Talking Leaks

Shane walks us through his leak detection methods

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:53

G'day folks, and welcome to another episode of Monday's Down Under on the Talking Pools podcast. You are joined by me, Shane. I am flying solo today. Peter the mad bastard's gone into the bush. Hopefully, not by himself. Who knows what he's doing in there? I've seen the movie Crocodile Dundee, and all I can wish you is good luck, Peter. I hope that you're safe and well in there. And fingers crossed, you come out with all your limbs, and it and in one piece for the next episode. Really? Good luck. Today we're going to be talking about leaking swimming pools. So hopefully, I can give some advice to anybody out there which is thinking about delving into this side of uh service work themselves. It's something that I've been doing myself since pretty much day one in the industry in my first job, and I do enjoy it. As long as when the uh the water temperature is good, that always helps. You will find over time that every swimming pool will more than likely leak. No matter what age it is, I've come to pools which have been in the ground maybe two years, they've got broken pipes underneath the ground, anything up to 40 years, it's inevitable. They're always going to leak at some point. As and when that is, every pool's different, depending on what the swimming pool is in. In in Auckland, there is a huge amount of clay in the ground. So as that clay dries, it opens up, it cracks, and then once the rain comes down, and when the water and um water table and the ground starts saturating the floor, you know, these cracks go back together. So I'm not sure if people have tried moving clay or digging out clay, it's pretty solid. So if you can imagine that opening up with a crack in the daytime, and when it's dry, sorry, it's going to be a lot of force and pressure on that pipework. Uh groundwater itself, it plays a huge part in when you're testing for leaks as well. So if there is a high water table in the ground, nine times out of ten, that pool might not might not even be leaking. I've come to a liner many many years ago. I dived down and there was a hole inside of the wall, size of my fist. You could literally you know put your hand through the the hole and touch the outside of the swimming pool. Well, the pool wasn't losing any water on that specific day because the groundwater was so high. So when it's pretty much as equal as the swimming pool water, that pressure from the outside and the inside, you're not going to lose any or you're going to lose barely, barely any. So this is always a big thing to uh keep in mind when people are saying that they have a leaking swimming pool. Maybe they'll call you back up and say, Oh, it's actually been alright, you know, for the last couple of weeks. You know, ask yourself, has it been raining? Would there be groundwater in there surrounding the swimming pool? There's a few things to take into consideration before you actually start testing for things. Now, usually when I turn up to a swimming pool, it's always handy to have the client there as well, just in case you need to ask any questions. You know, I'm sure they'll give you the details of what the what the pool water has been like, the level, you know, how often it's been dropping, how often they need to fill it up. Nine times out of ten as well, they'll have a suspicion on where the leaker be. I've been to many clients where they've said, you know, we've let the water go down to this point, it's stopped, stopped at the bottom of the skimmer, and they're adamant that the skimmer is leaking. No. Doing all your tests, checking everything, and you find out the skimmer's fine. And this relies on water pressure of the uh the groundwater, the water table in the ground. So always say things like that with a pinch of salt. But at the same time, it's always good to get some information from them. So once you're on the pool side, walk around the parameter of the pool, check everything, have a look, do all your visual checks, have a look around in the garden. If you can follow any pipe work, if it is visible, by all means do so. Have a look at the surface of the swimming pool if it is concrete plaster. Check to see if you can see any cracks, any visual cracks. When you're by the skimmer, uh, with the system turned off, the pump turned off. Take the skimmer basket out, have a look inside the skimmer itself, make sure there's no leaves in there, make sure it's as clean as possible. Just visually check for any cracks or anything that may look a little bit suspicious, and then you can get your dye out, start testing, do some dye testing. If it looks like it could potentially be a crack at the bottom of the skimmer, it does happen, it's very common. Squeeze a little bit of dye in there. If it is a crack, fingers crossed there's no high water table, and that die does get pulled through. There's a clear sign that that one is leaking. Now, whether they choose to replace the entire skimmer, or to be fair, a lot of my uh clients that I've gone to in the past, they haven't really chosen to go down that route. Ideally, you should, but they've you know they've kind of asked just to put a bandage on it, use some epoxy. It's not the greatest thing to use when you're trying to adhere it to any form of plastic or PVC, it just doesn't bomb very well. So if you are going down this route, just make sure that the client is aware that this is a temporary fix, how long it's gonna last, you know. You you cannot give them a guaranteed indication on the length and time that it is gonna last. I've seen epoxy last, you know, up to a year on some swimming pools, it's lasted five years. So, again, those are probably down to uh ground movement as well. So just make sure that they're aware of this. You always want to cover yourself regardless. So, yeah, just make sure this procedure, if you if you have followed that procedure, you know you've got that written in writing once you send it through on a report or on an invoice. Um, just clearly stating that advised customer they are going down the epoxy route, then um they have been advised that this is only a temporary measure and they're happy with this. Other things to check while you're still on pool side, the tile band, check to see if any tiles have fallen off, depending on the age of the pool. If tiles fall off, it's usually again down to down to ground movement, or if the tile hasn't been adhered properly to the actual shell of the swimming pool. There is a lot of cowboys out there which will probably use um I've seen it in the past, it's not ideal, but they've used some form of no nails or silicone to stick the tiles on. Obviously, that's not gonna last very long at all. So, yeah, this is one thing to check if the tiles have fallen off. Check to see if there is a crack in the bond beam behind there. If it is, if there is a large crack, um, eventually that is going to work its way around the entire surface area of the swimming pool. So, this is something to advise the client as well. Check that it isn't going down, it isn't rooting down in towards a plaster. If it is, again, do some dye testing. Dye will become one of your best friends when it comes to leak detection. It's amazing stuff, you know. You've if you see a potential leak, a potential crack, a potential hole, anything as long as the groundwater isn't um too high, you know, that dye will always get pulled through. So that's it's it's very handy to keep you know a bottle of dye in a syringe, in the work van, you know, in your dive bag, in your pressure testing kit anywhere at all times as well. While you're still on pool side, if you can access any of the light faces, it's always good to disconnect them. If you can die test around the face of the niche which goes into the wall, that's always good as long as you can reach down to it. Um, they have a tendency of leaking as well. When it comes to return faces, if you can pop off the eyeball, the jet. Also test as they yeah, as the pipe, the PVC pipe comes into the swimming pool and it meets the plaster. I've had multiple leaks around there where the plaster's actually started to wear away, so this is always a good one to check. Sometimes they can be you know a millimeter, less than a millimeter. So you've got to have a very good eye for these types of jobs as well. But this is another thing that you can also check pool side. Still, while you're on pool side, um, also check the mouth of the skimmer, do some die testing and some visual checks around there as well. They are prone to leaking over time, so you know this is this is another thing that you can cross off your checklist. If you can't see any of the pipe work, if it is under the ground, which tends to happen a lot in New Zealand, I'm sure it's the same everywhere in the world. Unfortunately, the plans for the swimming pool, when the client gets the plans, they'll have a drawing of the swimming pool, you know, next to the house or in the garden, wherever it is. I've never seen not once seen a plan which shows where the pipe work goes. So that kind of makes it a little bit challenging. But you know, once once you've been in the industry long enough, you can kind of you can guess. I guess nine times out of ten, you'll kind of figure out which way it's going to go, as long as there's not a huge distance between the pump shed and the pool itself. So it's always good to try and try and figure it out to map it out in your head. Uh walk along that route where you think it may be, just have a look if there's any grass which is looking like you know it's growing longer than um uh the rest of the area. If there's any damp patches in mud or in the garden, you know, this is this is other things to check for. Visual checks around the swimming pool. You you really need to be as thorough as you can because, again, there is it, there is a lot of areas out there where you can actually pinpoint the leak, whether it is down to damp ground, or whether you've visually seen it, you know, a pipe's coming out of the ground, you can see it blatantly while the system's running, a crack in the return line, you can see it. So um be as thorough as you can when it comes to investigating the surroundings of the swimming pool before you actually get down to the pump shed itself. Once you get down to the pump shed, personally, I like to I'd like to leave the um the system running and just go around all the bits of equipment, check everything visually, feel the pipework, feel if there's any dampness, you know, check around the pump, check around the filter, check around the heat pumps, check around any other pumps, solar pumps that they might have, check around any of the pipe work that goes, you know, if it goes up into the pump shed roof, if it goes out the side of the pump shed door, go out visually check, see exactly where it's going. If you can follow it, follow it by all means. Solar is another one. If they have solar heating, make sure you turn that pump on and it's running. I've I've come across quite a few where they've had a split in their solar mat actually on the roof. In a situation like this, I've I've I've noticed it just by going on roadside, and there's basically you know a little water fountain coming off their roof. So, you know, this there's something that you can check visually, which is easy enough to do. When it comes to the pumps, if it looks like there is any air being pulled through into the hair and limp pots, that could be a sign as well. Pumps when they pull water, if there is a crack in the line, you know, it can be the smallest of cracks. The pumps will prefer to suck air rather than water, it's much easier. This is just down from what I've noticed in the past. So, this is another thing to check for if the the hair and limp pot isn't fully primed up while you're still on the pump side. Check around the unions again, just feel if there's any dampness, any drips coming out of the um the unions themselves. Uh, went to a job last week where the pump was leaking. The actual uh the the uh 40mm pipe which was glued into the union had actually heated up and pushed out over time. Now kind of looks like initially it wasn't glued in properly from the installer as the pump possibly is is been running dry for X amount of time, it's heated up the return side union, and it's yeah, it's just managed to push the pipe out over time. So it was only a slight drip, but that that again that was something that the client didn't notice. There was also a leak on the bleeder valve on the bottom of the pump, this style of pump had a little a little knob at the bottom that you could unscrew and basically bleed it, prime it. There was a very small drip coming from that one where the o-ring, it was just completely worn down. So these are these are other things to check on the pump side as well. Then make your way up to the filter on the same job last week. The collar around the um it was a media filter with an MPV on the top. The collar had come loose. There's two screws and two nuts which hold the collar and the MPV in place. The guy was saying that the filter was about 15 years old, hadn't been changed, the meat the media hadn't been changed. So over time, these nuts and bolts are just they're basically loosening up over time. It wasn't again, it wasn't a major leak, but it was enough to notice that it was a drip coming out every time the system turned on. This is another good reason to have the system turned on while you're going around and you're checking everything at the same time. We got it to the uh the MPV and the MPV, it wasn't leaking on filter, but it was leaking on recirculate. Now, in a situation like that, you know, two options either put a two-way valve on the waistline or let the client know that they need a new MPV, even though it's not leaking on filter, it was leaking on recirculate. There should be no water coming out your waistline when it's on recirculate. So it's obviously leaking when um intermittently, and this could be another reason why he's having water loss when it's on filter. So, as a rule of thumb myself, if the client client's equipment is leaking on recirculate as well, either put a two-way valve on there or replace the MPV. Whilst I was checking around the MPV as well, I did notice that there was a drip coming out the top of the heat pump. So, yeah, there was there was another leak there. When the system was turned off, sorted out the MPV, put a two-way valve on. Check valve had actually come loose. The nut had come loose, and the boat had actually started uh warping as well. Again, probably been there since day one. Uh, that was an easy fix, but um, yeah, with in regards to heat pumps, you know, when the system's running, it's obviously on the pressurized side. Check around the bottom of it, feel any drips if you can. Ideally, when the heat pump isn't running, because if it is running, then you're gonna get condensation running through the system, and it's probably gonna be excreen out the bottom of it or you know, out its tube. Make sure that system's been off for a good 24 hours before you actually check it. Yep, that was an easy fix, luckily. So the uh the MPV was we put a two-way valve on that, I'll put a two-way valve on that one. That was an easy fix for the clients. I think, yep, that was that was the issues found that side. Then the next step through this one was pressure testing the line. So the returns and the skimmer were accessible, there was no bottom drain to pressure test, put the bung into the skimmer, and put the bungs and plugs into the return jets, disconnect your suction side and your return side, and yeah, start pressurizing that line. Just be warned if um if there is any two-way, three-way valves on there, if they are looking old and tired, and you're pressurizing that line and it's a little bit further down on the pipework, you may get an inaccurate reading just where the pressure isn't holding because that valve's old, the old ring inside, it's not going to hold pressure. So, depending on which tools you have, you can put plugs down inside the actual housing itself for the two-way two-way valves, so you can at least isolate from that point back to the pool side, pressurize that line, hold it for a good 10-15 minutes. I like to build mine up to about 10 psi. Um, I don't want to get any higher than that just because of safety reasons, and then while these lines are holding in pressure, you know, if if the dive, if sorry, if the pool does need a dive, then start sorting out your dive gear and getting everything prepared. If it is a vinyl pool, what I prefer to do personally is cut maybe about 10 patches so they're ready to go. It's always a bit of a pain I've noticed when I'm diving into a vinyl pool and there's multiple holes down there, having to come back up, cut one patch, dive back down, find another hole, come back up, cut another patch. So I tend to cut about 10 patches. Obviously, you're not going to do this on a fiberglass or a concrete pool, but there's yeah, well, I mean you can do this, you know, get things ready uh for the vinyl liners. Now that you've set everything up on the pool side with your dive gear, everything else that you may need if it is a concrete pool, they can crack over time. See many, many um plaster pools opening up, and the other crack where it hasn't for whatever reason it hasn't bonded to the shock rate of the gunites, um, it's opened up and they do leak. So make sure you get your die ready going down, possibly some epoxy if need be. And yeah, by the time you've done that, go back and check your pressure rig, see if the pressure's held. Fingers crossed it has. If it has, then yep, you know, you return and your uh your suction side are passed. If you're testing for a bottom drain, obviously you're going to need to butt uh dive down, button that one off, come back up to pool side if you haven't got any assistance, and then re-pressurize that suction line as well. It's always a good idea if you are diving into the swimming pool just to inform the client that the pool does need to be clean, it was as clean as they can get it, at least. I mean, no leaves in the pool, definitely no algae, it can be cloudy in situations like this. You know, it makes it extremely difficult if you are having to dive a pool and die test. It it basically prolongs your dive. It's more money for you, but at the same time, it's just it's just a waste of time. I prefer to be in there, jumping into a pool, having it ready, it's nice and clean, safe to swim in, and you're good to go. It's you know, it makes the client happier at the end of the day if you say that you're going to save them money. So that is a must. So, yeah, just make sure that they're aware of this, make sure that the water level is topped up to the coping stones if they're able to do that prior to coming to the dive because the more pressure in the swimming pool, the better. Now, once I'm in the swimming pool, usually my strategy is checking anything that you can up around the waterline or if there's any lights, check any fittings first. Um, so your return faces where the pipe goes and it joins onto the plaster. If it was a plaster pool, what your lights taken out of the niche as the cable goes into the wall, they're prone to leaking. There is a fantastic product out there called Butyl Tape, and basically it's a flex it's it's like a flexible tape where you can actually push it into conduit where the cable goes into the niche, and you can just jam-pack this uh butyl tape, and this will this will seal the leak. So I strongly advise using something like this. If there is a leak by the uh the cable going into the light niche or into the wall, a very good product. So check your uh your faces of the returns, you check your lights, go again to the skimmer face, check the bottom of it. Um, you'll get a better clear visual of the actual uh skimmer face itself when you're under the water and you can see the bottom of it a lot more clearer. So do some die testing around there, check for any cracks by all means. So once you've checked the Penetration points around the swimming pool, then usually I would prefer to start on the walls, basically just making your way from the top and making your way down to the uh the deep end of the pool. So work yourself along the walls and any of the steps and feeling around if it is a liner pool, just rub your hand around in front of you, just moving it left and right, or have a rag in your hand so it if it is dirty or if there's any leaves in there, you're just pushing things away. It'll just give you a better, uh, a bit better visibility, and you can actually feel if there is anything starting to protrude through the liner. Obviously, with fiberglass and concrete, you know, you you you're searching for cracks, you're searching for holes, anything that just looks out of the ordinary, um, that shouldn't be there. If you find anything, die test it again, depending on the water table and the ground, where which area you're in. Um, if it does look suspect, then you know, if you're able to patch it up or put up a bit of epoxy on there, by all means do so. Again, yep, you know, in the past I've come to a couple of pools, they've they've really stuck in my head where it's been a plaster, it's a you know, a concrete pool, it's been plastered, it's been in there for many many years, and literally they have a crack from their tile band, you know, maybe five feet long, four feet long, and I've you know, you die test all the way down, and there's only certain little points where the die is going to be sucked through for whatever reason, I'm not too sure. But in a situation like that, you would just you know clean out as much as you can of that crack, uh preferably using a wire brush. At this, you know, on this particular pool, there was there was quite a bit of algae in there. Um, clean out as much as you can with a wire brush, put a bead of epoxy from top to bottom, um, and explain to the client that they they do have some major defects in the swimming pool, and they are going to want to get this you know looked at sooner rather than later. When it comes to sit, you know, a situation like that. Ideally, you want to you know drain the swimming pool, shrimp back the plaster, you know, and put staples in the short crit of the gunites just so it holds it together. Uh re-plaster over again. Not a lot of people out here want to do that, they prefer to have the bandage, you know, for what whatever reason it's it usually boils down to money, and you know, I I can't blame them for that. So we can just do what we can do if they're happy with that. As long as you've informed them, you know, this is gonna be a temporary fix. Um, it covers yourself when you get that phone call in six months, twelve months, twenty-four months time, whenever it's gonna be, saying that it's starting to open up or my pool's leaking again. So always cover yourself. I think Heather is a uh a big one for for mentioning this on her shows, so it's it's a must. You must cover yourself regardless of whatever job that you're doing, get everything down in writing, cover, cover, cover. Once the walls have been checked, uh then it's a case of starting on the floor, then again. If it's a vinyl pool, get your rag in your hand, or you know, feel along the base of the floor, feel if there's anything protruding out the bottom. If it's a concrete pool, again just look for any defects in the plaster. I tend to use a zigzagging motion when I'm on the pool floor. Um, this allows me to cover the entire pool pool floor. So on the liner pools, the vinyl pools, where they're joined together, where they're seamed together, there's yeah, there's there is a seam that you can basically follow. So you can you can cover one area which is roughly I'd probably say just under a meter, maybe about two, two and a half foot. So you can kind of run that strip, you know, uh making your way down towards the deep end, covering that area, spin yourself around while you're on the deep end, work on the next uh strip of liner, and make your way back up to the shallow end. So zigzagging motion is is it's always worked for me in the past. Um, this is something I would stick to. Again, if if the swimming pool does have a bottom drain, take off the main drain cover, uh, plug off your bottom drain suction point. If there's a hydrostatic valve in there, by all means check that, depending on the pool age. You know, if it's anywhere between six and seven plus years, a good standard for myself would be just to replace that hydrostatic valve. Um, regardless, I'm down under the pool, you know, they cost 50 bucks, so it's an easy fix to do as long as you've got the right tools for it, and it makes the customer happy. You know, this is something that you can fix on the spot as well. Where they may have a um a hydro plate by all means die test around there, you know, the plasters meeting the actual pool shell itself. So this is I've I've noticed a couple of these in the past, they've they're prone to leak. Again, probably just wear and tear the age of the swimming pool. So, yeah, this is something that something else that you can die test while you're on the pool floor. You can also test around the actual housing of the main drain. You know, if it's a main drain hydro combo where it's in the housing and it meets the plaster, bowl means die test around the seal. Uh check to make sure that that's all good at the same time. Uh, usually what I like to do is while the bottom drain is being pressure tested, just go around the swimming pool, another, you know, another lap around the pool on the floor, on the walls, just to give everything a double check. You've got 15 minutes waiting for the pressure uh test to come back with a result. Um, so it makes sense just to go around. We're only human, we do miss things every now and then, it happens. So if you go around it two times, you know it gives the client a bit more of a peace of mind as well that you're doing a bit more of a thorough check. Now, if you do find, for instance, any of the suction points or any of the return points are leaking, and all the pipe work is buried underneath the grounds. Um, this could make it a little bit challenging for yourself if you have gone around the area and you've checked there's no dampness, um, there's no visible signs of any um any water, any you know, overgrow growing grass. Um, that's when it can make things a little bit challenging. It's like as the old saying goes, find an anido in the haystack, um, and that's exactly what it can be. So, um, what our company invested in last year was a um acoustic testing equipment from a company in America, in California called Leatronics. So this equipment is very good. We've had a very good success rate with it. It takes quite a bit of practice listening to the um the exact sounds that you need to listen to, um, but you can usually pinpoint exactly where that leak is coming from. Um, I know companies around Auckland which use the same equipment themselves, um, they've they've also had very good success rates. Um, but if it is next to any form of um underground pipework, sewage lines, wastewater, um storm gully traps, anything like that, then it can make it a little bit difficult because it will it more than likely will pick up that sound, so just bear that in mind. Um, but all in all, a very, very good piece of equipment. Now, depending on what issues you find, um they're all gonna um result in using different methods um to either a bandage or a you know a temporary fix or whether it comes to a permanent fix. So this is something that the customer is always gonna choose. You can only advise them. Um, you know, you you you'll provide the report to them, you'll explain every to that everything to them in detail. Um, but at the end of the day, they're the one, it's it's their swimming pool, they're the ones that's gonna make that choice. So we can only do what we can do at the end of the day. Um, as long as the pool stops leaking. Uh, once you finish doing your job, you're not gonna not getting any callbacks from them two weeks down the line, three weeks down the line saying that the pool's still leaking, as long as you're thorough with everything that you do, um, and give them good explanations, then you should be good. I will keep everybody posted on a swimming pool that I've got coming up. Um, I think the guy comes back in February, middle of February from Australia. Um, I've done a site visit there. He's had two other companies come in and do some leak detection, and it sounds like they've walked away. So, usually in a situation like that, alarm bell should be ringing. Uh, but no, muggins here. He's he accepted the call and had a site visit, and we went around there and um yeah, we checked the pool. The pool's probably about 30 years old. Um, there is multiple cracks in the pool which have been basically patched up pretty much every corner of the swimming pool. Um, there was from memory, I think, three uh return jets which have been bunged off. I don't know what they're for if it's solar, they do have solar. Um, in yeah, they've got a solar pump in the pump machine that got solar on the roof. He said he hasn't used it. Um, so this one could well be opening up a can of worms, and I will post a lot of pictures on the talking pools uh Facebook page. So this could be a bit of a challenge for myself as well. So hopefully, I can give some good feedback to people which are interested in this line of work. Fingers crossed that I can. Um so yeah, to be continued, we'll see. Um, so yeah, that's me out. Hope everybody's taken away a little bit of something today from this. Die is your best friend. Just remember that when it comes when it comes to lead uh testing, and um yeah, happy days. Good luck with everything going forward, guys, if you are doing this line of work, and um yeah, keep us posted, post your uh your progress as well as your fails on the on the talk and pools Facebook page. Um, if there is anything that I can help with, uh by all means I will do. Um we're all a team, no matter where you are in the world, you know we've all got to stick together. So that's me done for today, guys. Hopefully, it wasn't too bad without Peter today. Apologies if it was, and uh, I do owe everybody an apology for my sound. Uh, for the last few episodes I've been on with Peter, it does sound like I'm recording it in a donny. So I do need to apologize for that, guys and girls. Um, hopefully, this sound is better. Rudy's giving me a kick up the ass, and uh yeah, fingers crossed, you can hear my stupid accent a little bit better now. So uh, big loves to everybody, peace out.