDS sheet. Then we'd have a conversation about it. Then we'd look at what personal protection equipment was necessary to handle it. I would make sure that they had it. And it was to the point where I actually just assigned everybody their PPE.

Speaker 1 (16:21.036)
And it's just the five pieces, the five standard pieces that are on every SDS sheet or every combination of which. And then during the safety meetings, I used to make them bring that stuff to me so I could look at it and try to guess if it looked like it was being used or not. That was basically the control I had over that. So I'm sure they're like, crap, let's throw some dirt on this on the way over. I'm sure that happened a lot. But you know, you get, you get these instances where

And here's one that you run into a lot. So calcium hypochlorite, you're familiar with the chemical. We know if calcium hypochlorite gets wet, it can ignite. Does that mean it's going to ignite every time it gets wet? No. I've had the bucket lid off. It's been drizzling. I've accidentally got a droplet of water in there before. It didn't ignite. But you get a lot of folks that are like, well, yeah, this happened. They're full of crap. It's never going to happen. And of course, you know, one day it can.

But how do you... You still have to send them out there, trial and error, whether they learn the hard way or not. We don't want them to explode.

I had an explosion story. I was this was many many many years ago I just got to do property and the property manager our service manager was there out He was going to go to a new property and so he was just kind of shit there was like my first or second day and he had told his Technician at the time. Hey go piss on quarry and into the coordinator and so they had whatever reason they had two different types of pouring tablets and this guy

Mixed both up men there and we were in the back of property and all sudden you hear this car boom and a Massive explosion. I mean shrapnel went through the door through the walls. I mean, thankfully nobody got hurt They like went into the actual leasing office area fire departments out there I mean I like to tell the story just like to like when I'm in these classes and you know to the guys and stuff like that just how how it can

Speaker 2 (18:23.276)
How reactive it can be? You know not even thinking like well, this is pouring. Well, this is pouring well actually yeah, it's true But not really the same chemical you should be putting them together like that But yeah, so I'd like to tell these stories that you know and my failures stories stories and stuff like that So that hopefully they will You know learn from that as well

I think that's key. You know, we have to explain, you know what? It's not going to happen every time. It's not. It just isn't. So the fact that it doesn't happen, don't let that lower your level of concern in handling these materials because it can happen. And when it does, it can be catastrophic. So yeah, we have to get that message. We have to get that message out there.

Speaker 1 (19:17.272)
Cyanuric acid is a triazine ring weak acid chemically known as 1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6-triol. In swimming pools, it acts as a stabilizer for chlorine, forming a dynamic equilibrium between free chlorine and a family of chlorinated cyanurates. In water, cyanuric acid exists in several ionic forms depending on pH, and when chlorine is present, it readily binds to form monochloroizocyanurate and dichloroizocyanurate species.

This binding is what provides chlorine protection against ultraviolet Essentially, cyanuric acid reduces the amount of free hypochlorous acid available at any instant, but stabilizes the total chlorine in the system, slowing its loss under sunlight. Researchers such as Waman and colleagues have shown that with about 25 milligrams per liter of cyanuric acid, the free chlorine concentration in water exposed to sunlight remains significantly higher over time

light.

Speaker 1 (20:15.384)
than in water with no stabilizer present. The stabilizing effect is operationally valuable outdoors because without cyanuric acid, sunlight can cut free chlorine levels in half within 30 minutes. A modest amount of cyanuric acid extends the functional life of chlorine, but this benefit comes with a trade-off. The same complexation that protects chlorine also reduces the immediate concentration of hypochlorous acid, which is the active disinfecting and oxidizing agent.

.

Speaker 1 (20:45.826)
This means disinfection and oxidation reactions occur more slowly as cyanuric acid levels increase. Field studies confirm this. In Minnesota, a survey of more than 130 pools and 30 spas showed that oxidation reduction potential decreased consistently as cyanuric acid rose, reflecting the reduced oxidizing power available at any moment. The consequences are especially important with chlorine-resistant pathogens.

In laboratory tests designed to simulate hyperchlorination for Cryptosporidium parvum inactivation, the presence of 100 mg per liter of cyanuric acid significantly slowed oocyst kill rates, even when chlorine concentrations were maintained at 20 to 40 mg per liter for 72 hours. Because of findings like this, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, through its Model Aquatic Health Code,

specifies higher minimum chlorine levels when cyanuric acid is present, prohibits cyanuric acid in hot water venues such as spas and therapy pools, and recommends a maximum of 90 milligrams per liter in other aquatic settings. From a chemical perspective, what truly governs disinfection strength is the ratio of free chlorine to cyanuric acid. At normal swimming pool pH,

This ratio largely determines how much hypochlorous acid remains unbound and immediately active. In contrast, pH alone becomes a relatively minor factor once cyanuric acid is in the water. This is why many water chemistry experts argue that operators should maintain chlorine in proportion to stabilizer concentration, rather than aiming for a single fixed free chlorine value.

Another operational reality is that stabilized chlorine products contribute directly to cyanuric acid buildup, chlorinated cyanurates. When they are added, they release chlorine for sanitation, but simultaneously add cyanuric acid in fixed stoichiometric amounts. Roughly 6 mg per liter of cyanuric acid are added for every 10 mg per liter of free chlorine delivered by Triclur.

Speaker 1 (22:55.32)
while dichlor contributes closer to 9 mg per liter of cyanuric acid for the same chlorine dose. Over time, this creep is why operators who rely heavily on tablets or dichlor shocks see stabilizer levels climb steadily. Once a pool has reached its desired cyanuric acid level, day-to-day chlorination should be done with unstabilized products such as sodium hypochlorite or on-site chlorine generation. The second is dilution, the traditional corrective action.

Because oxidation of cyanuric acid with chlorine requires impractically high doses and long contact times, partial water replacement is the most practical means of reducing excess levels. The third, still developing, is enzymatic breakdown. Certain bacteria produce an enzyme called cyanuric acid hydrolase, which catalyzes the hydrolysis of cyanuric acid into biorette and carbon dioxide.

A thermostable variant called CAHPR has been engineered for potential industrial applications. However, because free chlorine inactivates this enzyme even at very low concentrations, the process requires a reductant such as sodium sulfite to first neutralize hypochlorite before the enzyme can act. After hydrolysis, chlorine can then be reintroduced to oxidize the biorette and other byproducts.

This shows promise as a water-saving strategy, but is not yet a simple add-and-forget poolside solution.

JaxMagic products is your industry leader in identifying, removing, and preventing stains. How? With a range of high-performance, eco-friendly products, keeping pools safe, clean, and ready to use all year round. The JaxMagic 3-Step Program is a quick and effective way to remove stains and scaling. First, we identify the problem, then our top quality products will remove the discoloration. Finally, our preventative solutions will keep your pool looking like new for much longer. Get helpful tips and check out our product catalog today at JaxMagic.com.

Speaker 2 (25:01.46)
AquaStar's new pipeline cartridge filters, available in two sizes, deliver top-notch hydraulic efficiency along with best-in-class filtration performance, approaching that of DE filters. Uniquely designed open pleat spacing means 100 % of the media square footage is usable, and these claims are backed by NSF test results. Designed with the Pro's time and comfort in mind, the patented double locking system improves safety and ease of access.

making filter cleanings faster than ever before. Available now. Ask your supplier for pipeline filters today. That is amazing. I could actually go out and make money doing filter cleanings if it were like this. If there were AquaStar filters out there, then I could be a filter cleaner, girl.

We can do that, make it happen. Let's make it happen. There you go, awesome. Thank you Jules the Pool Girl. Again, AquaStar Pool Products Pipeline Filters, super easy.

Super easy. Pool Magazine is the hottest new publication for the pool and spa industry. Featuring up to the minute news on what's happening in the pool world in a fresh new stylized format with our mobile friendly app. Pool Magazine is the app for keeping your fingers on the pulse of the pool industry. You'll find featured news, editorials, podcasts,

videos.

Speaker 2 (26:31.074)
and more on the Pool Magazine app. Download on Google Play and the App Store.

Looking back at your first year in the industry, what's the moment you still remember thinking, God, I wish somebody had shown me the

I could tell you I know things wasn't right when I first got into the industry and we worked at this pool and the full was jacked and they had a third party so they had they did a third party vendor and When they went around the people that was teaching me all they did was chlorine chlorine chlorine didn't check anything didn't test anything Just pay loss their coring were good. You couldn't drain the pool properly because they cemented

And submitted the main drain. So there's no no real main drains just skimmers I mean it was just totally jacked and people went swimming and all the bricks that was laying on the on the edge all Felt in the water at one time. It was like this one whole side that's fell through The problem one of the things I and to be honest with you I didn't know this was a path I could take for so long I think that's the biggest thing that I like to try to tell people now is

Get into where i'm at and like pretty industry and stuff like that. I didn't know there was these paths I could Readily take and take serious like being a know phta instructor, you know, also do like the 608 for epa and do a constructing that stuff. I didn't realize that until the last You know five six years that that's something that's You know that's achievable and do to create these paths to be able to expand and

Speaker 2 (28:16.61)
Give your knowledge to you and experiences on top of it. So That would be the part and I wish somebody had the chance to set me down and go hey You know if you really want to take this serious, here's some paths that you could actually go down So that would be it

vast the opportunities are. think it's kind of stealth. Most people, it's a hidden world and you really don't know about it until you're deep in it. And then it's eye-opening because it's huge. It really is. So tell me a time someone on your team kept making the same mistake over and over again. How did you handle it? And what did you learn about patients and accountability in the process?

One of the things I would say with that is I finally was sit down and like Ask them like tell me what? What it is that you do why you do what you're doing like tell me explain me to this process of why you're doing what you're doing compared to what you've been showed to do and so sometimes That's been said to me and explained to me. I Go. Wow, that's actually a good idea was maybe implement that maybe this

Maybe something I thought maybe it was wrong and then it was just me being you know stuck in my my ways so a lot of times that's what I like to do with a lot of people like even if it's like somebody comes in late all the time It's like sit down one. It was like hey me just uh, recommend you over and over and over of you being late How can we fix this because what I'm doing is not working. So what how can we fix this? So sometimes just having that conversation like hey, man

If you come in at 8 30 and maybe work to 5 30, you know type of situation or something like that and it results and Sometimes it's just you know, I found it. Yeah, not it doesn't work 100 % of time but a lot of times just have a conversation and then If it's something that's what they're doing is incorrect. It's like no that's not gonna work It shares why I need you to do this and explain into them the process of why you have to do what you do know that

Speaker 2 (30:25.378)
A of times that has to click for him. That's at the same. Make sure you do this. Make sure you do this. Make sure you do this and actually explain in great detail why this is so important.

And I'm not a detail. I'm not a super detail guy. I'm just more like let's get this guy kind of thing But sometimes yeah, that's one of the septem

I spent a good decade in retail swimming pool supplies and I had a fairly large team and I had a rule you're gonna laugh and this is why I'm telling you this because it kind of hinges off of something you said and what I told them was is first off there's never a reason to be more than 15 minutes late and it's impossible to be 15 minutes late if the reason you're late is that you stopped to get me a cup of coffee because you know if you stop to get me coffee

That's actually a nice thing to do and I appreciate that. that was a rule that I implemented and it worked quite well.

I we actually had something where if you came in late you had to bring in breakfast for everybody So and then that worked and then yeah that worked

Speaker 1 (31:27.041)
there you-

That's a lot more expensive than what I did.

yeah i guess is your policy

I didn't even want a Starbucks cup, I mean just a regular cup of coffee was fine so a buck or two. But you got them out there blowing a couple hundred bucks on bagels and stuff.

Yeah, they stopped coming in late after a while.

Speaker 1 (31:48.992)
I bet they did. So, Lord. What's the hardest truth you've ever had to tell someone you were leading and how did that conversation change your relationship with them?

I was leading the artistry. I had someone that was leading that when they were here They were awesome. Like they did the job. They were they would do what I asked them to do no questions asked and but just their availability of coming in and everything just wasn't working no matter what I tried to help them with and I finally had to go hey, I gotta let you go Yeah, because it's a detrimental to the rest of team like we are here. They're awesome

but That's far in between at this point, you know I Break the other problem breaking. Yeah. Yeah, so it was it was heartbreaking for me. I felt really bad. But yeah, and that person was upset as well, obviously But yeah, I would say that was that was pretty bad

And uh, it was fun!

Speaker 1 (32:49.356)
I can see that. was always when I was any of the times when I was doing interviews, whenever anybody would ask me, what's your greatest weakness? You know that question? It always comes up. You probably ask people it as well. I know I do. And to me, it was just always, you know, I don't like firing people. I hate it. It bothers me, but I do what I have to do. And the truth is people usually fire themselves, but it's something that's...

For those of you listening, you need an answer to that question, I think that's a pretty damn good one. But yeah, it leans on that. People fire themselves and that's what it comes down to. Speaking of which, how do you handle the employee that quits but keeps showing up? You know what I mean?

yeah, I do know what you mean Yeah, so I for me I'm a time-forgiving person for the most part so But I've also learned you know, and you know, is You know when you have to deal with certain Red red tape, you know, you have to walk down that line but I'd say it's just document document document until

that person's gone. That's all I can put it. You know, because if you let it go for too long, other employees notice it and and that's just a downfall from there. guess head off this night. Yeah. Yeah. Cut that tumor out.

When you bring someone in and they're all attitude and no experience, how do you decide whether to push them hard or protect them? Walk me through a moment that decision really mattered.

Speaker 2 (34:28.654)
I brought some money in this is This is quite a few years ago when a different company and He actually came in as a temp. I hired him as well. Here's a temp came in did job and I noticed he was hustling and Everything like that So I hired him and brought him as a grouse person start teaching So I said, see where you're at with this you start doing well. So alright

What do you want to do? What do you want to do when you want to grow up and you want to learn more so I taught him more and taught him taught him taught him and this person in general had a problem coming in late and So I had to set him down and that's why we had a conversation. So we actually worked out a plan but um, I was hard on him like I would show him something and I would then I showed him the first time and then he would do it and then I'd let him go and

Be tired. So you come hey, man. I'm like, hey, we already did this You know this because it was a confidence issue at that point, you know and for me I want people I learned better when I learned made mistakes definitely a lot of mistakes and I wanted people to I want people to feel I wanted people to feel comfortable that if they made a mistake, it's okay lost the baits has died or Since like seriously injured something like that, you know, we can fix it

Right now, you know, it's like hey we can fix it. I can fix whatever you messed up we can but I just want you to try and I was really I really leaned on that guy. you know, he ended up excelling When I left that place, know eventually taking over becoming that supervisor

Yes, so back to your your guidelines as long as you didn't kill someone you can work with it

Speaker 2 (36:20.258)
that

So, aside from that fellow, because this question could easily go that route, so I'm going ask you to dig a little deeper. Think of a person that you've mentored who completely surprised you. Did their journey teach you about leadership that you didn't see coming?

well, this is gonna go back to my food service industry before for I'm at now I was in the food service and This is a fine that to me is a funny story, but I had this guy there was a group of kids and They always came in my parking lot and skateboarded all the time and I kept kicking around them off run them off learn them off and I finally Want that they came in one day one the one boy came in one day these like looking for a job and

I said hey, I you I said you're the skater dude, right? Yes. I keep running off against yes I tell you what you're gonna have a job as long as I quit skating here these take wherever else you want this don't skateboard in our parking lot and he gets alright and I really thought he was gonna be like this This dud of a boy, but I did it hoping to get the hair, you know get that problem on my hair He ended up being like an awesome employee like

Really awesome. Oh, wait, like come to work and did his job. He was I mean he was this really good great personality and um That surprised me so You know so good employees can come from anywhere even if you let your each expect So I would say that was the for me. It was like a eye-opening that was way when I was way way younger For that type of thing just thought yeah

Speaker 2 (37:59.926)
not be so close-minded. That makes sense,

Which Marvel superhero is most similar to your leadership style? Marvel? Or villain? It doesn't have to be a hero, I'm just throwing it out there. could be either one. Thanos, make them all go away.

Here that's more my leadership style I would probably say like for Marvel one probably say kind of Iron Man because of his charisma not so much as the technology savvy Genius, but he had a lot of charisma about him So I think one of my strengths is is as my wife says is able to get more out of people than a normal and somebody else can play So I have that charm

About me, I guess so i'm able to achieve a lot with a lot less. Yeah, I don't know uh I believe both but I would say I guess I lean more towards dc

her marvelling.

Speaker 2 (38:58.734)
I superman if I was already in step so

Are leaders born or made? Can you give me an example of someone whose transformation convinced you one way or the other?

I think it can be both do you think when it's made I also think that can be in relation to other people and I have one person in mind that in this back in the food service industry they were big on the personality test like this and stuff like that and I was like an assistant at the time assistant manager and they had this other guy who was a general manager but he was he was buried by the book buried by the book

And what they liked about me was when you would come in there everybody was happy everybody smiling everybody's having a good time So I was the person I was you know had a lot of personality At the time so they put me with him to make him more personable So they thought my personality hoping it would rub off on his personality and fake and then but at same time have his rub off on me so I could be a little bit more organized more a little bit more detail and

And it actually worked both ways. So I took a lot of what he had and he took a lot of what I had. And so we ended up being like two really good managers and we ended up making lots of money for, you know, high profits and stuff like that. But then it was putting us up eventually. So we have two really successful stores. So to me that helped make us better leaders.

Speaker 1 (40:24.67)
Rock music or country music? Okay. Ozzy or Robert Plant? Ozzy. Okay. Tell me about a time when you stepped back and let someone else lead. What was at stake and what did you see in them that told you it was the right move?

Move that's a hardening. That's I got really dig deep on that one We might need to come back. Yeah, I like to think I'm laid back but I think I think when I see stuff going wrong that or whatever the case may be I just kind of take off or want to take over or like get my Like hey, you know, we be doing this Yeah, well not really push him out away, but like try to you know, yeah, try to steal my wheel the best. Yeah

We can come back to it if you want.

Speaker 2 (41:10.958)
So hey

Sit down. What's the difference between showing someone how to do a task and actually shaping how they think? Give me a story where you watch that shift happen in real time.

Now that's that's a good one. Yeah, you definitely got you definitely give me now. There's some good ones I think it would be my sister I have now and so I've Like I'm a person who will show everything that I know I don't try to hide anything because I want you to have I want you to like that was ever leave I want you to be able to take up the reins and keep on going like like it's open book in my brain and I've showed this I showed him is

as much as I can show them and I will say the last past year or so I've had two neck surgeries that I get fusion and then I had to do another fusion. So in that time frame, the first time around, I was only up for a month. But the second time around, I was out for four months. And I think and after all that, when it came back, he had a great appreciation of what was he's been shown and told and stuff. And he's like, wow.

I really start to get What you've been showing, you know showing me and preparing me for so and so yeah, so now it's like, Yeah, when you get that light bulb, it's like man, you're in line, know that that's me. was like, okay, that's that's you know like now you catching on now you catching on to it and It's it's nice to see that they catch that and they understand it's like oh this this is not this what what I do ain't just like, okay, this is not

Speaker 2 (42:54.808)
Sit around or whatever it's like there's a lot of planning like every day is a plan of the day the week the month six months from now It's like, you know and for him to actually have to see that for especially for four months You know, that was quite a undertaking for

You teach CPO when you're teaching or anything else for that matter, because I know you cover a lot of different things when you're teaching. What's the moment that tells you when it clicked, you know, when you see that light bulb go off and can you describe the last time you actually saw that? Wow, that spark in someone's eyes.

For me, the spark is when you actually have people actually start asking you questions already. Are you hit on something that they may be dealing with? And then they start asking a bunch of questions and then that then you go on a break and they're like, hey, man, I'm trying to think of the instance there was there was something that had just happened not too long ago. One of my classes, I'm trying to remember exactly what it was about. But they came up to me as like, man,

I'm glad you said that I'm gonna get back to that because I think you're actually having that problem as a as as we're in a class and he's like man one straight to that property and I'm gonna go get this I'm gonna check that and see if that's the case and I think I was something just would off with the chemicals I think that's all it was that's that's what gives it for me. It's like when people are like Probably being told the same way I was told, you know, just throw chlorine in there. It'd be good type of thing and then when you find out it's like you mean

Dischemical with just chemical If I have too much of this they won't work like what you know that kind of thing is like yeah, they're like, you know, that's when they're like they can't just like Like wow, can't believe that and then when you say well, hey, let's talk about this this the quarry not only does an Eric Aston But there's four is gonna mess up your pH, but you be which cori here, you know, you've got a lot of people I get a lot of people to class that don't even know what corn they're using, you know and

Speaker 2 (44:57.08)
And their pools are jacked up, but then why is verifying that the chemicals are correct? They're professionals, you know, and then they find out that, know, your son Eric has is way over a hundred. You don't even know how high it is. No wonder you got, you know, you're swimming in a swamp, you know. So I think that's the biggest thing that they realized that a, if you have a third party, that doesn't make you not responsible for your pool and being all those chemicals matter. All those tests that you do matter.

Because they correspond with each other those are things I think people like those when the light bulbs are come on that I notice in the class as I teach

I tell everybody that if you're doing things correctly, by the end of a 30 day period of time, you should have touched every Gintamette test kit at least once. That takes them pretty much through chlorine every day, pH every day, all the way up and through hardness once a month on a happy camper. But when from a lot of times, you know, it's things that they have access to that they don't even realize. So I agree with you wholeheartedly, but you know, it's like, you know, you have a test to see when you need to shock your pool.

or super chlorinated or breakpoint, chlorinate, whatever term you want to use. don't really care. It's that third yellow bottle. And then all of those say something like, you know, third yellow bottles, really easy to find DPD three in your test kit. It's the one that's still full, but it's eye opening because they don't realize. Yeah. But they don't realize because the back of the bucket says you need to shock your pool once a week. The back of the bucket says you need to use a pound per 10,000 gallons every time you shock your pool. But you know what?

You teach this in CPL. That's not necessarily, that's not the case. It can be your protocol of care if that's what you want to offer, but not because you have to. We have a test to see when we need to shock the pool. We have math to figure out what dose we need. And that's when I see a lot of the eyes go, wow, are people edge up on their seat because I've been wasting so much money dumping Gallipoli every week. I could buy a truck.

Speaker 2 (46:51.328)
or algae sand.

If you had only one story to pass down to the next generation of pool professionals, what story would you tell and what lesson do you want it to leave behind?

is the story I tell in every one of my classes. A long time ago, I had this pool and I always had an algae problem with it. I had black algae and green algae. One of the biggest problems with that one was it was overused. You know, in property management like we have, they don't want to make their residents mad because they want the pool to be open. And so every weekend, come in on Monday and that's all slick. Right. You know, I'm talking about you did the student housing. So you probably dealt with it.

Think about there's a it's a old slick but long story short I would The doubt you said I did once a week I'd walk around there go to to to do right and I just did around them. It was a super concentrated stuff didn't read the labels nothing like that and every every Following spring we would we would pump it down and we would refill it for this particular year We didn't do that. I just loved it. That's why I think we had refinished it. That's when I got here to pull

lighter results yeah messed up whatever and I Didn't and I kept doing the blue blue blue and then one day I came out there Water was perfectly clear but green nice little red tint to it. No out the unit And I say what the hell is wrong with my pool thumb test of my chemicals. Everything's perfect The numbers are perfect. So I end up taking it to my local pool company I said hey, can you tip on rubbers on this? Well copper is super hot and

Speaker 2 (48:34.222)
That was the problem. So I had to drain it down get the car problem of it and then fill it back up So what I tell you tell everybody is tomorrow story is read it down Directions on the label, you know as it just if you do that just in general, know You won't make these kind of drastic for one wasting material and wasting that kind of money But also causing yourself a massive headache So read instructions

So, on a final note, one thing to leave everybody with. What is the best piece of advice you'd ever been given pertaining to anything?

If I don't know get with somebody who does know and if they don't know Look, you know search for the answer

Love it. Everybody, Shannon, thank you for stopping in with us today. I appreciate you. Top 10 mentor in the running for the Mentor of the Year Award. How do people get a hold of you if they want to ask you a question? Is that okay? If people reach out and ask you a question, are you cool with that?

Yeah, they can reach out they can um, they can uh email me at uh, wilsonshannond at gmail.com I can give my number out too. They can text me that's 804 Text me 804-337-875 and if you have a question and if I can answer I will if not, there's always google

Speaker 1 (49:44.952)
Probably up to you.

Speaker 1 (49:55.278)
There you go. hit up a few people before you hit Google. And if you do Google, then make sure the advice is coming from somebody you've heard of before for good reasons. So that's that's all I got for you guys for this week. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning in. Without you, we don't exist. We do this for you. Without you, we are nothing. appreciate you more than you will ever know. Until next time, be good.