Peter & Lee: Salt Systems Down Under

Peter and Lee talk about salt systems and some of the differences between American and Australian systems.
Thank you Rob, for sending us your question!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:53

G'day folks, Peter here. Welcome back to Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pulls podcast, where I am joined today by the lovely Lee from over the other side of the country. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Hi Peter, good thank you. Hey everyone. And um Shane's not with us tonight.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

No, he's getting some much needed beauty sleep at this time of day.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

We're actually recording this later than our normal schedule, so yeah. Paul Shane is uh well I shouldn't say Paul Shane because he's actually enjoying some slumber after a very busy day, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yes, late finish for him. Uh I did about 12 hours today. Um, how's your day been?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Um actually not too bad. Travelling back home, so I've been away for the last couple of days um up in Canberra, and um so yeah, towing the caravan home today in the rain, which wasn't much fun, but got here safely, and that's all that matters. So back to the grindstone now.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yep, get to it. Anyway, we had a question from a listener. Uh Rob Matthews, who is in Florida, he tells me he's about 20 minutes away from where Rudy lives. He contacted me on Facebook Messenger. Uh now I must say, please send any questions to talkingpools at gmail.com. Uh I'm not good at checking Messenger. And and it should go through the proper email address. But nonetheless, we will answer his question. He said, I would love to know what the most prevalent brands of assault systems are down there. He then sent me a couple of photos of an ecomatic system. Uh that's what we call chloromatic over here. More on that later. And he said, I have a couple of these, and from memory I thought they were Australian. They are not new, but they seem to last a damn long time. Yes, Rob, they do. Uh we've still got that same model. That model you've sent us is the ESC36, which I'd put at about 20 odd years old. Uh, I've got a lot of those on my customer list. We are replacing some of them because 20 years is a long time for any appliance, if you want to think of it like that, to uh to last. So, Lee, might be some differences between your side of the country and mine. So, I think we'd both agree that the most prevalent type of chlorinator or brand of chlorinator is Astral.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yes, I would agree with that. Um, Astral is quite common in our area, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah. They I know over here they did very, very well uh a few years ago getting all the pool builders on board, or most of the pool builders on board. Um and that really is key. A lot of technicians will go out to a pool, they find the chlorinator needs a part, all of us find it needs a part, we'll buy the genuine product typically. If it needs replacement, a lot of people will just buy the exact same make and model, so there's no pipe work or anything to be done. Uh not always my approach.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yep. I agree. You've got to go for quality, not what's easy.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Yep, quality, user friendliness and serviceability. Uh for me over here, Western Australia, WA, we often joke that that well not really joke, it means wait a while. And quite often when we're waiting things for for supplies from you guys over on the East Coast, yeah, we have to wait a while. So local spare parts, local support from the manufacturer, uh, and of course that good relationship with the supplier on the ground over here. Um Astral has a lot of their chlorinator technology that they took over from HELCON, particularly the VX series when uh they bought when Astral or Fluidra, whoever it was, bought out HERLCON. And we are still seeing a few HERLCONs out there, but they're getting old.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah, and they were a really great uh long-lasting quality unit. Um, and certainly Astral, when they took over HELCON, um, took those products on and continued to run with them. And and basically the cells are a very similar design today as they were back then, though I do I do remember they tweaked them quite a bit in the casing. They had a problem with their casing initially with leakage and and whatnot. I think that was under the HELCON label. And yeah, so they've evolved, um, but certainly very popular. And the um other Floridra brand, Zodiac, there's quite a lot of those out as well. Um, over the years, Clearwater Chlorinator were bought out by Zodiac.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

And Zodiac was bought out by Floridra again. Um, the transitions of brands over the years, and yeah, still a very good quality um product, but um probably surpassed by the Astral One still.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah. We don't see a lot of Zodiac branded chlorinators over here. There are some, uh, but not a huge number. Uh, we do see some of the clear waters. What we don't see though are brands that you have over there like Watermade, and I I can't say I've ever seen a Watermade chlorinator. I remember seeing an advert for them back in the 90s, I think.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Well, Watermade were one of the original brands, from what I understand from when chlorinators were brought out. So the chlorinator was an Australian invention, and it was invented in the 1960s and came to market in the 1970s, so it has been around for quite a while now. What's that 50 years? And so, yes, as much as Australia and New Zealand love to fight over who owns what, New Zealand, sorry, you don't own this one, it's definitely Australian.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

And hang on, hang on, hang on. They like to say that they invented the Lamington and the Pavlova, but they didn't invent those things either, they're ours.

unknown 7:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Well, Shane's not here to back that up this time, so that's why I'm saying it. Uh well, it's a one-sided argument here because we've got two Aussies and no New Zealanders, so we we win this argument.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Yep, let's let's go with that.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

So, yeah, there's lots of lots of brands over on the east coast um that you probably don't see that much of over west. The uh some of the older brands are well, Clear Water that was brought out by Zodiac, is obviously one of the stalwarts of our industry. Then you've got Aqua Joy, Saltmate, Watermade, yeah, some long-lasting labels or or brands that have been uh making these salt water chlorinators for decades.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Aqua Joy is one I've never heard of before. You mentioned it.

unknown 8:08

Really?

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Uh yesterday. Aqua Joy, I I have no memory of that brand at all. Uh they're just not a thing over here.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah. So they've they have been around. I look, I would hesitate to guess and say something like 25 years at least. So yeah, the I remember when we started in business 25 years ago, clear waters were everywhere. Um, clear waters and especially the old brown series. Um there's still a few cells being floated around, but I really haven't seen a brown series in years. And if somebody thought to replace a cell on a brown series, they're crazy. The boxes are so old. Uh, I think they stopped manufacture over 20 years ago. So, but they never they don't make things like they used to. Like our I get that. Our listener has brought up a chlorinator and said this particular brand, the Ecomatic, has lasted 20 years. Like, that's awesome. I wish we I wish we had more brands these days that lasted that long or at least could be repaired affordably, because I think we're going down the wrong path with being such a throwaway society. But that's another argument, probably for another day.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

It is. Uh definitely. Um incidentally, Shane and I once did an episode where we focused on recycling in the pool industry. Because I I don't like seeing too much on going to landfill. So when when I replace out a chlorinator, I'll take the transformer out for recycling because there's a lot of copper in it. I'll take out the PCB. Any of the wires go in a separate bin that we've got just for wiring and cables and stuff like that. The cell goes into mixed metals as we take it apart and the screws come out, they go into the mixed metals. Um a lot of chlorinators have either a steel case or some of them have an aluminium back half of the case. So all of that stuff can be recycled.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

And do you have a metal merchant that you're able to get some dollars back from for those things?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Oh, a good amount of beer money on that. Not going to get rich on it, but A, I don't need to pay for tipping or or disposal. And B, it does bring a little bit of money back. Um that I get to sit on my high horse and say, aren't I wonderful? I recycle.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yeah, it's being environmentally responsible. Good on you, Peter.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

It's about the beer money, Lee. It's about the beer money.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

We don't say that.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

I'm so concerned about the environment. Um, I think I think it's a a good thing to do. But the Ecomatic that Rob sent the photos of uh over here, that's the Chloromatic, which is a Western Australian brand started by John French. We I think in the 70s or 80s, a very long time ago. Uh, we've my family business when we manufactured fiberglass pools, we did thousands upon thousands of their chlorinators. Um they traded under the name of Monarch Industries, later became Monarch Pool Systems, and we're still seeing chlorinators out there that are 20, 25, even 30 years old that are still working.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

They are a tough unit. You open one up, the insides are often corroded out, stuff that it still wants to work, it still produces. But they do start to to fail. And I mean that's it's a long life for an appliance. Um Monarch got bought out about 17, maybe 18 years ago, I guess, by Davy. Davies has since been bought out by Waterco. Uh Davy kept the chloromatic brand going, and they'd call it the Monarch Series, uh, basically because it was well known in the market over here. Don't see a huge number of Davies out on the field. The other predominant brand here would have to be pool controls. And again, that's partially probably because they're made here in Western Australia. Uh pool controls originally made the Chemie Gem, which was a chlorine and acid injection system. Uh then they ventured into the world of uh salt water systems. Uh and I've dealt with them for 30 plus years. Um I do like some of the features on their designs. Um I do like that they're very serviceable. Uh I mean if you need to replace a user PCB with a display on it, it's a three-minute change out. So I I do like that. Uh and most of them are fairly quick.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

And you can actually change their LCD screen without changing the PC board.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Uh actually you can on the pool controls, yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah, because I've actually done that repair myself. See, I am handy on the tools, Peter.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Excellent. There's no reason why it shouldn't be. Um, so that's a um uh a well-established brand over here.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, we see a few of them on the east coast, probably more from the feeders. Um chlorinator's not quite as strong because there are so many brands available on the East Coast in the chlorinator market. But um yeah, I have we have sold um and installed um a few of their Gemini systems, which were the um acid feed and um acid feed and control, and then they control the actual chlorine output of the salt water side of the unit. Um, they were quite good, very good in um semi-commercial environments where they could actually maintain the the chlorine level and the pH level for a semi-commercial pool, like a small um unit complex or condominium complex, as they call them in the US. Um, so yeah, they were they were a very handy unit that allowed you to have the benefits or the uh the easy maintenance of a saltwater pool, but still have the automation and that balancing level uh or adjustment level on that ORP reading from the the feeder. So they were a good unit, or they are a good unit, they're still in existence.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Oh, I've got quite a number of them on uh uh on our customer list. Uh they've also got the SWC range and the XLS or XLM, meaning X extra low salt or extra low mineral, and they're available with the option of a peristil pump for the acid feed, but it doesn't use a probe. It calculates via an algorithm how much acid is likely to be needed, but they do require monitoring. So a big problem here with some of the pool builders was when the sales rep would tell a customer, this is an automatic system, you set it, you leave it, you never have to touch a thing, it takes care of the chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Three months later, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Three months later when their pool's going green, uh or if they're they jump in and their eyes start burning out of their skulls, they call and they say, Well, okay, it's not balanced. Oh, but I've got an automatic system that takes care of all of that. No, you don't. Uh that was a big struggle I I had when I was selling pools, because I would tell people, look, this is how it actually works, and they'd say, Oh no, but four other people have told me it's fully automatic. So, well, fine. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

My golden rule with those things, with any feeder and doser or automatic controller, is that they are designed to maintain, not to achieve. So if the water goes out of balance. Yeah. If water goes out of balance really badly, this unit is not designed to bring it back into balance. It's designed to balance maintained waters water, just like really a robotic pool cleaner is designed to keep a clean pool clean. Yeah, it won't clean up a really badly dirty pool filled with leaves.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Mind you, I've done that. I've done that.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

I've done it with um ash from a fire. Actually, they are sensational. One day I'll show you my photos. They're just cleaners made a huge made a huge difference um in our ash cleanups when we dealt with those fires on the east coast a couple of years ago. They were really good. But yeah, they're designed to maintain, not to achieve. So when you expect um that much from a a feeder and doser, it's you're going to be sadly uh mistaken.

unknown 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Or sadly disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Oh I'm going to use that line. That's that's very good. That's that's actually a really good way of putting it. Um but in recent years we found a couple of other things. We found a lot of smaller brands uh coming up and things like Reltec. And I mean I'm a big fan of Reltec pumps. Uh I think they make one of the best pumps on the market here. Um, I do a lot of them. They're also a direct swap over for the plumbing on most astral uh 40 or 50 millimeter pipework. Uh bit different. They do have one actually that's a direct swap over for their 65mm Byron. Uh for our American friends, 40mm is inch and a half, 50mm is uh or millimeters is two inch, 65 would then be two and a half inch. Um but reltech buy their chlorinators sometimes from others. For example, I mentioned pool controls, they have a chlorinator that is simply a pool controls model that's rebranded. Waterco uses they do their own chlorinators. Um we don't see a lot of Waterco chlorinators over here, which I think is a shame because they're a very robust unit. With them, they'll get their acid feeder from pool controls. Uh Pentair also has a chlorinator that's a pool controls model, again rebranded. I think that's under their stay right label. So uh and there's another funny thing. We don't see a lot of Pentair or Haywood chlorinators here.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

No, they're very much, I suppose, more American market um unit, but we don't see a lot of them. I can't recall ever seeing a Haywood chlorinator or a Pentair chlorinator on a pool. Not in our area, and again, we are a remote, somewhat remote area, but they've never been prevalent with our pool builders, so it's not something that we commonly see. The big thing with um any chlorinator that I'm looking at selling in my shop or installing from my customers is I'm looking at backup service and warranty from the suppliers. So I'm looking at what um what's the longevity of the warranty, what's the availability of the backup spares? And I think the thing is when we've got a a huge choice of manufacturers in Australia making an Australian invention, um, it would be silly not to take advantage of that when all the components and spare parts are all readily available in this country. So um that's that would be my take on it. Plus, if if if we're importing obviously the Pentair units or the Haywood units, if we're importing them, then they're going to be subject to those import um costs and dollar fluctuations and all of that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yeah. Haywood, I can think of four customers with Haywood chlorinators. Um two of which I've changed out because they just stopped working and and just repair wasn't really spare parts availability was an issue at the time. Uh, don't know if it still is. Uh, that was one particular model. Then there was another model. I've got two customers with them. Uh one of them has the PH and ORP control on it. Uh, he's constantly struggling. I keep with maintaining that. I keep telling him if you want regular service, then we can look after that. We can maintain it, not achieve it. Um there's another one I've got where it's starting to be a little bit it it doesn't have the ORP and PH control on it, but it's starting to be a little bit irregular or erratic in its production. So again, quite a few years old. Uh I'm not talking 25, 30 years old, I'm talking, I would guess probably around eight to ten years old. Uh I've done inspections on pools where they've got haywood. Uh maybe two, maybe three of those, but they're just not a common brand here.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

No. No, then they're not. Um, but I think regardless of what brand we choose to go with, it comes down to the relationship. Like you've mentioned, you've got a great a good relationship with pool controls because there's something that's easily accessible to you, you've got access to spare parts and that backup service, and that's so important. So, regardless of who any of us choose as our supplier for chlorinators and and any really, for that matter, any equipment, it's all comes down to the relationship between the supplier and the retailer or the the service technician and and knowing that they have uh that they have a company that's prepared to stand behind their products, whether they be local or imported.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah. My go-to chlorinator is the cl uh chloromate. Not chloromatic, chloromate. And that's made by the same people who make the naked system. Uh they market it's or actually it's I believe also made by the same people who market as uh Vapua in or Vapua or whatever it is in New Zealand. And uh first of all, their warehouses, their distributors' warehouse is five minutes away from my house. So I don't know how many times I've called the wife and said, Right, jump in your car, drive five minutes, get me a half a dozen of these for for the next three days type thing. Um I've dealt with their manager, uh Alan Fernandez. Must be at least 25 years. And this is I think what we both like about a good supplier, about a great supplier. I had a problem with a display on one of them. Customer called me, his unit would be installed, I think about two months. And he said, Oh, the L C D display isn't working properly. I flicked him uh and he sent me a couple of photos. I flicked these photos across to uh Alan, uh the chloromate guy, and I said, Have you seen this before? And he said, No. He went out there, swapped it out with a with a new display and mailed the dis the old display that was faulty to the manufacturer so they could look at it and see if there was a problem that we could expect. Now I've done must be hundreds of these. It's the only time I've seen that problem. But that's the sort of response I like from a supplier.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Absolutely. None of us like dealing with warranties. Like one, there's no money in it, but two, we've sold the customer a product that is not doing the job. Whether it be a minor thing or a major thing, it really doesn't matter if if it's if it's failed in some way, shape, or form, it reflects badly on us as the as the seller and as the recommend, like it's something we've recommended to them. Um and so we just want it dealt with. That's the most important thing. And please, as suppliers, if you're listening, don't please don't tell us that oh we've never had this problem before. Oh because we don't hate that. We don't want that, like that's it's the biggest I want to say bullshit. Um we just want the problem dealt with. We want it acknowledged and we want it fixed, and just as our customer does. And if you want us to keep selling your products, then we need to know that the products that we've got that are coming after that aren't going to do the same thing again. We need to have confidence and faith in the products that you're selling us, and you need to be prepared to stand behind them, and that's all any of us want from a supplier.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah. Uh, I mean, one classic example of that is one robotic cleaner supplier told me that oh, there was water in the motor. I've never seen that before. This particular brand, which shall remain nameless, although you can probably guess who it is. There are constant problems with water getting into the motors. That's the first time I've heard of that. Well, but you said the same thing two weeks ago when I reported the last one to you. So yeah, I'm with you on that. We want results, not excuses.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Just as our customers want results, not excuses from us.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah, yeah, very short. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah. Uh also seeing an increase in Therolux brand, not just chlorinators, but their entire system. Uh and I mean I know they'll use the Waterco Opal um uh cartridge filter. They'll use pumps that are quite often Reltec rebranded. They'll use uh what are their filters? I think it's uh same as the Bonger Penta Leisure Time sand filter. Um but they're rebranded there. But they we are seeing more of their automation systems and chlorinators, particularly when they've been supplied by a pool builder. Uh and we're also seeing some in synergy. Well, we did see some in synergy systems a couple of years ago, but uh they've basically left Western Australia now. I don't know if they're still doing anything over East.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, InSynergy are still um going, still manufacturing. Um I know that they did have some initial problems, but I have heard that those problems with their chlorinators have been rectified. So um it's not a brand that we saw a lot of down this way, but it is something that is um has been popular with the pool builders. I think they were actually quite popular with uh I think it was Leisure Pools, the fiberglass pool builder, that's um pretty strong on the east coast.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

They made an attempt on the west coast, didn't last very long in WA. Um there's a story about when they came over that uh is probably not probably best not discussed privately when they uh publicly, sorry, when they um came to my swimming pool display centre, and um uh I j I just thought there was a little bit of an attitude about them. And um yeah, didn't go didn't end well. Uh it ended with me basically saying F off or I'm gonna call the police. Um but let's not go into that.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah. Well we don't know Andrea edits that bit out. There's no there's nothing um worse than over-promising and under-delivering. So um, and I think this goes across all suppliers, of course. Um, and even for uh operators like ourselves, don't over-promise and under-deliver. You're just going to be digging a hole that you're gonna fill it fall in. So getting back to the initial question of cells and the longevity, how long do you reckon the current market cells are actually lasting, Peter? Because I've seen over 25 years, I've seen cells last eight, 10 years in bygone years, but now they certainly don't seem to be lasting that long.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

The longest I've personally had one was 14 years, still going very strong. That was on my own pool at home. Water chemistry was always maintained perfectly. I got rid of that when I demolished the pool along with the rest of the backyard. Uh ready to put a new pool in and building story from hell. Um but that was rare. That was a pool controls sell. I'm seeing generally at the moment the better brands will last from eight to twelve years.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

You're still getting that long out of them.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

If the water chemistry is maintained, water chemistry is critical. I was I was speaking with Terry Hunter, who's one of the owners of pool controls, and I said to him one day, I said, you know, I would guess that 90% of problems with saltwater chlorinators are caused by bad chemistry. And he said, We actually keep the data on that. It's 95%. 95% of saltwater system problems are bad chemistry, and I have no reason to doubt that. Now there are some products I don't mind buying aftermarket, for example, some of the skimmer and pump baskets, some of them are just as good as the original. Uh, some of the cartridge filters elements, some of those aftermarket is the same as or sometimes even better than the original. I would never supply an aftermarket chlorinator cell unless there's no genuine available. Uh, I've had some, for example, pull right where you have a pull right chlorinator, but the cell is no longer available. So that has to be aftermarket or sell them a new complete chlorinator. Aftermarket cells will often sell for about no pun intended, sell to sell, uh will often sell for less than half the price of the genuine product. But I find they last about a quarter to a third as long. I've had aftermarket sales that customers have bought online, and they say, hang on, why is this failed after a year or a year and a half? Well, because you're a tight ass, you bought some crap online, not quality. And where they seem to skimp, oh I have actually said that pretty much verbatim just pick your targets. Right? Um where they seem to skimp is in the coatings on the cell plates because that's the expensive bit. So yeah, I I've got a few customers out there at the moment, and they insist on aftermarket sales, and I just say I'm not going to put my name to one of those. I'm just not going to supply one. If you want to buy it online, go for it, install it. We'll carry on as normal with servicing, but please don't cry at me when it stuffs up.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

I have seen some of the um, let's say, aftermarket sales that have had, I think, up to a five-year warranty on them. Now, I'd love to see, knowing that I agree with you, there's not always the quality in some of those aftermarket cells. Actually seeing people claim back the warranty on them. I've obviously haven't had to deal with it because it's not something that I sold a lot of, similar to you. I always went for went for genuine where wherever possible. Um, but yeah, it's there's always excuses and loopholes for um people to not honour warranties sometimes. And water chemistry is one of those.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Oh, 100%. We were chatting the other day about calcium in fiberglass pools. Uh that is something we can make a complete episode on its own about.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Absolutely. Um I actually, interestingly, I did have a salt chlorinator manufacturer many years ago actually tell me that um there like that there was a um a limit on the calcium level in the pool that or that could be in the pool for their cells so that you didn't avoid the warranty. And I think at the time it was something like 200 parts per million, and which I thought was ridiculous. Yeah, quite crazy. So, and then I've had another one mention to me about the about the um pH level, and now we all know that a high pH makes chlorine less effective. Like I completely understand that. So the a high pH makes calcium played out, so is that where that comes into play there? I I could only assume, but they don't often I just find they don't explain themselves well, they just are looking for an excuse, and I think education is absolutely paramount with all of the retail, like if a supplier is selling something to a retailer, they need to explain this is where our product will work to work at its optimum, this is where you will get the longest or the longevity out of it by maintaining within these parameters. If we know that, as we were saying in the last podcast, if we know better, we will do better. Yeah, but without that education, we can't improve on the information that we're giving our staff, on the information that we're giving the customers to get the best out of their products. So I just think um, yeah, it'd be nice to know those sort of things up front and not have to go searching for them.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah. And I don't think it's only education, I think ethics also come into it. You know, like the pool builders who say, Oh, we'll set it up, leave it, it'll take care of everything. No, they just want to close the deal. And I get that, they want to make the sale.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

It's the old fabric of you don't have to touch a pool, you like they're all self-cleaning these days. Don't touch it, don't do anything. So that's one of my pet hates.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Oh, that as well as when and we hear this from some suppliers, when they degrade another one of their competitors' products, oh that's a rubbish product. As soon as somebody says to me that the product they are trying to sell me is good and these are the reasons why, yeah, I'll listen. As soon as they take the approach of, oh, you need to buy ours because theirs is rubbish, no, they've lost me. I I have literally walked out of I was looking at buying a car a few years ago. Uh with my truck, there was a guy I've got an Isuzu truck, and there was a guy at a different truck company, uh, and he said, Oh, you're looking at Isuzu and Hino and whatever else it was. Oh, they're just rubbish, you don't want one of those. And I said, Well, for the last ten minutes you've been telling me how rubbish the others are, you haven't told me a single positive of yours. Why would I buy something if if you haven't got something good to say about your own product and all you can do is bag someone else, why would I go with that? Um ethics is a big part of it for me. I like to sleep at night.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Oh, years years ago, and this is what happens when you've been in the industry so long. I actually did have a sales rep who was a bit like that, and um used to come in and and say, Oh, you shouldn't sell that or whatever the case was. And funnily enough, the product that he badmouthed was the product he ended up working for 12 months later.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I had that very, very same thing. Man, we're going back probably 20 years and we could be talking about the same person.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

No, I'm only joking, you're on one of the things that we're gonna say about Yeah, you're you're on the wrong side of the continent.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Um yeah, the that very same thing, it was a let's just say it was the argument between on chemical feeders, it was an argument between solenoid valves and porastaltic pumps. And when he changed employer, when you changed company you worked for, he he came in one day and he says, Oh no, no, I I was wrong. I I now think this is the best I now know this is the best way. And I said to him, mate, you you were arguing, you were getting red in the face arguing uh to support your side. Just don't. No. So um yeah. One anyway, Rob, I hope that answers your your question. Uh I hope you've heard of some of these brands over there. Uh obviously the Astral and Pentair or Fluidra at least and Pentair and Haywood you would have heard of.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

But um here of um AIS, which are who are now in the US. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Yeah. See a few of those over here, the occasional one. Um I will never understand why they came out with a chrome series. Why you would have a polished chrome case on a chlorinator that's generally outside, reflecting the sun and blinding the hell out of us, I will never understand. But I suppose I don't know, maybe it looks cool or retro or something.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Uh I have to say, I think something similar of everything that's black, like all the black pumps and that sort of thing. Like obviously it's a very common colour and everybody does it. But black attracts the heat, and these things are all plastic.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Do you know why?

SPEAKER_00 38:47

So why?

SPEAKER_02 38:49

The pigments are more UV stable.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Oh, okay.

unknown 38:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

That's what I've been led to believe.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Uh black is so it doesn't make it degrade actually faster as you would think with black. It's actually making it degrade slower.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, UV stable on the colour. That's what I've been told by I don't know, three, four different manufacturers. So I'd like to see some science on that actually. Uh it'd be an interesting one. But that I understand is the um the reason. Uh I had one guy tell me, Oh no, you want black because it doesn't show the dirt so much. And that's an interesting thing where with pulls, people say, Okay, uh does a light like a car, again, does a light colored pool, car, widget, whatever, show the dirt more, or does a black one show the dirt more? And my response is always what colours your dirt? That's kind of what it comes down to for me. Well, yeah, if you've got white dirt, it's gonna show up more on something dark. If you've got dark dirt, it's gonna show up more on something light. So that that's always been a scratch my head kind of question for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

But all good pool equipment should actually be installed undercover.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yes, it should. Yes, it should. And I have this argument many, many times with people, especially when they say, Oh, my chlorinator is only ten years old and it gets full sun for nine hours a day in 40 degree heat, or you know, that's at 104 Fahrenheit, and sun blaring on it, and why why is the display starting to fail after 10 years? Well, yeah, you're lucky you got that long out of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, absolutely. It's like we look after the water to look after the equipment um or to look after the pool. So it's no different than actually putting a shed over your equipment to help it stay out of the weather and and last a bit longer. And and it's like a car. If you park a car out in the and the street, it's gonna um show the weather faster than if you park it in a garage. So just common sense.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

That's why after close on 30 years out working in the sun, I look as old and worn out as I do. Anyway, moving right along. I think we've talked enough about this. That's 40 minutes on the recording.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yeah, Rob, I hope that answers your question. Um again, listeners, feel free to send your questions, your queries through talkingpools at gmail.com, and Rudy will then send it to the best, most suitable host to answer your particular question. Lee, thank you so much for joining us. Or joining me tonight. Um it's just about bedtime for you over there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 41:55

It is 10.30 pm, so yes, for those listening in America, um Peter is on one side of the country, I'm on the other, and then Shane's actually in another country altogether. So between us, I think we've got about six hours of time difference, haven't we, Pete?

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Uh I think it's five at the moment. Uh for me right now it is 7 30 pm. For you it's 10 30, did you say? And for him it would be half past midnight.

unknown 42:28

12.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

So, yeah. So uh trying to to pinpoint a time that's suitable for all of us is not always easy.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

No. No. Always a challenge. Anyway, you have a fantastic week.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Always easiest for people. I'm digging in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Well, I've done recordings at I've done recordings at 5am. I did one recording once where I started at 5am. Um I mean I'm I wake up at 4am anyway. So that day was just recording rather than paperwork. But um, yeah. Anyway, you have a fantastic week. Have a good sleep. Go to bed. Good night.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Thank you, you two. Alright, see you next time. And we will catch everyone again next week. Bye guys.