Pool Talk: Alchemy, Alum, Asbestos, and Ghostly Encounters

Welcome to the latest episode of "Talking Pools," a lively podcast where hosts Rudy Stankowitz and Andrea dive into the nitty-gritty of pool maintenance, industry insights, and beyond. In this episode, Rudy shares his extensive experience with the use of aluminum sulfate in pool cleaning, emphasizing its effectiveness in removing cyanuric acid without leaving harmful residues. He discusses the specific conditions under which aluminum sulfate is most effective, such as pH levels and water temperatures, providing a deep dive into the chemical nuances of pool maintenance.

Further enriching the discussion, Rudy touches on a variety of topics, from the use of asbestos in chloralkali cells for chlorine production to his adventurous escapades in haunted locations and abandoned sanitariums. The episode takes an engaging turn with Andrea's contributions, including her battles with allergies and her thoughts on industry practices.

What sets this episode apart is not just the pool talk; it's the chemistry between Rudy and Andrea. Their banter is interspersed with technical discussions, personal anecdotes, and a bit of humor about the less glamorous side of pool maintenance. Listeners will find a blend of technical advice, industry updates, and personal stories that make "Talking Pools" a must-listen for professionals in the pool industry and anyone interested in what goes on behind the scenes in pool maintenance. Whether you're in the industry or just curious about the science of pools, this episode promises insights and entertainment in equal measure.

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Transcript

Rudy (00:00.147)
best part because we're using aluminum sulfate I know everybody's like oh who wants to add metals to the water that's why I didn't look at things like iron that's why I didn't look at a way to get copper out before it actually stained the pool surface I didn't want to add more of a metal that was not easily removed when you use aluminum sulfate if you do it correctly and you do have a good vac to waste the aluminum level in the water

is removed in that vac to waste because it's tied up in the aluminum cyanurate, my theory. But definitely with the aluminum hydroxide flock, you're actually taking the aluminum from the water when you do that thorough vac to waste following this process. And we know this for a fact because we have tested the water for aluminum following this procedure.

because we did not want to leave an aluminum content. We didn't want to come up with something that left a metal content in the water. So we are testing it. And what we're using as a guideline, the EPA has a secondary.

Require secondary. It's a secondary something shit

The EPA has it listed as a secondary contaminant, meaning that it's something that they really don't monitor, but they're only worried about it with drinking water for appearance and odor of 0 .2 parts per million. In any of the tests we've done following, it's always been zero to less than 0 .2 parts per million. As long as it's been done correctly. I don't know what it would look like if it wasn't done correctly. We didn't go out of our way to do it.

Rudy (01:44.755)
to do it wrong, but these are the results that we've been seeing.

Rudy (00:00.452)
when they pull the water from the reservoir to treat the drinking water, one of the first steps that they do, they use a dose of 100 parts per million of aluminum sulfate. Okay, great. 14 % aluminum is aluminum sulfate. So that gives us a 14 part per million level of aluminum in this body of water by adding 8 .33 pounds of aluminum sulfate per 10 ,000 gallons.

Little bit more than you would use in a green to clean in a green to clean. We were normally around 4 to 6 pounds per 10 ,000 gallons, depending on how bad it is. So we went up. So I started experimenting with different doses and I didn't want to go beyond what water treatment centers use, so that doesn't mean if you add more that it won't drop it more. I don't know. I just didn't want to give that direction to use more than they were using in water treatment. Fine.

Adjust your pH to 7 .0. A lot of people think that flock works better at a higher pH. Not necessarily the case. Aluminum sulfate will flock between 4 .5 pH up and through eight and change for pH. The difference is the higher the pH, the more product you need and the longer the time that it takes. So going with the high pH actually forces you to need a larger dose.

And it does take more time. I like 7 .0. If I went lower, it'd probably work better. But again, I don't want to give the instruction to go lower than 7 .0 neutral. I don't want people to get in the habit of dropping their pH down and downwards of six or what have you. So that's why 7. So again, if we went lower, could it reduce the level more? Maybe. I don't know.

7 .01 pH, 8 .33 pounds per 10 ,000 gallons. Total alkalinity should be 80 to 100 parts per million, so shoot for 90. Water temperature has to be better than 70 degrees. So there are a lot of conditions to this.

Rudy (02:14.308)
Adjust your filter so that the water bypasses it. If you have a DE or sand filter, put it in recirculate. If you have a cartridge filter, take the element out, reassemble it without the element. Allow the system to operate for two hours after you have broadcast that dose of 8 .33 pounds per 10 ,000 gallons. Then shut to off. The next morning, come out, slow vac to waste.

This is what we're seeing. This is what's working. Now, how exactly is it working? That's not been confirmed yet. My theory is that it's similar to copper cyanuret. This we're familiar with. If we have a high copper level and a high cyanuric acid level, you'll see reddish blotchy purple staining on the walls and floor of the pool in actual little tiny crystals that have precipitated out that look like amethyst.

This is copper cyanide. It's metal complexation. Copper actually pulls the cyanide acid from solution. It complexes, it becomes a new compound, and then it precipitates out, and that's what sticks to the walls and floors of the pool. So looking at aluminum sulfate, having that content of aluminum to it, I decided to see if I could cause a similar reaction, and I believe that's what we're doing. We're creating a flock, but...

we're also creating, in my theory, aluminum cyanide, another metal complexation, a new compound that does also precipitate out. But I think it's actually expedited because we're also producing that aluminum hydroxide flock, which is settling it to the floor of the pool. So that's what we have going on there, which I'm really excited about, that they were able to confirm.

that it's working a laboratory first lab we can actually get to do it because I'll tell you what people in the pool industry people outside the pool industry look at the pool industry as a very very small niche there's 10 million pools out there that is not huge potatoes they want something bigger so nobody even wanted to touch it even when I offered to pay them

Rudy (04:32.068)
So five years later, OnBalance takes a look at it. Boom. Now the folks out on the West Coast have an additional tool in their arsenal that they can use when they are in drought restrictions and have a high cyanuric acid level. So this way they can get that corrected without draining half to an entire pool, losing just a few inches of water, but a significant drop in cyanuric acid.

Rudy (00:00.092)
adding aluminum sulfate in a dose equal to what the municipalities are adding to water when they pull it from the reservoir is dropping out cyanuric acid. How much? Our results were showing 50 % on balance was able to get 25%. This is after considering the amount of water lost in the

vacuum to waste process. So we took that into consideration. We were getting 50%. They got 25%. The difference, I don't know. I can't tell you. But confirmed that aluminum sulfate will remove cyanuric acid. How are we using it? Again, that same dose the municipalities use. We're raising, well, we're not raising shit. First thing we do,

Here's how the process works is very very similar to a flock that you would do if you were taking a green to clean. It was very similar to a flock.

with that.

Rudy (00:01.45)
So here's the deal. Asbestos diaphragms are used in a specific type of electrolysis cell called a mercury cell chloralkali cell. These are used in the production of chlorine gas, sodium hydroxide, which is also known as caustic soda, and hydrogen gas. Here's how it works. In the electrolysis process, in the mercury cell chloralkali process, a brine solution, sodium chloride dissolved in water, is electrolyzed.

The electrolysis occurs in a cell that contains a mercury cathode and a graph, the electrolysis occurs in a cell that contains a mercury cathode, a graphite anode, and a porous asbestos diaphragm that separates the anode and cathode components. At the anode component, chloride ions from the brine are oxidized to form chlorine gas. This chlorine gas is collected as the primary product.

At the cathode compartment, water is reduced to hydrogen gas and hydrogen ions. The hydrogen gas is collected as a co -product along with the chlorine.

Rudy (01:20.522)
The hydroxide ions produced at the cathode combine with sodium ions to form the brine sodium hydroxide, also known as caustic soda.

Rudy (01:38.538)
The hydroxide ions produced at the cathode combine with the sodium ions from the brine to form sodium hydroxide, which is also known as caustic soda or lye. The sodium hydroxide solution is collected as another co -product. The asbestos diaphragm plays a crucial role here in the process by allowing the passage of ions such as sodium and hydroxide ions while preventing the mixing of chlorine gas produced at the anode with the other products that are generated at the cathode.

This separation is necessary to maintain the efficiency and integrity of the electrolysis process.

Rudy (02:33.834)
And right now, this is the only thing that asbestos is being used for in the United States where it's been legal, everything else has been banned. Here now, they've given them a date to get rid of this stuff. Here now, they've given them a date that they have to...

Rudy (03:00.618)
Now they have a deadline in which they have to get rid of the asbestos diaphragms as well. No more asbestos use because of the potential, because of the dangers to health and safety. Now they've been given a deadline to get rid of this stuff because of the dangers to health and safety for the workers.

Andrea (00:00.318)
Okay, I might have to like turn it up in a second. I'll turn off my microphone if I do that. Um, so hey, welcome to Talking Pools. This is Andrea speaking and Rudy speaking over me.

Rudy (00:04.654)
Hoo hoo hoo, turn it up!

Well, that's all day. That's all day. That's all night. Hey everybody, it's Rudy Stankiewicz with the Talking Pools podcast. How are you today?

Andrea (00:21.714)
Oh my god, that was so loud. My head is so congested. I don't know if you can hear my voice. It is me. It is Andrea, but I sound like I have toilet paper stuffed up my face, which I don't.

Rudy (00:24.302)
Hahaha

Rudy (00:31.664)
You sound-

I was gonna say you sounded like you were in a submarine.

Andrea (00:37.866)
A submarine, okay. Well, yeah, so you were just echoing, cause I have an earbud in so I can hear you. And so that just, I feel like the sound felt like when you ring a bell, you know, and like, and it vibrates, your voice made the hole inside of my head vibrate.

Rudy (00:56.91)
Aw, that's the nicest thing anybody said to me today. That would make an awesome hallmark card. Your voice makes the whole inside of my head vibrate. Bumper stickers, we could go the whole nine on this one. Hey.

Andrea (01:00.572)
You alright?

Andrea (01:08.775)
But I, you know what, I like it. Maybe that's gonna be my new sign off. If you hear me coughing, I apologize. I'll try to mute myself, but if I start coughing, I apologize in advance. It's an allergy thing. I've been through a lot of pollen these last couple of weeks. And, uh...

Rudy (01:12.886)
And your voice makes the whole inside vibrate. Wow.

Rudy (01:27.342)
pollen sucks

Andrea (01:28.922)
Yeah, it's not, I'm, it's, I can still taste things. I, it's not COVID. I don't have fever. I'm not like, it's not a stomach, it's just head congestion. It's not even a cold either. It's just my sinuses and shit.

Rudy (01:40.826)
Yeah, but pollen should be done by now, shouldn't it? I mean, usually it's pretty much the first week of April and it's out of here.

Andrea (01:46.282)
It's pretty much done, but I never get sick while it's happening. I always, it always affects me like when the pollen kind of goes away. Either that or it was Amy. Thanks, Amy.

Rudy (01:56.958)
Amy Lemieux, one of our avid listeners, Amy, who is also super awesome person, great pool service company down there.

Andrea (01:58.451)
Yeah.

Andrea (02:05.322)
Yes, Amy is delightful and she, if it wasn't the allergies, it was Amy who got me sick. So thanks Amy. I'll just say it was the pollen though.

Rudy (02:14.723)
So, hey, I was thinking the other day, we did the interview with Danello, right, about doing the mosaics, and he's the master mosaicist, and he mentioned at the end the bizarre thing he didn't want to talk about, but then he eventually did bring up the bizarre thing where he had to actually create mosaic pieces of people in the nude. What do you think the frequency is that he's asked to augment it slightly? You know, like, hey buddy.

Andrea (02:19.115)
Yes.

Andrea (02:30.72)
Oh, that's right.

Rudy (02:41.658)
Can you throw me an extra tile?

Andrea (02:45.122)
Probably a lot. You know, it's funny is there's a, when I first started cleaning pools, I heard about this property and I never got to go see it, but my mom knows about it. She can tell the story. My mom was there and cleaned the pool. It's a statue, like a, like a metal, whatever bronze. I don't know what kind of metal they use for these statues. And she's made of metal and she is, it's a woman laying on her back with her legs.

spread open, completely, fully nude, and evidently there's more detail than you would need necessary in a piece of metal sculpture.

Rudy (03:25.891)
Is it a fountain?

Andrea (03:28.602)
Pffft! Hahahaha!

Rudy (03:28.931)
I mean...

Andrea (03:33.37)
It should be.

Andrea (03:39.687)
Sorry, you're gonna have to call the-

Rudy (03:42.466)
Welcome to the Talking Pools podcast. We are glad that you're here with us today's gonna be one of those days Apparently it's been a minute since we've recorded we've had some stuff going on. I Fell off a mountain you guys heard this story But apparently things come and get you later on just when you think you're clear You're out of the woods all of a sudden by you You're laid up. So I've been having this neck arm thing

Andrea (03:53.494)
Ugh, sorry.

Andrea (04:00.579)
Mm.

Andrea (04:05.026)
Well what the hell were you doing on a mountain?

Rudy (04:07.906)
I went up there to explore because I was in Athens and I could go around and do all the normal sites and in fact I did but then they have these beautiful mountains and then they also have this unique haunted history. So there's a haunted cave. The Vellis cave on Mount Panteli. Supposed to be haunted. I think that's around 700 meters high. Went up there, explored the thing, checked it out. Really super cool. Didn't see any ghosts but it was a fun thing to do anyway.

Andrea (04:16.674)
Was there a pool there?

Andrea (04:21.07)
Yes. No pool though.

Rudy (04:37.038)
Then left there and went a little bit higher, no, different mountain, broke into a sanitarium, crawled through the basement, broke into this thing was built in the 1920s, they shut it down, 1940, it was built for tuberculosis, but they came out with penicillin in the 1940s. I do what I do. And they, so penicillin comes out in the 1940s.

Andrea (04:43.874)
broke into?

Andrea (04:53.622)
You trespassed?

Andrea (04:58.618)
Oh my goodness, we don't advocate for that, don't trespass.

Rudy (05:01.05)
They shut the hotel, they shut this not hotel. They shut the sanitarium down. It was a sanitarium. They shut the sanitarium down and then it reopens in 65 as a hotel. It goes 20 years, but they close it because of odd experiences. So this sucker has been tightened up since 1985. I found a way in. I thought the rest of the people I was with were coming with me. So I'm inside and I turn around to talk and I'm by myself. And I'm like, holy shit. Okay, I'm gonna do some ghost hunting in here, right?

Andrea (05:17.934)
Mmm.

Andrea (05:25.91)
Oh my gosh.

Rudy (05:30.854)
Because why not? But then after a few minutes...

Andrea (05:32.046)
I lost you.

Rudy (05:41.849)
Can you see me?

Andrea (05:55.326)
I have no signal!

Andrea (06:53.334)
Well, I don't know what to do.

Rudy (09:43.661)
And what a pain in the ass that was. I don't know, it took a minute, but here I am. So anyway, so.

Andrea (09:44.87)
Hey, Mar. Was that you or was that me?

Andrea (09:51.162)
Sorry, I turned my WiFi on. I don't know if that was me or not.

Rudy (09:54.653)
Okay, maybe, I don't know. But, so I'm walking through, I hope the first half of this recorded, otherwise this is gonna make absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever, right? So I'm walking through the bottom of this abandoned sanitarium, and I get through, right, that I broke into, and I'm thinking ghosts, right? But after a few minutes, now, here I am on top of a mountain in Greece in an abandoned sanitarium that I broke into. If I can get in, surely somebody else can. What if there are deranged homeless people in here?

Andrea (09:56.255)
Go ahead.

Andrea (10:08.49)
that you broke into.

Andrea (10:24.739)
Or animal? Well, are there animals there? Probably not.

Rudy (10:26.145)
That started to worry me. I wasn't worried about animals as much because animals are animals wherever you go, but here I'm thinking Okay, what if I get attacked person gonna come at me is gonna be speaking Greek at me. I'm gonna talk to him I'm not gonna know what to do So now I'm actually with a sense of urgency trying to find an exit and then did ultimately leave but super cool and I got some cool video of it too and I had a good time, but After that

Andrea (10:40.467)
Thank you.

Andrea (10:50.642)
When did you fall?

Rudy (10:53.589)
We went a little higher on the mountain, 1400 meters out in front of this little church, and I stepped on this slab of marble, and it must've been slick. My feet shot right out from under me, and boom, right on my back. From the lumbar all the way up to where your neck meets your shoulders. That's about as big as the slab of marble was, and that's what hit this full force. Ouch! I jumped right up to my feet, and all of a sudden I just couldn't move. At all.

Andrea (11:16.819)
Cool.

Andrea (11:21.053)
Oof.

Rudy (11:22.365)
not without severe pain. So they managed to get me down the mountain, wanted me to go to the emergency room, but I'm like, I'm in Greece, I'm not gonna spend it in the emergency room, I'll tough it out, so I did. And it slowly got better, but never perfect, and seemed to isolate my lower back. When we flew back into Orlando, stopped at one of the dock in the boxes for them to check it out, do my due diligence, they didn't find anything, head at home.

Andrea (11:26.167)
Yeah.

Rudy (11:53.801)
You saw, did the trade show. Within a couple of days, that's it. My neck, my shoulder, my arm fucked up. So I had that going on.

Andrea (11:56.746)
Mm-hmm.

Andrea (12:02.374)
Well that's...

Andrea (12:06.193)
Uh oh.

Rudy (12:10.637)
You just cover the screen for some reason? What are you doing? Obscene shit? Now you're gone.

Andrea (12:13.97)
I'm just gonna do it again. Oh, there you are. Nope, here you are, I'm here. It's just a really bad connection. Here you are. So let me recap for myself because that was a very choppy story for me. You broke into a sanatorium in Greece that was on a mountain and you were fine. You didn't have anything happen to you. Fun fact, isn't there a difference between a sanatorium and a sanitarium?

Rudy (12:20.029)
Here you are. Well, you know. Here we are so.

Rudy (12:33.33)
Yes, yes, yes

Rudy (12:39.681)
Yes, correct.

Rudy (12:45.033)
Yeah, I don't know. There's a song.

Andrea (12:46.338)
I think there is. I'm going to look that up. Thirdly, you know, it blows my mind that these people think that it's a good idea to turn former medical places into a hotel. Like that just, I mean, it's crazy. Like it's, it happens a lot. Like there's, there's a famous one in some, one of these Northeastern states in our country here. I, it's, it's crazy.

Rudy (13:03.186)
I know!

Andrea (13:16.21)
What was I going to say? Oh, so then you went to a different, you went to the next mountain over. Are they like connected? Did you, or did you like jump? You don't have to go all the way down and then all the way up, right? It's like.

Rudy (13:25.525)
I didn't jump. No, you have to go down all the way down and all the way up. Athens is surrounded by mountains, but there's like three big ones. So it was kind of cool. So you did have to go up and down, up and down. Then yeah. And plus then the Parthenon, that's on a mountain itself as well. So you have to, but that actually had stairs built in, you could climb.

Andrea (13:35.326)
So you have to go all the way down before you can go up the next one.

Andrea (13:45.562)
Okay, so now this piece of marble, did you slip on it? Like, was it slippery? Or did it shift? Or did you stand on it and it shifted?

Rudy (13:48.088)
Yes.

I believe so. It could have shifted. I stood on it and my legs shot out from under me and hit square in the back.

Andrea (14:00.902)
And you landed on your ass? Did you land on your butt like you were sitting? Oh.

Rudy (14:02.729)
I landed on my back. No, the stone hit. I was, it hit my lumbar to where my neck meets my spine. The rest of me was off the ground. So I hit and bent. That's why they were thinking whiplash and all other kinds of shit.

Rudy (14:21.309)
Actually what they said was, is they think that I had an old neck injury, which is possible because who knows, I've had multiple concussions in my life, there's been a few bad car accidents, a couple where I've gone through the windshield, plus then I've been thrown through bar tables, whole bunch of fun stuff. Could have been from anything. I didn't know I had a neck injury, but they're saying it looks like there was one, and the fall re-aggravated it.

Andrea (14:21.543)
I see.

Andrea (14:46.151)
just broke it again.

Rudy (14:47.981)
Yeah, pretty much.

Andrea (14:50.27)
Gotcha. So it kind of like loosened up all the scale that was holding you together. All the, all the.

Rudy (14:53.873)
Can't believe it's the sanitarium that you're excited about not the haunted cave That was super cool The sanitarium was cool, too, but that's where I was afraid. I was gonna get attacked by some deranged Greek person

Andrea (15:00.091)
Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Andrea (15:08.85)
Well, because the sanitarium you weren't technically allowed to be in.

Rudy (15:12.313)
Correct. And the cave is not monitored. Nobody cares what you do.

Andrea (15:18.534)
Hey, speaking of, so let me just change the subject a little bit. Speaking of haunted, this isn't a cave, but I know a story of a haunted pool. So you know how I'm like always looking out for that stuff. And we know about the Queen Mary and we know about the naked ghost that I told the story of. Well, I heard about another haunted pool. That's right. Okay, so there was apparently a serial killer.

Rudy (15:32.021)
Right.

Rudy (15:36.765)
in South Africa.

Andrea (15:45.754)
I'm not going to get into his whole story because honestly, I've only heard, I've never heard of this guy and I only listened to the story one time. Basically he killed a bunch of gay people, you know, he would take them back to his house and then murder them and it was gross and things, gross things happened. And he had a pool where he apparently committed most of these murders or like tortures or something like that. And what...

Rudy (16:12.945)
In the pool.

Andrea (16:15.962)
in the pool and in the house, like all over the property. So one of the things that

Rudy (16:17.321)
Okay. So, being in the pool was torturous. They must have had a skim around.

Andrea (16:25.258)
They must have had what?

Rudy (16:26.937)
Skim around.

Andrea (16:29.462)
Oh, no, I mean, it was like he was torturing them in the pool, like murdering them in the pool.

Rudy (16:34.113)
like, dra- waterboarding them in the pool, drowning them, holding them underwater, pulling their head back up, pushing them back under, that type of thing. No? Hmm.

Andrea (16:38.93)
Well, no. No, no other types of things that I'm not going to get into. And if you want to listen to the episode, it's the last, it's the last podcast on the left and I can't remember the first name that Hirsch bomber Hirsch bomber. All right. Hold on. Let me look it up real quick because I won't be able to move on until I do. Just give me one second. It's already up on my thing here.

Rudy (16:55.865)
Hirschbomber. Hirschbomber?

Rudy (17:01.993)
Unlike the movie Night Swim that came out, which I thought fell short, a lot of people liked it. I think it was a beat. Okay.

Andrea (17:11.158)
I didn't see that. Okay, I got it. Here's the name. Ready? It's it's Herb Bowmeister or Bowmeister. So I Said Hirsch Bomber. It's pretty much combining the it's It's a bowmeister. It's a combination of the guys first and last name Anyway, the haunting at follow at Fox Hollow Farm so if you want to listen to what this guy did to these people in

Rudy (17:17.933)
That is nothing like the first word you said.

Hirsch Bomber, it's Herb Beaumier. Murderous swimming pool killer.

Andrea (17:37.65)
the whole episode then go ahead. There's part one where they talk about all of his crimes. The second part was all about the hauntings because what they were saying is that most where is it? Hold on. I think it's

Rudy (17:43.149)
Where is this?

Rudy (17:46.829)
Where's this?

Rudy (17:51.574)
I think we should go there.

I want to test the pH. I want to see if the pH is different in haunted pools than regular pools. It's not a chlorine pool, it's a haunted pool! Ha ha ha.

Andrea (18:04.982)
It doesn't say it doesn't say where it is in the description of the episode So I'll have to get back to you on that one. But anyway her bowmeister. So what they were saying was that

Rudy (18:06.486)
I don't use chlorine. We've got ghosts.

Rudy (18:12.045)
Okay.

Her bone my this sounds like a serial killer name doesn't it does

Andrea (18:18.598)
Yeah, so serial killers, like when they commit these crimes, normally the properties are torn down or demolished and something else is put there altogether. This place, though, was never torn down and somebody owns it and like people lived there afterwards. So that's what they were saying. It's kind of a unique situation because the property still exists. Well, yeah, there's that.

Rudy (18:27.577)
Mm-hmm.

Rudy (18:36.717)
Hmm like

like the house at 112 Ocean Avenue.

or Lizzie Borden's house. Lizzie Borden's house I stayed in beginning last year. Yeah, there's not a lot of them.

Andrea (18:48.146)
They said it's rare. Yeah, but like, no, yeah. So they were saying like Jeffrey Dahmer's place got, was torn down. Um, John Wayne Gacy, like all that shit was torn down. So anyway.

Rudy (18:58.625)
Yeah, but didn't they find bodies under one of their houses?

Andrea (19:04.07)
I think, I think, I think Gacy, they found bodies buried all over the place. But that was the thing with this guy too, with Boemeister. They also found bodies and bones and shit, because he would, after he murdered them, he would burn the bodies and then like try and break the bones into as many small fragment pieces as he could and then just spread them all over the property.

Rudy (19:04.257)
Was it Dahmer or Gacy or?

Rudy (19:11.373)
Okay.

Rudy (19:26.321)
And you don't know what it was exactly he did to them that involved the pool or you do and you just don't want to say.

Andrea (19:36.198)
I can't remember right now because I listened to the first part of the episode like two weeks ago. So I can't really remember exactly but it was like sex crimes, torture stuff, like weirdo stuff. Kind of like what Dahmer was doing. But anyway, the pool is haunted. And they, so there was people swimming in the pool and they felt hands reaching around like their necks and like pulling them under the water and it was, it was pretty crazy. So.

Rudy (19:50.723)
Mmm, not good.

Andrea (20:05.03)
I think I'll do like a, I'll listen to the thing and do a little bit more research on the pool itself. And maybe we should go there because that would be pretty cool. I don't know where it is. I'll find out though.

Rudy (20:05.133)
That is insane. Yeah, seriously.

Rudy (20:12.985)
to the one that yeah, without all that stuff happen. That's a little, that's a bit much actually, but I'll go, what the heck? So, sir, this came out on the cover, Service Industry News, five years in the making, on balance, you know who on balance is, right? The folks at on balance, Q Hells, Kim Skimmer.

Rudy (20:35.699)
And anyway, they were putting our alum cyanuric acid removal theory to the test. They actually have a lab. They're the first lab. Well, actually, I had another manufacturer tell me they tried it didn't work. I was like, what?

I don't think they really did. I think they were just trying to bury it because not a lot of people like change and not a lot of people like new things that come out. And a lot of people, especially people that sell specialty chemicals, don't like things that come out that can replace what their products do. So it's not just the lowering the cyanuric acid. Of course, you know, when you add alum to a swimming pool, it also drops the phosphates. You get rid of the phosphates as well. So maybe that had something to do with it. I don't know, but in either case, the folks that on balance,

Andrea (21:16.074)
Correct.

Rudy (21:20.565)
They're concerned about the West Coast and during the times of year that there are drought restrictions and there's different things that they have to be able to do to the water that normally would involve us draining and refilling in a high cyanuric acid level one of those things. The other thing, high calcium hardness level. So they have actually figured out a way chemically to reduce the calcium hardness level. That works. And we.

have figured out a way to lower the cyanuric acid level with a chemical that works. So this way, even though they lose a teeny bit of water when they're draining to waste, they still have a chemical here now that they can use in these scenarios. And again, the thought process, don't everybody wing out on me, that that's not the best way to go. It's not the best way to go. I'll tell you that right off the bat. Draining and replacing water is absolutely the best way to go, unless you live in an area where you can't. And that's where I came up with this.

I was looking for something that could help the people on the left coast during those periods where they have water restrictions. You can't drain and refill a pool when you have water restrictions. Right? Why do you look so confused? So anyway, yeah, it's been proven. It's been proven that they on balance at their lab had found that yes, indeed, aluminum sulfate did lower.

Andrea (22:33.306)
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's totally cool though.

Why do I word?

Rudy (22:49.158)
Cynric Acid.

Andrea (22:52.615)
Yay!

Rudy (22:52.801)
We can all, I'm happy it took five years in the making. I had somebody threaten to sue me. I had a bunch of nasty phone calls. John Poma, who was one of the people in the field who was accumulating a ton of raw data. He had a lot of pools he was trying this out in for me. And he even started getting nasty phone calls as well. Trust me, from manufacturers, people in the industry do not like to see change.

Andrea (23:15.804)
Oh really?

Andrea (23:23.654)
Yeah. I mean, it's understandable, but... Well, it's really kind of hard because the signal's really bad, so it's like jumping in and out, so I'm doing my best.

Rudy (23:25.869)
You got nothing, do you?

Rudy (23:33.869)
Well, I'm happy because of a couple of things. One, it is a very low cost solution. You can get a bag of alum, aluminum sulfate, earmarked for water treatment centers, and SF60 that runs you about 30 bucks for 50 pounds. So you're talking about less than $1 a pound. We're using it at a rate of 8.33 pounds per 10,000 gallons. That means, yes, it does take.

an addition and then have to wait overnight and come back. You'll be on site probably a total of 40 minutes doing this, but you're talking about less than $5 in chemicals in most cases. How frigging cool is that? I'm super excited.

Andrea (24:16.218)
Yeah, well hopefully now it'll be easier for people to find that distribution and shit, because I know I can't get it here. Everybody looks at me like I'm crazy when I ask for it.

Rudy (24:22.445)
That's the thing. Nobody carries it and they should. They used to carry it a lot. And then what happened was back in the 80s, this blue liquid stuff came out and people said, hey, you know what, alum is overkill. You don't need it too much, makes a mess. Use this liquid stuff instead. So people started using that and that worked a polymer-based clarifier. And that's what people used for many, many years. And now, you know,

we're starting to recognize the benefit of some of the things that were some of the things that we used to use because there are a lot of things that left the shelves not because they weren't safe but because somebody found a way to make another product that was much more profitable for them than this

Andrea (25:13.204)
All right.

Andrea (25:23.138)
Okay. I think that's better. I moved closer to the fucking building.

Rudy (25:28.609)
You asked me about the asbestos thing. That's done now. All those companies, they have to get rid of the asbestos, correct? Asbestos in the manufacturer of chloralcholine for the production of chlorine? You didn't ask me about this. We came up last year, we were talking about it, and we were saying that we were thinking it was gonna happen. Well, it looks like now the Environmental Protection Agency has said, yep, I don't care if you make chlorine or not.

Andrea (25:34.858)
about what existed.

Andrea (25:42.483)
I didn't ask you that.

Rudy (25:57.781)
You need to get rid of that shit and what they and what they use the asbestos for is kind of like a bladder in between the liquid and the chemicals in the manufacturer of the chloralcholine and then the liquid itself, so apparently They're saying that it's going to seriously Fuck up the price of chlorine Which no doubt if they have to change the way they manufacture it. I can't imagine that it's true But here's the thing probably not something you're gonna see this year

because they've been given up to a dozen years in some cases to be able to phase this out before it's finally okay, enough said, you gotta get rid of it.

Rudy (26:42.413)
So, any disruptions in the supply of liquid chlorine? I wouldn't expect to see any. You can't hear it. Can you hear a thing I'm saying?

Andrea (26:42.968)
asbestos?

Andrea (26:53.019)
I moved so now I can hear what you're saying but I didn't hear the very beginning of what you said. So I'm a little bit lost but now I fixed the problems.

Rudy (26:59.533)
So initially, I'm talking about the chloralkali problem with the asbestos ban in this country. Last year, they announced it. They said they were gonna make it done deal, no more asbestos for anything. We use it in the industry and the manufacturer of liquid chlorine. In fact, anybody in the country that uses liquid chlorine for anything, they're using this product, asbestos, as a filter, it's a diaphragm membrane, like I was...

I'm trying to say in between the.

Rudy (27:35.509)
Whatchamahusets. So anyway, so now they need to shift the whatchamahuset. So they need to switch to a non asbestos-based diaphragm or membrane technology in order to produce liquid chlorine, which they currently don't have. So all of the manufacturers are gonna have to change the way they're doing this and asbestos is super cheap. Now, initially they were given two years to phase it out. Now that the law is actually coming to play and it's a done deal.

Andrea (27:38.446)
Oh, the Whatcha Moo Who's It, got it, now that makes sense.

Rudy (28:02.785)
they have up to a dozen years to phase it out. So will it affect the cost of liquid chlorine this year? Probably not.

Andrea (28:11.186)
Maybe next year.

Rudy (28:12.585)
maybe next year, or if they're smart, if they're smart and they can play well with others, what they should do, and this is the way that we don't have a liquid chlorine crisis, is they take turns.

They all have to do it by the end of a dozen years. If they all wait till the last minute and do it all at once, you're fucked, no chlorine for you. I know, trichlorine cal hypo. Yeah, remember what happened last time? One of them went away. The other two eventually went away too because it put too much pressure on those manufacturers to try to keep up. So if they wait till the last minute, everybody's gonna be screwed. But if the major manufacturers start doing it one at a time in different years, we should not see that.

Andrea (28:34.964)
Oh, I see what you mean.

Rudy (28:56.001)
major hiccup that we saw during Puele-Mageddon following the apocalypse, not the apocalypse, the pandemic.

Capiche. Hand. It was something in him. It do they shut down the whole planet? Weird shit. Tell you what, that's some scary stuff. So anyway, what do you think about?

Andrea (29:05.586)
panpocalypse the pandocalypse

Andrea (29:16.85)
Yeah, and you know what? I was listening to another podcast that came out right after 2020 and just listening to them talk about how they thought things were gonna be and like, oh, everything's gonna go back to normal. Like, guess what? It never fucking did go back to normal. But anyway, I just thought that was funny.

Rudy (29:32.097)
now. But I think some benefits came out of it.

Andrea (29:35.25)
There's- we still don't have 24 hour Walmarts, like what the fu-

Rudy (29:39.757)
But we did become more of a virtual society, which some people can argue is bad, but there's a lot of advantage to it as well. So it did bring us a step forward as far as that goes. I don't wanna discuss whether the virus was real or not, the injections were needed or not. I don't wanna ever talk about that. I have my opinions, you have your opinions, and I know all of our listeners have their opinions, but just the mere fact,

that it shut down the entire fucking planet. Everything was closed, everywhere. Wow! That shit only happens in the Avengers. Sorry, Earth is closed.

Andrea (30:20.99)
Hehehe

Rudy (30:22.393)
Remember? So anyhow, there's that. What do you think about, do you see the thing about the alligator in that pool upstate New York?

Andrea (30:25.475)
No, I don't think I saw that movie.

Andrea (30:34.267)
No, in New York?

Rudy (30:36.521)
Yeah, New York. Apparently the guy had it up there for about 10 years. He kept it in his swimming pool. Very tame alligator would let the neighborhoods kids come around, play with it, take pictures with it. Unfortunately, last year, he, they wouldn't renew his permit to keep it. So they came up and took it and it was a big old blind alligator that lived at this house. All right. So those mother fathers,

Andrea (30:49.83)
Is there such a thing?

Rudy (31:05.685)
at the double tree in fucking Houston. Talk to me.

Andrea (31:12.69)
What? The double tree?

Rudy (31:14.265)
Easily easily the most horrific fucking thing to happen in our industry maybe right there with the schlitter bomb But that poor little girl that family

Andrea (31:22.726)
Oh, see, that... Okay, I get it. I'm sorry. I did not know what you were talking about because everything you said cut out and all I heard was you were talking about the alligator and then all of a sudden you were yelling Austin, Texas. So I apologize. Houston, Texas. I apologize a second time. Hehehehe.

Rudy (31:36.597)
Houston Houston, I never yell Austin, Texas. I fact I've yelled I did yell Austin, Texas once

Andrea (31:45.662)
Um, no, I- that is absolutely horrific. When I first saw the headline, I thought it was fake, or I thought it was like, you know, I thought it was one of those just fucking bullshit things that just goes around sometimes. And, uh, yeah, I- I'm horrified by that situation.

Rudy (31:45.773)
Go. Nothing good comes of it.

Rudy (32:05.377)
I went and looked to pull up the health department report. And one of the things, most of the states all post the most recent health department reports for the pools that they've inspected now. If you go to your county or state website for environmental health, you can usually find that. So I went and pulled up the one for this pool. Do you know, and I think you can only get the most recent one. You can only get the most recent one. Did you read it? Did you see what the date was? The day it fucking happened.

Andrea (32:27.358)
I read it.

Andrea (32:33.862)
No!

Rudy (32:36.477)
I wanna see the one that, I wanna see the one from before. I wanna see the one before it happened. That's what I wanna see. Not the ones where the health officials came in. Not the ones where the health officials came in and gave this report. I don't know, could they be trying to cover their ass? Possibly. This is a big fucked up thing.

Andrea (32:36.746)
Oh yeah, I did see that.

Andrea (32:42.711)
Yeah, why was that pool open?

Andrea (32:56.49)
Did they ever come out with what happened, like how it happened? Because people kept saying it.

Rudy (33:01.593)
28-inch pipe right lazy river It was something I think it was it was a big pipe big pipe right? I don't remember how big the pipe is but

Andrea (33:05.83)
28 inch.

Andrea (33:12.415)
It was a big pipe. I think it was only maybe it was 20. I don't honestly, I don't remember.

Rudy (33:17.813)
Anyway, big pipe, right? Little girl's playing in the lazy river. This pipe is, the water is flowing the wrong way through it. It's supposed to be coming into the lazy river, right? It's supposed to be coming into the lazy river, but it's not. It's being drawn from the lazy river. And I don't know if you've ever been in a water park pump room for a lazy river. You are talking massive, monstrous pumps for this thing. I'm talking upwards of 30 horsepower.

Andrea (33:26.875)
It's meant to be a return.

Rudy (33:45.613)
These are some powerful fucking pumps.

Andrea (33:50.226)
I have been in a water park room before. I was actually in the, was it the Mandalay? When I won the, when I won the Pleatco thing, I stayed at the Mandalay and we did, I got to do the Genesis course and they took us through the pump room. And so we got to see all the pumps and stuff for the water features and the wave pool and all that shit. So yeah, that is insane. Like you can literally fit in,

Rudy (33:53.741)
so you know what I'm talking about.

Andrea (34:18.954)
a small enough adult could fit in the fucking pump, you know, inside of this pump. But it was supposed to be a return. It was supposed to be putting water into the pool and it was a suction somehow. Now I saw somebody post on one of the Facebook groups that, and I don't know if this is for residential only, if this applies to a commercial, because I didn't see like the controls, you know, I didn't see the on off fucking switches or any of the buttons, I just looked at the

Rudy (34:25.753)
I'm looking.

Rudy (34:31.545)
Correct.

Andrea (34:47.786)
pumps and the tanks and stuff. But someone posted in one of the groups that you can reverse the flow of like a lazy river. And he did a video and he showed it and he pushed a button and it went from suction to reverse. And I don't know why that would be needed because I've never done a residential lazy river.

Rudy (34:49.57)
Right.

Rudy (35:06.273)
In a three phase horse. No, they weren't they saying it was because it was wired backwards though isn't what we were saying. It was.

Andrea (35:13.226)
That was all, that was speculation. That's what, that was what 900% of the people said, I bet it was a three-phase pump wired backwards. That's what everybody kept saying. I don't know if it was or not. That is what I'm asking. In the article that I read, some, the news guy said, one of the pool guys thinks that it was the three-phase pump wired backwards, but it never got confirmed. And I would like that confirmed.

Rudy (35:16.715)
No, you're...

Rudy (35:24.065)
And that was not the case? Oh, wait, here.

Andrea (35:43.122)
Because if it was a three-phase pump wired backwards, wouldn't everything be working wrong? Wouldn't like the whole, whatever it's plumbed to, wouldn't like the whole entire thing be working wrong?

Rudy (35:53.865)
Yeah, I would think so. But I mean, here's the thing though too. I mean, obviously not the same size, but if the pump at your pool, your pool, say it's your personal or any one of the ones that you take care of, was running backwards, do you think you'd see a difference in the way the pool was operating that would be noticeable by eye from a distance?

I mean, even 10, like you're not going to check out the equipment. You're just walking by the pool. Would you notice a difference?

Andrea (36:17.962)
I would.

Andrea (36:24.058)
I feel like I would. I mean, I guess maybe I can't say for sure because I haven't been in that position. The situation, I've never actually seen it, so maybe I wouldn't notice it. I like to think that I would notice it. That's what I thought. It was a 16 inch diameter pump pipe. I was like...

Rudy (36:33.721)
16 inches 16 inches this is from KHOU 11 news in Houston saying it's a 16 inch pipe That she was drawn into no cover on it. I can't imagine it wasn't I can't imagine it wasn't supposed to have a cover on it. I Do also know that from what I had heard and I don't want to speculate on anything

Andrea (36:52.019)
HAHAHAHA

Rudy (37:03.337)
that the facility did have some work done that was supposed to be signed off on by the health department before they could reopen, which apparently, I understand, did not occur. Does that match what you've heard?

Andrea (37:19.55)
The picture, yeah, the picture that I saw showed, I think so, the picture that I saw showed a big ass pipe behind what looked like to be half of a broken grate. Like the grate was covering one of the pipes and not the other one and it looked broken. So I couldn't really tell, I don't know if it was broken or if it was supposed to be like that. But still.

I've had my pools closed before for returns not being covered at the bottom of the pool. So why does this 16 inch pipe not have to be covered? Whether it's a return or a fucking suction, I'm sorry.

Rudy (38:00.045)
I think it should be and I don't think that that's I don't think that's the case that it doesn't have to be although I've heard some people say that and here's the other thing that's kind of pissing me off if you search the news Covered

Andrea (38:03.041)
OOF

Andrea (38:08.754)
What does it have to be?

Andrea (38:12.765)
Huh?

Rudy (38:13.557)
I've heard that this pipe doesn't need to be covered because it was an inlet.

Andrea (38:20.37)
Because it's what?

Rudy (38:21.725)
In let, water comes in.

Andrea (38:25.726)
Oh, yeah, well, that's not I mean, it's Florida code is even the return and let's have to be covered. And I've had my pools closed before for missing return covers.

Rudy (38:26.425)
Pushes in.

Rudy (38:32.237)
Good. But I can't imagine that Texas would be less strict. Here's the thing that really is pissing me off though. I mean, as I'm looking through this, through the news, on this story, I was looking for the pipe size, right? Found was 16 inches. But do you know that there's absolutely nothing sooner than two weeks ago on this story? Nothing. Surely, surely.

Somebody knows at this point in time what the fuck happened and why aren't they sharing that? They can say that you they can use the word allegedly When that guy got shot at down there and where was it Sarasota where they shot at that pool tech remember? That was all over the news everybody had all the details there except for their names

Andrea (39:06.302)
Yeah.

Andrea (39:13.05)
I wanna know what's it...

Andrea (39:17.938)
something like that I think. Yeah.

Rudy (39:24.829)
I don't know. It's disgusting.

Andrea (39:25.318)
Yeah, I mean, I want to, I'd like to know because I think it needs, there needs to be some serious shit going on to stop that because I mean, that's just the, just.

Rudy (39:34.893)
This is something that if this occurs.

People should be looking for this everywhere.

Obviously, I would assume.

Andrea (39:45.266)
I just keep thinking about the horrible way the family must feel and be thinking and shit, so...

Rudy (39:50.085)
Oh, it's God awful. I can't imagine my prayers go to that entire family. I couldn't even fathom, but I'm thinking that these people that built this lazy river, this is probably not the only one they built.

Andrea (39:58.561)
Yeah.

Andrea (40:09.662)
Did you see pictures of it? It looked raggedy anyway. It looked like a fucking raggedy-ass pool. I'm sorry. It looked like no bead. The pictures that I saw it was like Who like is the health department even inspecting this?

Rudy (40:09.918)
and

Rudy (40:20.921)
From what I understand, the family, from what I understand, this was a local Houston family. They weren't staying the night at the hotel. They don't have any access to a swimming pool. So what they did was is they rented a room so that they could use the pool, not planning on staying there. They were just gonna go for a couple of hours and then go back home.

Andrea (40:45.049)
Thank you.

Rudy (40:46.945)
My god.

Andrea (40:47.698)
That sucks. Yeah, that's terrible.

Rudy (40:50.013)
If you know, if you have more details on this, please share it with us because this is something that Is important. Yeah. Is this a normal. I mean, like Andrea saying, is this just something normal about this pump where you can flip a switch and it runs backwards. Should it be if that's the case. I've not heard of such a thing.

Andrea (40:56.709)
Yeah, let us know, talk

Andrea (41:10.266)
Yeah, that's what they posted on Facebook. Yeah, he showed a video of it, so.

Rudy (41:14.613)
I've not heard of such a thing, but I'll have to take a look at that. I'd not seen that, but still shouldn't this be tested every morning? Shouldn't this be inspected? Shouldn't the lazy river or anything at a water park, just due to the nature of it alone, have some kind of at least spot check?

Andrea (41:32.486)
Well, you know, it should be inspected, but people should also people also need to give a fuck, you know One of the things that kept coming up is and also if you read the article, too Um, was it hilton the hilton is like this is a franchise. So this has nothing to do with us. This is Yeah, they're like Yeah, they're like this is a franchise has nothing to do with us

Rudy (41:48.385)
Yeah, they said fuck it. They said it's not us. I saw that they backed off. That's pissing people off too

Andrea (41:56.286)
and i don't know i know you've dealt with commercial pools i've got a commercial pulls everybody i know down here in florida and everybody out you know i know all these people that have say the same thing is what i'm trying to get at is that they are cheap as fuck they don't want to do shit right they don't want to pay for the correct procedures they don't want to pay for the correct safety shit they don't want to they just want to save money so they'll have their maintenance guys do it instead of the pool guys so it's not done by proper

educated or licensed or whatever, and or they'll just ignore it. So, I mean, there really needs to be more, I guess, regulation, maybe set up a.

Rudy (42:28.005)
Usually usually these

Rudy (42:36.217)
But there is for these franchises, in order for them to carry that brand, the franchise to carry that brand, they have to meet a certain standard. So I don't see how Hilton's stepping away.

Andrea (42:44.198)
they got away with not meeting that standard.

Rudy (42:48.653)
Harris, this is in your home fucking state. Get over there and do something about it.

I mean, serious, you don't get to walk away. You put your name on it. You let them put their name on their building because you verified that they met a certain standard to be able to do so. So we don't walk away. Step up.

Andrea (42:55.183)
Yeah.

Andrea (43:13.006)
That's a corporation. That's a big ass corporation for you. So, yay!

Rudy (43:20.026)
Unbelievable. Anyway, sorry to leave you guys on a grim note. That's just the way these things rolled out. Andrea, what do you got going on out there now? Andrea's out in the field today. She's sitting in her truck sweating her ass off because we can't run the AC and hear her over the microphone. So we got the bad signal going on. We've already dropped one of us at least once.

Andrea (43:34.834)
Yeah, and I got bad signal and...

Andrea (43:43.502)
Yeah, well, so I did, I just posted about it on Facebook and I know I'm going to hear shit because I already have been getting shit. I did 27 pools today. I did two leaked suspicions and one of those 27 pools was, yes, suspicions. My suspicion rate, I am, can I, can I be over 100% successful? Is that possible? Can I be like 125% success rate?

Rudy (43:57.453)
Suspection.

Rudy (44:01.707)
Love it.

Rudy (44:10.069)
Well yeah, because suspect carries an air of uncertainty, so no matter what it is, you're always right.

Andrea (44:13.609)
Is that how-

Andrea (44:18.43)
Huh? Well, if I call and I be like, I suspect there's, if I suspect there's a leak, and they're like, no, there's no leak, then I'm wrong. Now my percentage rate goes down.

Rudy (44:20.973)
Suspicion!

Rudy (44:25.814)
Right?

Not really. No, it's because it's suspicion and there's an air of uncertainty involved in the word suspicion alone, so.

Andrea (44:36.614)
Okay, I like it. We'll go with that. So I did two leak suspicions. They were confirmed leaking. And I did one pool for one of my co workers. I didn't feel like helping out. I've helped him out like three weeks in a row, three Fridays in a row. So I was like, man, I'm tired. I'm done. I'll do one for you because I'm right here.

Rudy (44:38.325)
You're always 100% correct no matter what.

Rudy (44:57.209)
At this point, are you helping him or are you just doing his job? Are you doing his job for him? Are you helping him or doing his job for him at this point?

Andrea (45:06.606)
No, I'm helping him this time. The first couple of times I did it because I was doing his job for him and I got paid to do his job for him. And then I just felt like being nice because he had a family issue and so he got behind and so I tried to help him out.

Rudy (45:08.182)
Okay.

Rudy (45:15.117)
We're getting paid to know the thing.

Rudy (45:19.877)
I get it. Understood, understood, understood. So cool beans. So as always, the third Wednesday of every month, Ipsa live virtual. Hit me up if you want the code to sign in. This week, we have Anna David, bestselling New York Times author. She's gonna speak with us about how to go from how to go to.

Andrea (45:24.956)
Yeah.

Rudy (45:48.991)
in your market.

That's gonna be that's next Wednesday. That's this upcoming Wednesday. Yeah, third Wednesday of every month. Hit me up. I'll shoot you over. You can find me at Rudy at CPO class.com. Again, that's Rudy at CPO class.com. Fire over an email if you're interested in coming and hearing what she has to say. I've listened to her speak super, super impressive lady. I'm excited about it. Let me know. I'll fire you off an invitation. Anybody can come as long as you.

Andrea (45:52.57)
Nice, we'll have to share it and you can post it and I'll share it.

Andrea (46:15.815)
Yeah, sounds good.

Rudy (46:19.641)
are in the pool industry. You do not have to be an Ipsum member to attend. All of these things that I do are

Non-exclusive, free to the world, and free, absolutely. But there are benefits, there are still benefits in joining a chapter, there's that too, but these are free. Cool beans. All right, everybody, thanks for checking in with us today. Sorry about the rough and rocky start and some, well, we touched upon some really tragic topics today.

Andrea (46:30.44)
and free.

Andrea (46:34.763)
and you don't have to be an Ipsum member.

Andrea (46:39.856)
Of course.

Andrea (46:52.798)
Yeah, but you know, life's tragic sometimes.

Rudy (46:53.557)
Heavy stuff, but it's the real world, and it's what we deal with. Hey, it's the nature of the business. It's not always leprechauns and Romulans.

Andrea (47:06.282)
ambulance.

Rudy (47:08.889)
It's a Star Trek thing.

Andrea (47:11.73)
I know, but leprechauns and romulans don't go together.

Rudy (47:15.857)
Exactly, that's the point I'm trying to make. So until next time, be good, be safe.

Andrea (47:19.562)
Uhhhhhhhhh

Andrea (47:23.29)
What's your problem and your voice is making my head echo?

Rudy (47:29.07)
See, I'm telling you, that's gonna work.

Andrea (47:31.806)
Bye!