Pool Startups: Best Practices and Industry Insights

Welcome to the Talking Pools podcast with Steve and Wayne! In this episode, they dive into the intricacies of pool startups, offering a comprehensive guide to what works, what doesn't, and what makes for a successful startup procedure. Here's what you can expect:

• Recap of Last Episode: A brief revisit of the key topics covered last week, including pool openings and covers.
• Startup Procedures: Wayne and Steve highlight the importance of following proper procedures and share expert insights on starting up pools effectively.
• Competition in the Industry: A discussion on the competitive nature of the pool services sector and tips for setting yourself apart from competitors.
• Retail and Manufacturer Relationships: Exploring the role of retail in pool services, strategies for understanding list pricing and warranties, and the significance of building strong relationships with manufacturers.
• Identifying and Documenting Pool Issues: Practical advice for spotting potential problems early and ensuring proper documentation for effective solutions.

Tune in for practical advice, industry knowledge, and a bit of banter! Whether you're a seasoned pro or new to the pool service world, Steve and Wayne have something for everyone.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:53

Happy Thursday, everybody, and welcome to the Talking Pools Podcast with Steve and Wayne on Thursdays, our day, the best day of the week, because you guys will be listening to us. Boy, didn't that sound pretentious? Um for an early Thursday morning. So um I got a couple things to talk about, but I think what we're gonna start off with, Steve, is is pretty much um a part two of what we last recorded, and that was a pull startup start. Uh what to do, what not to do, you know, what what's a good procedure to to follow when you're starting up a pool. So I'm I'm gonna kind of pass it off to you right now because uh you're the you're the expert in that. I'm only an expert in part of it, but uh let's um let's talk about that. So maybe a recap first of what we talked about the last time.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Yeah, absolutely. So hi Wayne, hi everybody, happy Thursday. Thanks for listening to the show. Uh yeah, last week we talked a little bit about openings, right? So we talked about different things that you need to look for, and just we started talking about the covers and a few different things, you know, that in its own right, as I said in the last show, is gets crazy, you know, and there's just a lot of stuff going on in there. So with opening a pool, like there's you don't have to do it in a certain way, you know. Like you can go and take the cover off, and then you can go and put the equipment together, and you know, you're gonna be there for a long while. You know, you're in there kind of for the long haul for at least a couple hours with with everything. So you can kind of jump around a little bit, right? But when you start up a pool, the first week of the pool, and I would say the first 30 days, you have to treat this plaster like it's a baby. And there's just, you know, there's so many things that need to be done on a day-to-day basis. And uh, I think that a lot of people start up pools, but they just kind of aren't really sure what they're doing, and you, you know, you don't know what you don't know. So, you know, I we're gonna talk a little bit today about you know, a few different things that you need to make sure that you're doing while you're starting these pools out, you know, and the and the first thing is, you know, when you talk to your clients about getting different types of plaster, I've always just kind of let the dice roll the way that it was. And like if you wanted to to take regular plaster, regular white Marsite, you could do that. Uh, if you wanted to put color in it, like gray or blue, you could do that. Uh, and then if you wanted to get like a higher end surface, you could do the mini pebble surface, you know, and then the the best surface to do is the quartz surface, right? It's now the most expensive. And but now I honestly don't let my clients do any type of colored plaster. And why is it? And the reason because it's just it doesn't matter who starts it up. I mean, you could be the best at doing the startup, and you could follow all every all of the instructions to a T and you do it the same way every way, every time, and every single time, like all the pools that I get called out to, you know, it's all these colored plastered pools that just they look like shit. And you know, I'm not saying that I haven't seen ones that don't look good, but over time, you know, the you wind up having this copper in the water, and you wind up having these, you know, these metals in the water that come out of solution and they stain on the walls and floors, you know, from precipitating. And uh, it just doesn't look good over time, right? And I'm sure there's guys out there listening that are like, well, we could do it, and you know, awesome. Like if you have it down pat, then kudos to you, you know what I mean? And there I'm there are really great builders out there that do a really good job. And but the biggest thing is like a lot of times you're getting these pools and you're not the one starting it up, right? Because, and I've said this before on a lot of different shows that most of the builders are gonna have some other company start the pool up, and then there's gonna be a third company that's gonna actually service the pool. So, number one, the record keeping and documentation is so so super important. However, wherever you fall onto this, because if you're the person that starts the pool up, you have to have good record keeping. Because if you're not the person that's gonna be actually servicing the pool on a week-to-week basis, you know, this person that comes in now could mess up the or just not have the water the way that it's supposed to be with the pH and the alkalinity and the calcium hardness and all that stuff. So I don't really push my clients into Mini Peple now. And I say it's a few things, you know, it's a it's a few, it's a bit extra more money, but as far as the longevity of it goes, you can really make it last a lot longer. And the startup, as far as like the plaster dust and just the day-to-day stuff, it makes the day-to-day stuff a lot easier. So, as far as like what do you do with starting the pool up, Ween? First thing that I always tell everybody is, you know, the plaster is gonna do what the plaster is gonna do, right? So they're going to resurface the pool, they're gonna shoot the pool, they're gonna trowel the pool. Sometimes they'll acid wash the pool, and then they're gonna get ready to fill the pool. So, what I'm using at the beginning, I'm using some sort of like Butech or Startup Tech. Jack's Magic makes a really good product too, but you wanna add something to the pool, you know, when you first start to fill it to help minimize with the plaster dust and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

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SPEAKER_00 7:46

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SPEAKER_03 8:13

Remember also, even before this all starts, one really important thing to do is test the source water and see where your beginning numbers are. Because as we know, calcium hardness is going to be your friend or your enemy, depending upon what happens. So you've got to get those initial incoming values so that you know what the next step is chemically in order to make sure there's no like oversaturation or you know the coming out of all the bad stuff that could happen.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Right. So that's a great point, Wayne. Um, so not only am I gonna be testing the the tap water that's going into the pool, because that's gonna tell me exactly you're gonna need to know those values to figure out the day-to-day operation of where you're putting all the levels, but also what I'm gonna do is I've gotten into the habit of taking a pair of tube socks, like thick ones, and putting them over the spigot of the hose and zip tying a pair of socks to the hose. And the reason being is obviously you have a bunch of trace minerals and metals and whatnot that are that are in that in that fill water. So it's gonna catch like a little bit of those heavier pieces that are in there. I actually we just did a class and we were it was an in-person class, so they had a spa. So we actually tested the tap water, a TDS, because it was important for because they have a lot of people in the spa, so it was important for them to know their starting point. And the TDS coming out of the tap was over 200. Wow. Okay. Um, and I've always said that that like um, you know, because when you with the TDS, they want you to drain it when it gets 1500 above where you start at. Um, some say 2000. I usually do around 1500. Um, but now that makes a big difference of 1500 to 1700, right? Because now you're starting at 200. So you want to go 1500 above where you started at. Now we're filling this pool up. Once you start filling this pool up, you cannot stop the water, no matter what. Doesn't matter what type of plaster, guys. Like, there is no way that you can stop this water, it will make a ring around the pool, and you're gonna have a hard time getting it off. Okay. So again, you know, autofills with this work really well. Where, you know, you can tell the client, hey, when you go to bed, you can just turn it off, you know, and now the autofill is on. Um, because coming back and going back and forth, like right now, I've got a bunch of pools up in the Palisades where like if we start filling these pools, there's nobody's living there. So, how do we figure it out when the when the client's not there? What we'll do is we'll turn the water down, you know, and just make it maybe go a few inches up the wall so we don't overflow this pool at night. Uh, because again, when I used to have like 350, 400 pools back in the day with my old company, I would wake up in the middle of the night and be like, is this pool filling? Like, did I turn the water off? Like, is it in backwash? You know, so you need to make sure that you're again like documenting all this stuff. But again, like the first few days, obviously you want to test the pH, the alkalinity, the calcium hardness. Um, and you can test the chlorine too. I mean, sometimes the chlorine might have like 0.5 free chlorine in there, but it's not gonna have much. But the the biggest thing that you need to do first is bring the alkalinity up, is what they say, right? So you got to bring the alkalinity up at to at least 80 parts per million. Obviously, every day they want the pH between they say 7, 2, and 7.6. I'd prefer you to have it between 7, 4 and 7.6. Um, you know, and then they say the calcium hardness, right? So the first few days, like you're not even inducing chlorine at all. Like they don't want any chlorine in this water. Right. And then once they have you start inducing the chlorine, they want you to keep it between one and three. So if you don't have cyanuric acid in the water and you're between one and three, Wayne, you said that what? Like you could lose upwards of like one part per million in 15 minutes or something like that?

SPEAKER_03 11:56

In direct sunlight, right? About one part per million.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

So, you know, theoretically, this chlorine in 45 minutes could be could be gone. So what what is the point that they're they're they're doing there where we're putting it so low? Because obviously we're coming back the next day. So every day when you come back, it's at zero, right? But why are they doing that, Wayne, on like a chemical and why they want it?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

I think it's more of a preventive uh kind of situation because they don't want the development of algae or some kind of growth in there that could cause more problems down the road. So it's more of a preventive issue. And like you said, most municipal water systems have at least a half a part per million of free chlorine in the water. It's gonna vary all over the country. But you've got to be careful with that too, because a lot of municipal systems use chlormeans as their primary disinfectant. So it's called chloramination. And places like New Orleans, somewhere up in New York, has it to there's a a large handful of places around the country. Because and why do they do that? Because it's cheap, it's cheaper than feeding in what would be considered normal free chlorine, full strength. They let it degrade down naturally like it should, and then boom, because remember, most of the water systems or closed water systems are going to be retained in pipes. So once it hits open air and is exposed to the environment, uh you've got all sorts of potential problems. So you've got to have something in the water, even if it's a little bit, a little bit of chlorine is better than no chlorine whatsoever.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Right. And no, and I agree with that for sure. I'm just I'm just asking if we're because when I think about it, it's like if it only stays in there for a half hour, I guess it's good enough if it's getting rid of the algae and you know, not allowing algae to come. So that's a that's a pretty good answer because I've never even really thought about that before. So, okay, so for day one, basically, and look, like I'm following the NPC, which is the National National Plasters Council. Um, they have like this startup method and this startup card, and it will tell you like step by step exactly what you need to do every day. And if you follow that, you know, the biggest thing is, you know, making sure that all these levels are in between where they're supposed to be, and then making sure that you're brushing the pool. So I always tell all of my clients that if if they're renovating their pool, it doesn't matter if they're renovating it with me or if they're renovating it with someone else or you know, whatever it whatever it is. I tell them that you have to be an active participant in this if you really, you know, want to get your warranty. And sometimes they'll ask, like, hey, like, do I do you get a warranty for this? And like, there's not many people, like there's a lot, some plasters might give you like one year, and if it was something that was on their end, maybe they would probably come and fix it. But I would say that like it is so almost impossible to say exactly what it was. And I would say that like almost 80% of the time, it's either that it was a messed up startup, you know, in the first 30 days, something happened, like the pH was really low, or the pH was really high, or calcium was non-existent, and now it's you know peeling itself away or whatever. But uh it's just it winds up being a a lot in that, you know. So you have to brushing twice a day for the first 14 days, and then you know, brushing you know, once a day the rest of the days, it's that that's a lot. So nobody is coming to these pools for the first 30 days in these startups. Like, I know a lot of guys that do startups, and a lot of guys are coming like three days for the startup, a lot of guys are coming like seven days for the startup, a lot of guys are doing 10 days, so we do like about 10 days, and then we start coming once a week. So we're coming, you know. But I tell my client, like, hey, you have to actively brush this pool, you know, to get the plaster dust and to go away. And it's it's it's a lot. So there's a lot of guys out there that are doing startups, and you know, people aren't doing them the proper way. So just make sure that you're you know, you're looking at these things, and you know, National Plasters Council, they actually have a course and it's called the Startup Technicians Course. And you can go and it's uh like a one-day thing, and they give you a test kit and you learn a ton, you know, and they're gonna go into the different like why they're doing all of this stuff, like why you need the alkalinity there and why you need the calcium there, and when you start inducing the cyanuric acid. But the biggest thing is like, Wayne, I'm never putting it to chance with this stuff, you know, even though I'm 20 years in the business, uh, like I told you, I'm going to start up a pool later today, and I'm literally going to bring this card with me, and I'm just gonna start from the beginning and I'm gonna say, okay, cool, go into step one, and then I make sure I go through all the steps, and then I make sure in my capturing app that we document all of this stuff. And here's the thing: I don't ever start up pools anymore that we're not taking care of. Like if I don't get to do the whole process and even my client says, Hey, someone's doing this pool here. Um, do you want to start it up? I would be like, I'm okay. Thanks. Like you guys can, you know, I'd rather have them start it up. Right. Unless I'm the one that's gonna be taking care of the pool long term. I'm just not into it anymore because I've had it happen where you know now something's wrong and everybody is just pointing the finger at everybody. So the biggest thing for me is like when you're at these jobs, or if you're you know the person that's like overseeing this job, like go be there on the day that the pool is plastered, you know, like see what it looks like. Because I've seen it before where like there's areas of the pool where it's like really mismatched, you know, and it's only gonna get worse. And like if I was there and I was like, hey, like can we fix that right now? You know, like uh before we do anything, like it doesn't look right over there, it doesn't look like it's thick enough or whatever it is. And there's gonna be some sort of uh like percentage, right? Where like everything is not gonna look the same. And I've actually been called out to jobs before where someone was like, What do you think about this? Like, this is messed up, right? And I was like, you know, like to be completely honest with you, I'm like, that definitely falls within um like what it's supposed to look like. Like it looks a little bit off, but like it's never gonna be perfect. And you know, what we put in our contracts, we actually put in there that you need to have realistic expectations of what this stuff is gonna look like. And we say that a lot with like acid washes and stuff because it's more like you're taking part of this surface off and you're actually etching it. So like it actually could become more rough as you go on, you know. So there's a lot of different things that could happen. So you need to educate these clients that you have in saying, like, hey, I'm gonna be the one that starts the pool up, but like uh again, you know, it's not gonna look as best as it's gonna look if you're not gonna be brushing it. And then also, like, you can't be heating the pool for the first, you know, 14 to 30 days, and that's a big one for like the hotel clients and stuff. They want to turn the heater on right away, and it's not really good for the, you know, it's not good for the plaster at all. And then you can't use any wheeled vacuums for the first 30 days, too.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Yeah, or else you get tracks.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

So those commercial vacuums, you you can't use those, you can't throw in robotic vacuums, the Polaris, uh, like with the booster pump ones, you can't throw in there. So there's a lot of you know strict things that they're gonna talk about when you when you start up pools. So we're not gonna beat a dead horse with you know with this topic, but I just wanted to touch base because obviously it's super important to what you're gonna do. And since I'm actually going to do one today, like I said, I don't ever go out and do something and not read the manual. Right. Right. You know, so don't go out and start up a pool and not bring these tools with you to read because like these people have started up thousands of pools. And if you use these methods and if you can prove that every day you tested the water, excuse me, and that's what the the levels were, and this is what we put in to bring it up to X, you know, and you're at this pool every day, so you you know, I don't ever get to be at a pool every day, you know. So it's almost a privilege that you get to go to this pool and you can see like, damn, it actually went up more than I than I had anticipated. So maybe the pool's a little bit smaller, you know, maybe because it has these benches and stuff. So, or maybe, you know, we put in this stuff and it didn't go up as high as it was supposed to. So now the pool has a little bit more water in it than you think, and you're gonna find out these different things about the pool. And then also like adding this stuff to the pool, like sometimes it might tell you that you need to add, you know, 13 pounds or 16 pounds of baking soda because the alkalinity is coming out of the tap at you know 30. And you need to bring it says right here in the card that you need to bring it up to 80, right? So can you add all 15 16 pounds if you have a 10,000 gallon pool? Like that's not gonna, it's not gonna be it's not gonna go well with that. So you kind of have to be realistic of like, hey, maybe you add, you know, four pounds or five pounds, and then you go grab something to for lunch, or you you know, go to the store and pick up stuff for your wife and kids that you need to grab, and then you come back, you know, and you, you know, hour and a half later, now you can put in some more. Right, right. You know, but it all really depends on how big these pools are, and you always have to add a little bit of chemicals over a long period of time. But then I've had pools where like they're you know a hundred thousand gallon pools, and we're like, okay, cool, 50-pound bag of baking soda, like right in right in front of like the fire hose that they have. Right. And no problems with that. So it just really, you know, it just depends on what you have going on, but it's not good practice to be adding too much to these pools at the beginning. You just want to add a little bit over a long period of time, and that's gonna make your transition to you know making this pool a swimmable pool a little bit easier. Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Slow and steady wins the race pretty much for any kind of chemical edition. The only time that excuse me, the only time that I've really recommended adding everything all at once at one time is if you're trying to achieve breakpoint chloration, which is a whole another episode we can probably spend days talking about and we're not today. But yeah, I wanted to also bring up that uh and I have it on my other screen. I was trying to share the screen, but for some reason it wouldn't take it. But on the National Plasters Council's website is npconline.org. NPConline.org. And that's where you can find the information that Steve talked about as far as like the 30-day uh process. Um, a little bit more detailed information. Um NPC has been around for a long, long time and provides incredibly good information as far as startups are concerned, uh and basically anything that has to do with plaster. And the great group of people over there who who handle calls and things like that will be more than happy to uh to help you. They also, for your service guys and gals out there, they have tons of seminars available both online and in person. I remember back in the day when I did this, uh, they were all used. For some reason, always be an NPC rep at every distributor location I visited, holding some kind of class or talking to some kind of some service staff, things like that. So they're there. And and um I just saw it on the screen a moment ago. They have the that startup card that you were talking about that has all that information that Steve was talking about, you know, uh when to add, what to do, that that kind of deal. Um it looks like they also have a conference somewhere in February, kind of past that screen already. But anyhow, yeah, npconline.org is the website to go to. Uh, and of course, if you have any questions, you can contact Steve or myself and we'll be able to direct you or hopefully answer your question. Another topic that that we kind of want to touch base on today has absolutely nothing to do with chemistry or startups. But I was reading online on Facebook, there's a number of different groups that Steve and I belong to. A couple of which were actually admins for this one appeared, I think it was sometime yesterday morning, maybe the day before. There's a single polar out there somewhere in California, I forgot exactly where, who was interested in starting up his own retail business. But he wanted advice on how to compete against the big box stores and and you know, the full-blown distributors and things like that. So that brought up in my my hairless head an idea about competition. Is competition a good thing or a bad thing? I'll give you my perspective from a manufacturing point of view. That back when when I started, you had as far as test kits were concerned, you had obviously Taylor, you had Lamotte, and some other very, very minor ones that really didn't play play into Palin test, that was the other one. Those were the big three. And then along came people like ITS and a couple other companies that developed test kits, and then of course AquaCheck jumped right in and started doing all the test trips. So as far as I was concerned, competition was a good thing because it kind of forced you to one, make sure your product is is working well for your customers, two, that you're innovative to the point where you're constantly upgrading or adding something to your inventory in order to help your customer. And the other thing that I always found that was good is that I always maintained a very, very healthy, business-friendly relationship with all of my competitors. None of this bad mouth thing, you know, you know, two struct jung kind of deal. But if you develop and maintain a really good, healthy relationship with your competitors, I think it helps promote your product and their product to a degree. But it was a good thing. Uh, Lamont is one of our one of our sponsors, obviously, and we we thank them for that. Uh, but Lamont was a competitor of mine when I was in with Yellow, obviously. But yet I still knew all the people at Lamont, they knew me, good business relationship. The fact that they actually were located on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay from where I live, that also kind of helped too. But it it was a good thing. And and I can I can tell you all you know the friendships that I made over the years with all of my competitors, and it was a good environment. It made it good. And I do remember many, many times at trade shows and whatnot, people were kind of initially shocked that you know we were all so friendly together. They thought we would be at each other's throats all the time, and we weren't. You know, that's not the business of doing business. That's not what you should be doing. But they were and they complimented, they they say, you know, this is really good because that shows that you're really in integrated in into the industry very, very well. You know, everybody's got their strong points, everybody's got their weak points. And you know, to to beat up on a competitor just for the sake of you making a better sale or you're making a sale, it's not the right way to go. So as far as the manufacturer is concerned, obviously it's a different level, Steve, than what you what you work with, but it was always a good relationship. Now, that's between us, you know, Tuskit people. How it worked for other people, like you know, the the Haywards, uh all you know, all those other companies. I'm not really sure. I'm sure there's a little bit of, you know, boom boom, a little bit uh one. Huh?

SPEAKER_04 27:02

I think I think they're I think like from the manufacturers, they're obviously all trying to to be the best, but I can't tell you how many guys that I knew 20 years ago that were working for Jandy that now work for Pantare. So I think that from that level the competition is actually really good because then it allows you to, you know, if someone leaves and goes to a a different company, you know, for for more money, you know, that's a healthy thing. Where like and I'm not saying like stealing employees, but like from like from like a rep perspective and stuff, like all these guys are there's a ton of reps, you know. So they're always moving around and doing different things. But uh, I think that that's a a really healthy competition with with with that on that ass on that end of it. On the manufacturing end of it, I think they want to pound each other, to be honest, you know, but let let's be realistic with like you know, all these things going on, like there's a lot of uncertainty with all the tariffs and stuff that are going on right now, so everybody is very conservative, but you know, they're all making a ton of money because I don't know how much they make these heaters for, but it's it's not much, you know. Um, so so they're making a good profit margin on all of these things that they sell, so they're all really making a lot of money, and I think that they the compet I think that they look to have that competition out there, and they at least know who these people are, and you know, they get it, right? Like they know what they're doing. One of the manufacturers, I like sand filters, I talk about that all the time. One of the sand filters disc one of the manufacturers discontinued one of their like huge, like big sand filters, and one of the other big three manufacturers just came out with a new sand filter, and I went to the show and I was like, holy shit! I'm like, this is the same filter. I'm like, this is the same exact design. I'm like, has the same plug, same, you know, same everything. Um which is fine, but like, did they buy that from them? You know what I mean? Like, uh, did the patent run out? Like, I'm not really sure. And then there's like other things with like some of the company's heaters, like their patents have run out, and there's you know, you can go and get parts that are genuine parts and they're a lot cheaper. So is that kind is that kind of competition good? Oh, it's uh it, you know, it's if you're a service guy, it is, you know, if you're the manufacturer, maybe not so much, but it's just you know, both edge of the edges of the sword here. Now, from me, like from my perspective, Wayne on my business cards, like our slogan, like my company's slogan is that I'm the pool guy's pool guy. And I don't mean that like in a pretentious way or that I think I'm better than anybody else. Like, I literally, over my 10 years of my own company and 10 years of somebody else's company, all of the guys that I was always helping were pool guys, you know, like I've been teaching CPO since 2008. All the guys that call me are like that have you know problems that own their own businesses and stuff. Like, I'm really good with the guys that come through my class, like keeping in touch with them and helping them out when they have questions and whatnot. So, you know, to me, I look to it that like I want to partner with as many guys as I can out there because I want people to do good business, you know. And if you're not doing good business, you know, some guy tells me that he's charging, you know, $30 a stop or whatever it is, like I'm gonna tell him, like, yo, you can't do that. You know, like you're actually making the uh, you know, and it's on Facebook, it's so funny, right? Because you always see these ads that people put up and they're like, this guy's charging like X amount of dollars, like, how can anybody, you know, live on this? And then like the like floodgates open, and right, people are like, well, he's got 30 pools on the same block, or you know, whatever it is, but that type of competition is is shitty, you know, where you have these guys out there and they're not doing good business, they have a couple thousand dollars on a pickup truck, and now all of a sudden, you know, they're just out there doing pools, right? And they're they're not charging anything. And I think that that type of competition is the type of competition that we that we don't want to see out there. But, you know, again, like the guys that are out there that are single polers, like when I was single polling, I could charge a lot less than I need to charge now because I need to quantify that to I need to pay this guy, I need to pay our insurance, I need to pay his training, all that stuff. There's a lot of different things that go into it. Yeah, so I think that's are you looking to save money and grow your pool business? California Pool Association is your answer. Across the country, CPA members enjoy exclusive access to all sorts of discounted insurance. You get access to all kinds of coverage, like general liability, bonds, workers' comp, commercial auto, and more. Plus, members get wholesale pricing on equipment and supplies, as well as professional networking opportunities, all with no monthly dues. So, whether you're new to the industry or a seasoned pro, CPA helps you protect your business, cut costs, and connect you with other professionals. It's time to level up your business with California Pool Association. Learn more about how CPA membership can elevate your pool business at CAPoolassociation.com or give them a call. And if you mention the Talking Pools podcast or the promo code TALK Pools, they'll give you a hundred dollars off of your annual insurance cost just for listening to the Talking Pools Podcast. So go ahead and join CPA today.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

One of the things that I always reiterated when I taught class and I talked about this was that you need to learn how to set yourself apart from your competitor. Absolutely. What one thing or things do you do that uh either your competitor doesn't do or doesn't do well, um uh or charges, you know, some horribly low cheap price to drag you in and then you know you add things onto it. So you so you have to find your own value and and and and literally exploit that value in a good way. Um that will help you set yourself off from a competitor. So one of the people who responded to to his uh post uh I actually knew know the lady very well, she pointed out something. She said, like, if you're you're a retailer and you're trying to compete with, like, say against uh the big box stores, like the Home Depots, the Lowe's, you know, all that other stuff. How do you do that? And one of the ways that that a retailer can do that is providing uh water testing capabilities at their location. Now, how you set that up, how you do it, what you use, that that that's it, that's a you thing. That's that's not for me to tell you how to do it, but little things like that, you know, free water testing, maybe hold a um a seminar for homeowners. And I and I know a lot of retail, there's one retailer not terribly far from me. I know where it very well, used to teach him in Sunday school 30 years ago. And what he does is that he combines a little thank you, a pre-season thank you cookout that is actually a little class too. And you know, here's you know, it's beginning of the season, here's what we need to watch out for, uh, here's where we can help you, that kind of thing. And so it's it's a just a little, a little something extra that sets him him apart. And what he does is that he advertises free, quote, free water testing, but when when their water test is done, there's uh a fee on the bottom of the sheet, like whatever they charge, say 25 bucks or something for a water test. And what they'll do is that if uh the customer uses purchases their treatment chemicals from that retailer, they'll take the the $25 off or post it as a credit to the sale or something like that. So it's it's not money lost, it's money kind of redirected. But again, it's something that sets yourself off differently than than your competition. Recognize your value. That that's what's important.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

I think that opening a retail store in this climate is tough. Oh, and I do agree with you that definitely the water testing stuff will help, but I do think that like if you just had a retail store and like you're also not doing service, that like that's a killer too, because like now these people are coming in and they need a new pump or they need a new heater, right? So like you're gonna sell it to them, but like 95% of the people out there um aren't qualified to put in this pump, or not even to change the motor out or to change the heater out, like the electric is is there, you know, and you just need to change it. Like nobody's taking the gas line off and putting a new gas line on, even if it all matches up, you know. That's uh risky work.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

And that's why you develop those relationships, I think, retail level with the electricians, the plumbers, uh, the contractors, the subcontractors, things like that.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

But I was thinking more even from like the manufacturer aspect of it, like these retail stores, like you're gonna sell Pent Air heaters or Jandy heaters or Hayward heaters, you know. Uh, you're gonna sell these companies' stuff. I just think the hardest thing is the internet, you know, and we taught we go back and we talk about this all the time, but like I'm the type of guy where like when I have to go find something, I'm gonna look it up on the three different distribution websites that I have, and then I'm gonna go look it up on Amazon. And I want what I'm really looking to find is like the true retail cost. Because when you go and I'll use SCPs for, for example, for this one, um, because they have pool 360, you know, they that's pool corp, right? Like they're the biggest ones out there, but on all most of the items that you look at, when you look at their list price, it's a fake price. Like for a vacuum, like nobody's gonna for a robotic vacuum that sells for retail at Leslie's for $1,600 plus plus tax. You know, here are tax is crazy, so it comes out to like over $1,800. But like when you look at the list price of it, it says that it's $2,700. Like no one is buying this for $2,700. So I don't understand like why they even put that number on there. Like, what would be more helpful to us service guys is if you put like a real number on there, you know? But I have to go to, and I've said this before, but if this is your first time listening, like I always want to find the retail cost of this item, right? So Leslie's, you can't find all items at Leslie's, but Leslie's is great because they are a big box retailer. So that's the equivalent of like going to the Home Depot website and pulling up this PVC pipe that you need, and you can see how much it costs. And that's how much, like, you know, Mr. Mr. Customer and Mrs. Customer, if they came in and they bought this product, this is how much it would cost. And you know, am I basing it all the time on that price? Sometimes, not always, because sometimes you might be able to go on Amazon and find this price for you know, where it's $40 cheaper or something crazy like that, you know, and then you you can't because again, like what could happen? What could happen if you uh I know.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

And while Steve answers his phone, um, and I forgot my train of thought here. The thing with with list prices, uh I know from a manufacturer's point of view, yeah, the list prices are are nine times out of ten, not what you're going to pay for an item. I know that we talked about in previous episodes how district how distribution works, and the different channel of distribution you use defines what kind of discount you may or may not get from a manufacturer. So we had several different layers of of uh several different uh channels of distribution, and this is not uh sacred information, this is just common economic sense. The only people who would pay full list price for an item would be a homeowner if they ordered it directly from us. Okay. Now a distributor would take a look at the list price that we offered and will invariably use that price to resell to their customers. But the distributor will offer them a discount, whatever it happens to be, which is usually exceedingly less than what our discount would be when we would sell that product to the the um to to the uh the distributor. And then that's how they make their money. Okay, obviously. So it the list price the whole list price thing kind of really I I gotta chuckle about it because I keep thinking like new cars. If you ever go had to go in and buy a new car, what's the one thing you don't want to do is try to buy a new car based on the list price that's on the window? You go buy what what what are they called out the door price, I think it is, and and you you want to you want to know the bottom line number, you know, how much is this gonna cost me? You know, that that kind of you know, and that that's that's kind of list pricing in a nutshell, but I know there's a whole lot more to it. The whole thing with Amazon is I love Amazon to death. Thank you, Amazon. You've come through many times for me. But the thing with Amazon too is that remember, if if you have a customer, a homeowner, who buys, say, a pump, okay, I'll use that as an example, off of Amazon, unless they know how to install that pump, they're they're screwed because a service guy or gal is not going to want to install that because there's no warranty involved, because you didn't sell it to that customer. Or if the warranty is a little limited in in scope, that's an issue too. I I remember that when Amazon first came out and they first started selling pooled spot products, the big thing from service people was I'm not going to install anything that's been bought off of Amazon because they won't the manufacturer won't honor the warranty because you know we didn't buy it or that wasn't resold through a distributor, things of that nature. Now it's kind of um uh uh quasi-ary now. Some people do, some people, some of them do honor warranties, some of them don't. So yeah, I'd I'd like to get your viewpoint on this, Steve, as far as you know what you've had to deal with, things like like list pricing and warranties and all the with like warranties and stuff, man.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

That's that's a tough question because most of the time I I would say like, hey, like I'm not gonna install that for you. If we do, then I'm definitely not giving you like a warranty through me. You know, like I might if like a client is in like a bind and I know that like they're struggling like with financially or you know, stuff like that, like maybe I'd be like, hey, like why don't you just purchase it off Amazon and then I'll put it in for you, but you're not gonna get a warranty on it. Also, you have to see like where is this part coming from? Like, that's the big thing with Amazon, like who's actually selling it? Because a lot of the stuff that you could buy could be coming from China, or it could be coming from like an off-manufacturer, it could also be coming from swimmingpool.com. Are they honoring warranties on there? You know what I mean? It's uh it's it's just really a weird situation with that. And all of the manufacturers are really different. Like, I just had a light that I installed, and we installed like eight of them, and one of them didn't work. And they allowed me to like just go to the distributor and pick up another one, and you know, they didn't even want that old one back. You know, I was like, you guys want this back? And they were like, no, it's okay. But then, like in other instances, you'll go and here's the thing like if something happens, I don't want to be the I'm not warrantying it. I'm not a warranty station for for RayPack or for Jandy or for you know Pentair, right? Like most of the time, they will want to send out their guy to see what's up. So they can trace that sale back to where you bought it from the from your from the distributor. So like if they find out that you bought it on the internet or you put it in, like they're not gonna warranty. I don't think they're gonna warranty it for you. But a further step than that is like I really applaud Fluidra because they stepped in about five years ago and they were like, we're gonna make it so you guys can can sell. Um and they took all of their pricing off of the internet. Now, can you still like if you looked really hard, if you looked hard enough, like you could find different prices out there for their stuff, but it's not like Pentair or Hayward or RayPack, where like if you put in that model number, like boom, it comes up. And it's crazy, Wayne, because like when you price out a heater, like you can find the same heater for 2600 bucks, and you can also find the same heater for 5400 bucks, like just depending on like what website you go to and different things like that. And then I've had stuff weird stuff happen where like I can't find this part and I have to buy it from a retail website. And I've had that happen a few different, I've had that happen two different times in the last month because there's this one part with this one heater manufacturer, and they have like a thermal regulator, and they don't sell the little thermal regulator piece by itself. They sell it as like a whole kit that has like a brass piece to it because it's an ASME heater, and uh, it changes the price from being like this like little $20 piece. To being $340. And they don't have it. So I called the manufacturer. I was like, hey guys, like I need this part. And they were like, oh, like we don't, they're like, no one has it. And I'm like, nobody has it. So now I've had that, and they were awesome about it. You know, they they sent me the part, which was great. But like a lot of times you have these weird things happen where like you can't find the part, you know, and that's why it's so important that you talk to these manufacturers and you have a relationship with these manufacturers. So when something like that does happen, I had it happen with a with a flow cell on one of my automation systems last week. The thing cracked and broke. So we were able to just turn off the flow, you know, the in and out flow to give us a couple days. But we looked at distribution, zero of them in the whole country. So I called the manufacturer and I was like, hey, I can't find this part. Like, do you have one? And luckily, the rep, he was like, I'm in Orange County. He's like, Do you want to come meet me? And I was like, Jen. So last week while we did the show, Jen went and picked up the flow cell. Um, but he wanted one, he wanted it back, you know. So he was like, Hey, he's like, I took it off a demo. He's like, when you get the next one, he was like, uh, just you know, what the next time I see you, just give it back to me. And that's cool too. I don't mind that, but that also shows me that like the climate of everything going on right now, that they're very uh getting a bit more strict with like giving stuff away because like two years ago, they would just would have been like, here, keep it, you know, no big deal. Well, now they're asking for it back. And I'm cool with that. But that because he saved the day, you know. But at the same time, like if I didn't have these these relationships with these manufacturers, and they all have really good reps, you know. Like I love all the reps for for all of the companies that they have out there. It's just, you know, some of them are like really over the top with trying to help you out with with things like that. So I do really appreciate those people. And like I said, you want to solidify those relationships.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Right, exactly right. Yeah, and again, that's a whole value thing. What value do you bring to the table? And then do you know how to get things done? Or if you don't, do you know who to go to to get something done? But what are the next steps?

SPEAKER_04 46:55

And and um I think competition with that, Wayne, is big.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Like for them vying for like our business when they make relationships and stuff, like I've seen like in the past, because I felt like the last like year or so, like they've gotten a lot better with like, hey, you know, being really on top of it, where like I didn't have to go back and ask them like four different times for things. So I think that like from like an executive level, they want their reps to really make these relationships with you guys, you know. That's what they want because they don't want to lose you as a customer. No, they don't, they don't, you know, and that's I think competition there, like if they're losing customers and they find out like you've lost some customers and stuff, I think that that would be a big deal in a sense of like competition. I think that that's the biggest thing, like vying for your for your business. Because let's be on like not just in the pool industry, in anything, right? Like people are creatures of habits. So when you start using this stuff and you get comfortable with this stuff, like you're you're gonna be a repeat customer. And what they're looking for is they're looking for you to be a customer for life. So how can they bring you in for life? And it was the same thing with the with the test kit, right? With the test kit companies, like you want that person to be your test kit, you know, use your test kit for you know the the life of their career, you know, because if you get somebody to repeat by, that's where you really make your money, you know, on those repeat buys.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Yep, absolutely. Um and I I remember talking to too many people over the years now. I've used your test kit, you're the test kit I learned on, and that's the one I stuck with, or something like that, which is fine, but you know, that we all have our own little, like I said earlier, within the industry, you know, what we're known for, maybe not we're not so great known for, but there's there's always room. And again, uh for for me, it was um okay, again, not not new news, but uh when I first started with Taylor um back in the day. So this would have I started there in 91, so this probably would have been ninety-five, maybe ninety-six. The owner of the company then his his directive to me was I want you to be known in the industry as the Taylor guy. And I went, okay, and look where I am now. I think I think I kind of achieved that goal over the years a little bit because I, you know, um well, you know, you you've seen it at shows, people come up to you and go, Oh, yeah, you're you're Taylor. Well, if I was Taylor, would I really be here at the straight show? But uh yeah, and and it's true, and it's nice to be known as the as the person that you could call or contact to get an answer, and and an honest answer, too. And and I've told many people who would call or email, you know, if something that our test kit was doing wrong, I was honest. And I said, Hey, you might want to try this, you might want to do this, don't do that, do this, that kind of thing. And they appreciate it. And that that's from every level, homeowners all the way all up. So you you have to be able to know how to treat your customers right, how to make them appreciate you, how you can show them the value that you have as being their their person. Um, and that's what helps business grow and stay in business and and be competitive, I guess, is the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Um anything Yeah, so back on uh back on to like uh to service guys, right? Like, how do you you you start your service company, right? And you you wanna you wanna be competitive, but like you have no idea what the other guys are are are doing out there, you know? So I don't I'm not saying that I've ever done this and I've never had to do this because like I know what I need to make. So like I don't base my pricing off of anybody else, I base it off of like what Sherwood Pool Consulting Group needs. But at the beginning, you're like, okay, am I charging too much? Am I am I not? Like you can call another company in the area and you just be like, hey, I'm a homeowner and I have a pool and it's this big. Like, do you guys have a standard price for that pool? Or like uh do you need to come out and see it or what?

SPEAKER_05 50:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

You know, and like they're either gonna say, they're probably gonna say, like, hey, like it's based on blah blah blah, or we start at, you know, yada yada. But like you have to make sure that you're you're you're making enough because a lot, you know, at the beginning, a lot of times like you're just not covering all of the things that you need to cover. And again, with everything going on with pricing right now, like you have to make sure, like I just sent out a proposal for something, and I literally said this price is only good for seven days. Like, there I can't do it any other, I can't do it any other way now. Like 14 days, 30 days, it's way too much, you know. And I talked about this a couple shows ago, but like get serious about it, you know. So, and just if you don't know like what the competition out there is doing, like, do you think that Hayward doesn't know the pricing of Pent Air? Like, of course they do. Like they are, you know, they know exactly because they don't want to lose on a margin, you know. So if you're just getting into the business, like you really need to either partner with with another person or like find out, you know, like what people are charging and stuff and what I'm charging for me, like might not work for you, you know. And again, like I'm not trying to get all of my clients. Like, I don't want everybody that calls. You know, I want to find out first where you live, if you're a good fit for us, you know, is everything gonna work out? Like, not everyone's gonna work out for me. But again, at the beginning, I was taking everybody because I needed the money, you know, and not to shift gears, but I did want to talk about you know, one other thing that we when we had first started, just about different classes that are out there. So now you start this pool up and you're taking care of this pool, and now you have this weird shit happening. So, how do you identify those that staining and when the pool is crying and you know, calcium's coming out or there's weird stuff going on with the plaster? Like, is that you? Is that the person who did it, the you know, who trialed the pool, who resurfaced it? Like, how can you figure that stuff out? And there's classes also out there that you can get for that. And I think one of the, you know, one of the best ones that I've been to is the you know, Jack's Magic has that certified stain specialist class. Right, that's really good. And that really goes over like, hey, it shows you a picture and they're like, this is modeling, and this is why it happens. And you know, it could be from this, it could be from this, or it could be from this. And you know, they do try and sell you their product at the end and say, look, if this is the thing, like this is how we can fix it, and you can fix it with Jack's Magic stuff. So they're not like you don't have to buy anything from them, but they really do go over, you know, kind of from A to Z, exactly what you have to do and identifying stuff and you know, having their reps, like I actually started working with them and they one time called me and they were like, Hey, like we have a pool, can you go out and look at it for us? And I was like, Hell yeah, I can, of course. You know, like thank you, thank you for sending me out. Um, and a lot of times, like you go out to these jobs and you're like, I know what's wrong, but I don't know when it happened. And you can't really, so that's why like a lot of homeowners, they'll be like, We want to sue this guy.

SPEAKER_05 53:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

And to be completely honest, to sue someone over a surface, it's really, really hard because unless you have documentation of a picture of them putting too much calcium in the mix, or you have readings that show that it went up 50 parts per million every day, you know, that's not gonna go well. And again, like sometimes these surfaces might cost, you know, let's say $10,000 or something like that, right? Like, so now it's a $10,000 thing. Like you go to a lawyer and you're like, hey, you know, come to court with us to sue this guy. And he's like, okay, cool. So my retainer is $8,000. And you're like, is it really worth it to do that? You know? So it's so, so super important on your end to be able to help these people I identify the things. And I can't tell you how many people have called me out and they've said I say to them, like, what are you trying to do here? Like, what is the end goal? And like the end goal is like, do you want to get this redone? Do you want this person to admit fault? Do you want them to do it for free? Like, like, do you wanna, would you be willing to split it with them? Like, what is your thought process here? Because when someone starts to have someone come out to look at the pool to see if they're gonna sue someone, you know, like these people don't really, the homeowners don't really know what's going on with this. And if you're the pool guy and they're bringing you out to like, hey, like what's going on with this, like they might point the finger at you, man. Right, right. If you're the pool guy, so you need to be able to identify these things and say, hey, I know exactly what that is. Like, let me educate you, Mr. Customer, a little bit on why that happens and you know why it's not realistic for you know us to sue the the builder or the person who resurfaced the pool. Like that ship's kind of sailed here. Now, is there sometimes where it's like an obvious thing, like the rebar is coming through the surface and it has it's been less than five months? So you know what I mean? Like uh sure, then maybe they didn't do it you know thick enough or whatever, like then it's then it's a problem. But like I said, these classes are gonna be you know really paramount for you guys to do that. So, you know, starting up the pool and the staining of the pool all the way through like you taking care of it and them handing it off to you, and now you're the service guy. Again, documentation is gonna be so so super important because it's the only thing that's gonna be able to, you know, nobody remembers what they had for breakfast last Thursday. There is zero chance that you're gonna remember the alkalinity of this pool on day six, you know, for on the startup if you uh if you if you didn't write it down.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

Right.

SPEAKER_04 56:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 56:31

So with with any kind, yeah, like you can't not keep a record of of what it is you do, why you did it, that kind of thing. And now it's easier because we have these stupid little cell phones that you can put all that information on. Back in the day, you might write it on a index card. Um we hope to God the pen doesn't fall in the water, Andrea. Running joke between talking pools. I think we've we've hit pretty much everything we wanted to talk about today. Um, Steve, do you have anything to add before we kind of sign off to everybody?

SPEAKER_04 57:03

No, like I said, just to go over everything, that that NPC startup card, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna print out that card and bring it with me today. And then, like I said, I'm Jack's Magic. They have like a certified Steam Specialist book where you can, you know, if you take their class, they'll give you the book. And they also on their website you can see it too. And then uh also thanks to our sponsors, California Pool Association and Lamotte Testing Company. You guys are great. Thank you for sticking with us. And I think in the next couple weeks, we're gonna have a special guest coming on, Wien, right? So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 57:31

Trum roll. Yep, yep. It will be fun, it will be interesting. In fact, that there might actually be two at the same time. You so you might see four faces on your screen during the podcast. So again, thank you, everybody. Like Steve said, we really appreciate you listening to us. If you have any questions, comments, suggestions for topics, send it to talkingpools at gmail.com. We'll go ahead and and and take a look at everything. If we use your your thoughts um online, we'll send you a little thank you gift. We appreciate that as always. Let's see, anything else is happening? Nope, nope, I don't think so. That's it. So, guys, take care. Have a good one. Be talking at you next Thursday. All right, take care. Bye bye.