Cold Plunge Myths: Dewey Case of the CMAHC Turns Up the Heat

Cold plunges and ice baths are appearing everywhere—from fitness centers and recovery facilities to wellness clinics, athletic programs, and luxury spas. But colder water does not automatically mean cleaner or safer water.

In this episode of the Talking Pools Podcast, Natalie Hood is joined by Dewey Case, Technical Director for the Council for the Model Aquatic Health Code and Aquatics Coordinator for Williamson County Parks and Recreation in Tennessee.

Dewey helped assemble the experts behind the new CMAHC Cold Water Venue Guidance. Together, he and Natalie separate cold-plunge facts from social-media fiction and explain why these increasingly popular venues require far more attention than a tub, a garden hose, and several bags of ice.

They discuss why bacteria can survive in cold water, how lower temperatures can slow sanitizer performance, and why even a single user introduces sweat, body oils, cosmetics, urea, and microorganisms into the water. They also examine the much greater contamination burden created when a commercial system serves dozens—or potentially hundreds—of users each week.

The conversation covers the risks associated with poorly maintained systems, including biofilm, Pseudomonas, swimmer’s ear, and the possibility of transferring gastrointestinal pathogens. They also explain why dunking your head into questionable cold-plunge water may be a particularly bad idea.

In This Episode

• Why cold water does not sanitize itself
• The truth about bacteria and pathogens in cold plunges
• Why “I’m the only person using it” does not eliminate water-quality concerns
• What sweat, cosmetics, clothing, and body oils add to the water
• Why users should shower before entering
• The risks of head submersion in poorly maintained water
• How biofilm and Pseudomonas can develop inside plumbing and on surfaces
• Why commercial cold plunges are not simply oversized bathtubs
• How high bather loads change filtration, sanitation, and maintenance demands
• Why cold-water chemistry can be more challenging than spa chemistry
• How low temperatures affect chemical dissolution and disinfection
• The purpose of the new CMAHC Cold Water Venue Guidance
• Why proper operation, cleaning, and maintenance make cold-water immersion safer

As Dewey explains, a home cold plunge used by one person and a recirculating commercial venue serving hundreds of bathers are not the same thing. When the bather load changes, the operational practices must change with it.

This episode is essential listening for pool professionals, aquatic operators, health officials, inspectors, facility managers, designers, builders, fitness-center owners, and anyone responsible for operating a commercial cold-water venue.

She Swims So They Can

Natalie is preparing to swim more than 21 miles across three open-water swimming marathons as part of the Tennessee Triple Crown Open Water Swim Challenge. Her campaign, She Swims So They Can, benefits Every Child a Swimmer and helps provide children with access to lifesaving swim lessons.

Her scheduled swims are:

• September 13, 2026
• September 20, 2026
• October 3, 2026

Donations will be accepted through October 3, 2026.

To learn more, donate, purchase official fundraising apparel, or explore sponsorship opportunities, visit Natalie’s Facebook or Instagram pages. Companies interested in sponsoring the campaign may contact Natalie directly at nhood@thegritgame.com.

Every contribution helps—and every share expands the campaign’s reach.

Special thanks to campaign sponsors Revved Up Apparel, H2flow Controls, Tenjam, and the Talking Pools Podcast.

#TalkingPoolsPodcast #ColdPlunge #ColdWaterImmersion #IceBath #AquaticSafety #WaterQuality #PoolOperator #PoolProfessional #CMAHC #MAHC #PublicHealth #Aquatics #Pseudomonas #WaterChemistry

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Before we get into today's episode, I want to take a moment to recognize the incredible companies supporting my Tennessee Triple Crown Open Water Swim Challenge, benefiting every child a swimmer. First, I'd like to thank Revip Apparel, the official apparel sponsor of the campaign, and H2 Flow Controls. Thank you both for believing in the mission and helping making this possible. This week, I'd also like to give a very special shout out to two more amazing sponsors who have joined the journey. Thank you to Talking Pulls Podcast for supporting not only this fundraiser, but for also providing an incredible platform to share the mission with the aquatics industry. Your support and encouragement mean more than you know, and I'm truly grateful to be a part of the Talking Pools family. I'd also like to thank Tenjam for coming on board as a sponsor. Your commitment to supporting water safety and helping every child a swimmer, provide life-saving swim lessons is greatly appreciated. Thank you for believing in this cause and for being a part of this journey. I also want to say a heartfelt thank you to everyone who has already visited the public donation page, made a contribution, and left such kind and encouraging messages. It's truly meant the world to me, and I sincerely appreciate every one of you. Your support and encouragement continue to motivate me as I prepare for these swims. As many of you know, I'll be swimming more than 21 miles across three open water swim marathons to raise money for every child to swimmer through my fundraiser. She swims so they can. Donations will be accepted through October 3rd following my final marathon. And for those asking, my swims are September 13th, September 20th, and October 3rd. And if your company would like to become a sponsor or if you have any questions about the campaign, you can reach out to me directly at nhood at thegritgame.com. You can also visit my Facebook or Instagram pages to learn more about the fundraiser, make a donation, or purchase the official fundraising apparel. And if sponsoring or donating isn't possible, sharing the fundraiser is just as meaningful. Every dollar helps, every share makes a difference, and together we can help ensure more children have the opportunity to learn this life-saving skill. Now let's jump into today's episode. Welcome back to the Talking Pools Podcast, your go-to source for everything wet, wild, and wonderfully misunderstood in the pool world. I'm Natalie Hood, Director of Education and Events for The Grit Game. And today we're tackling one of the fastest growing trends in aquatics, commercial cold water venues. You know, whether you call them cold plunges, ice baths, or cold water immersion systems, they're showing up everywhere from fitness centers, wellness clinics to recovery facilities and luxury spas. And with that rapid growth comes questions and my favorite myths and misinformation. So to help us separate fact from fiction, I'm joined by Dewey Case, Technical Director for the Council for the Model Aquatic Health Code. You know, Dewey played a key role in developing the new CMAC Cold Water Venue Guidance, a document designed to help public officials, designers, builders, operators, and inspectors better understand the unique challenges of these facilities. So today, we're going to be putting some of the biggest myths surrounding commercial cold water venues to the test and discussing what the guidance actually says. So, Dewey, welcome back to the Talking Pools Podcast.

SPEAKER_07 4:28

You know what time it is? Wednesday vibes on the Talking Pools podcast.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

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SPEAKER_03 8:27

Dewey, welcome back to the Talking Pools podcast.

SPEAKER_06 8:31

Great. Thank you, Natalie. Glad to be here with you today. You know, I I do have to say one thing, right? The only thing I did for the cold water uh venue guidance document is I got the right people in the room. So I certainly appreciate the accolades there. When it comes to the the big picture, right, it's our it's our ad hoc committee, our volunteers. Yeah. Uh they're the ones that did the heavy lift. Only thing I did is I knew how to find the best minds, put them in the room, and let them go.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Well, I'll say, you know, just looking through the guidance, I could tell that there was a tremendous amount of thought, collaboration, and expertise that went into developing a document like this. And it's truly an incredible resource for our industry.

SPEAKER_06 9:17

Yeah, thank you. It was, it was definitely uh a a work of love by those involved. And, you know, we're just so proud to have the volunteers that we do lend their expertise into this thing. And I want to give a quick shout out to uh Sarah Cheshire, who's a program manager for the study of Utah, school program manager. She really just kind of led this charge. She was the chair for the committee. Utah would be was the first jurisdiction to come out with definitive, you know, cold water venue guidance. So she led that charge and she just did a yeoman's job leading that committee, tying the threads and putting it together. So big shout out to Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Well, I I I cannot I I will have to give her a big shout out as well because again, this this resource is incredible. And I took some time to read through it, and there's just so much great information in here. I certainly appreciate it. And this was released about when was it released officially? Oh, earlier this month, the I want to say around July 12th. Okay. Okay. So it's so it's been a it's been out for a couple weeks now, almost three weeks now.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yeah. Well, it it's it's it's an incredible resource. So if you have not checked it out, definitely check it out, read through it, make sure you're you're uh, you know, catching up and you you have a good understanding, especially those that are out there in the service. And um, you know, definitely for as as cold as commercial cold water venues, you know, they're really continuing to grow in popularity. And I think, you know, as things start to grow, there's a lot more misconceptions and definitely surrounding their design, their operation, definitely water quality and overall safety. So I definitely think it's well overdue. We bust some of these myths as this new guidance has come out. And so who better to do this with than you, Mr. Dewey Case? So thank you for being here with us again. I actually, you know what's what's interesting? Uh I have to take it back. You were my first interviewee uh on my podcast.

SPEAKER_06 11:20

Oh, way, way back when it seems. Yeah, I was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

You were my first, yeah. When uh when Rudy called me up and he was like, Hey, do you uh you want to be a host on the Talking Pulls podcast? I was like, Oh, I've never done podcasting before, Rudy. But yeah, sure, sounds like fun. Let's do it. You were the first, you were my my first guest. I uh I remember I called you up and I think it was like a Tuesday or Wednesday, and uh you were like, Yeah, let's record this Friday. And I was like, oh, oh, okay, okay. But I mean, that's just who you are. You're just so awesome. I mean, I anyone can call you and you're like, let's do it. I'm here for you. So I agree.

SPEAKER_06 11:55

Well, a lot of it is we gotta move fast and strike while the iron's hot too. That's right. You know, but so in addition to my role with CMAC, I'm the aquatics coordinator for Williamson County, Tennessee, Parks and Rec. So it's been a hectic summer with nine bodies of water, 240 staff. So yeah, sometimes it's it's you know, more of let's strike while the iron's hot, let's get it on the books before that time slot goes away. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

I hear you. I hear you. Well, I appreciate you coming back very much and making some time for me because I know you're busy and I it this year has not slowed down. I cannot believe so this episode's gonna air in August, but where has the year gone?

SPEAKER_06 12:39

Nat Natalie, I don't know. One thing that's been consistent with every with every one of my peers I've talked to in the industry is that this year, and nobody can put a finger on it, but it's something about this year. It started in January. It hasn't been bad for anybody. It's been hectic. And I'm hearing that over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Yeah. I I mean, it just completely flew by. I I yeah, it was just uh it it feels like it feels like it was just March, but now it's already almost August. And I mean it's crazy. And I I keep telling myself, I'm like, okay, well, in six weeks' time I'll be uh I'll be in the water in my first uh in my first race. And before I know it, it'll be my second and my third, and all of a sudden it's gonna be cold outside. So this this year is just flying by.

SPEAKER_06 13:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Crazy. It is so almost goodbye to 2026. Hello, 2027. But before that, let's uh let's bust some uh some uh cold water uh myths, if you will. Yeah, let's do what it sounds like with uh yes, yes, yes, yes. And you know, let's start with a a pretty, I would say a big one. And it's that cold water kills bacteria. And you know, I think a lot of people tend to assume that because the water is so cold, that bacteria and other pathogens simply can't survive, or that, you know, they're they're somehow less of a concern than they are in a traditional pool or spa.

SPEAKER_06 14:10

Yeah. Well, you know, it's real interesting in that we we make these wonderful assumptions, right? Right. If you so there's a lake underneath Antarctica, right? It's a freshwater lake. And in Antarctica, I want to just kind of rephrase it, right? This isn't Honolulu. When researchers drilled through the lake and penetrated it, they found microbes, they found bacteria. So bacteria are hardy little buggers that can survive all sorts of of climates and temperatures and uh, you know, cold water venues, not not immune from that, right? And then we're also not talking about freezing water, right? If we were talking about freezing the water and taking it to uh, you know, zero degrees Celsius or into the negatives Fahrenheit, then maybe we could have a conversation about bacteria death and non-bacteria destruction for those cold temperatures, but we're we're not taking them that cold.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:11

So yeah, I mean it's very much bacteria is present in these things.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Right, right. Well, and you know, cold water it it doesn't sanitize itself. No. Yeah, yeah, definitely uh and I I think again people tend to think, oh, well the water's colder, so it there's not gonna be um those little buggers aren't gonna be there, but as you just stated, they're still there.

SPEAKER_06 15:34

You know, the only benefit we get from a bacteriological standpoint is that every you know, water is a metabolism, right? And and we can look at it like a metabolism. When you have a spa and you have hot water, you have a very fast metabolism. When you have cold water, you have a slow metabolism. So you may not necessarily see the growth that you would in a spa due to that slow metabolism. But yeah, if you leave this thing long enough, it's going to get bacteria, it's going to get fog, it's going to develop biofilm, it's going to develop pseudonyms.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know there's a you know, in the fitness world, I know a lot of people tend to have these uh these these throw-up cold plunge uh tubs that they have in their garages. And, you know, some people they go out to um, what is it? Oh gosh, uh, Rural King, and they can buy those makeshift uh large bins and they'll just put them in their garage or out in the back, and they'll put the hose out there and they'll just put pounds and pounds of ice and they'll just jump in that and they'll just leave the water out there and they'll just keep adding ice. And I'm like, you have to check on the water. You can't just keep getting in it.

SPEAKER_06 16:46

No, no, no, you can't. So definitely, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

It's it it's I mean, cold water, it doesn't eliminate bacteria. If it if anything, it makes proper water treatment even more important.

SPEAKER_06 16:59

Yeah. 100%. I think we'll talk about it a little bit later. But yeah, that's that's the big thing is almost with cold water, you have to be a little bit more diligent. Yes. Because, you know, we talked about water being um, you know, the metabolism of the water, so to speak, right? So just as bacteria growth, bacteriological growth may slow down, we see the same impact on sanitizers and disinfectants where the sanitizing ability slows down when the water temp gets lower and lower and lower and lower.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Right. Yeah. Well, it's I mean, it it's scary. Yeah. Definitely scary. So here's here's another one. Um, and definitely goes back to I think those people that have these, you know, in their garage or outside. And it's if only one person is in the tub, the water quality isn't a concern. And I I hear this actually quite a bit because I think, again, people assume that, you know, many of these systems are designed for a single user because contamination, it's not much of an issue.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

Yeah, you know what that's we're gonna bust that when that's FOSS, right? When you look at a research unit at home that's not being shared, right? It's not that we're not concerned about water quality, it's not that we're not concerned about uh, you know, pathogens. We're not concerned about an outbreak. Right. Because that one person, same thing with FOSS, right? If they don't take care of it and they don't maintain it, and they let biofilm grow in and they let pseudonomas latch in, right? And they get these other diseases and pathogens and things that float around, you know, literally in the water, it's gonna impact them, not anybody else. Right. You know, but it doesn't mean that these things aren't a concern from a pathogen standpoint.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Right. Well, and I mean you have to think too, your your sweating, your body oils, your uh your cosmetics, right? I mean, the days that I'm doing heavy uh a lot of miles, am I gonna be putting on as much makeup? Probably not. Let's be honest. No makeup at all. I don't have time for that. But on the days maybe I where I have a lighter swim and I'm have a lot of on-camera time, yeah, I'm gonna probably have some makeup on, some hairspray in my hair. But if I get in that that uh cold plunge, all that's gonna come out. And if I'm not pro Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:25

Yeah, exactly. And and and we don't we don't we don't realize that burden that puts on the water, right? So you know, if let's let's just kind of stay in the home theme for now. If you have someone that they have a cold plunge at their house, right, and it's a single use and it's you know, maybe it's moderately taken care of, or they just fill it with water and keep chunking ice in it, right? Well, they're not showering before they get in this thing. So they're going out, they're doing crossfit, right? They're doing HIIT training, they're doing heavy lifts, right? Maybe they're prepping for a triathlon, right? And they've swam at a pool, then they did a bike ride, now they've done their run, and they come home and they hop right into the cold plunge, right? Well, that's putting in sweat, that's putting in urea, right? All of those things go in and it creates this contamination burden, even on the cold water. So, you know, yeah, we gotta account for all of those factors when when we look at these.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Well, and I can tell you right now from a previous episode I did with Jared on how, you know, showering before entering a pool, commercial and residential. I can tell you right now, those people are not showering before they're getting into those cold plunges. They're just getting in completely sweaty, clothes on, they're getting right in. I mean, you see on social media, you see all of these um fitness influence, you know, influencers. They're they're working out, they're doing the thing, and then it shows them getting in, you know, sports bra shorts or just shorts on. They're not they're not showering off before, they're just getting right in. So yeah, all of that's gonna continuously accumulate. And, you know, a single user doesn't mean contamination free, guys. Come on now.

SPEAKER_06 21:06

The only you know, the only upside really from uh uh a you know disease outbreak from a contamination burden standpoint is and people not showering is you're generally not submerging your head. Yeah. So you're generally not going to get the water in your mouth. So you don't have to worry about, you know, fecal matter, right? You don't have to worry about those pathogens, GRDA, coli, crypto, cyclosora, right, to a certain degree, right? You don't have to worry about those being ingested because you're not submerged. Right. But the other thing too is we look at these things and people think, oh, it's cold water, there's no bacteria, there's no pathogen. It's just mine, right? So they go on their run, their run, right? They do their century ride on their bike and they come in, they hop sweaty, right? Maybe they've had diarrhea, you know, in a gas station bathroom on their century ride, right? And they hop right in wearing their bike shorts. Well, now all of a sudden you've introduced fecal matter, likely some sort of gastroissue, right? It's likely some sort of a enteric bug into your own spold plunge. Yeah. And now your kid gets in, right? Because Lord knows all children obey all the rules, right? So yeah. He gets in, they drink some water. Well, now your kid goes and is poorly disinfectant, poorly maintained cold plunge because it's ice water. It's not gonna carry germs. And they go to the local splash pad. And next thing you know, they've let a little bit of poop out that didn't get caught, and now you've just infected, you know, a thousand kids at a splash pad with crypto.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Yep. Well, and I'll tell you this too. Actually, I have a lot of friends that do the cold plunges and they do have them at their house. And 90% of them do dunk their head after they do their their you know four or five minutes.

SPEAKER_06 23:06

Ooh, yeah. I'd I wouldn't I would not recommend doing that. Um let's take crypto, let's take all the enteric stuff out, let's take the big bad bugs out. Let's go back and let's take take away the enteric diseases, take away all those fun little nasty bugs we see, and let's just stick with the most common illness caused by pools in the United States. Swimmer's ear. Mm-hmm. Swimmer's ear. We know that from uh a study that came out several years ago, that the rate of swimming pool-related swimming ear issues, swimmer's ear and ear infections is not insignificant, right? And it's all class pseudonomas, which they're gonna line that piping, they're gonna line those surfaces in this poorly maintained cold cold water venue, cold plunge, and you're gonna stick your head in. And the little pseudonomas are gonna make their way into your ear because it's submerged, and next thing you know, you've got a hellaceous earache, right? Swimmer's ear, a week and a half later.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had uh I know someone that she she went to um a facility just to kind of get away. And uh she had told me, she said, Oh yeah, in the afternoons, we all did cold plunges. It was like a fitness, it was like a fitness getaway thing. Uh uh, there's a word for it and it's escaping me. Swimmer's brains, a thing, a retreat. There you go. And, you know, they it was like a couples retreat, and at the end of it, um, in the afternoons before they had dinner, they all went out and they did a cold plunge. They all, none of them were showering, and I was like, okay. And they all the the goal was to be in there, I think it was for five minutes, right? And at the end, they all dunked their head and they were not cleaning the container. Um, they filled it up with hose water, and then they would fill, they would put, you know, buckets and buckets of ice in it. And then I asked her, I was, and because when she finished the retreat, I think it was like a four or five day retreat. And at the end, she had told me, she goes, you know, we had a really nice time, but we both, you know, my husband and I got really sick at the end. And I said, Well, okay, well, you know, started asking her questions. And I said, Well, did you both do the cold plunge? She goes, Yeah, we did it every single day. And I said, Well, tell me a little bit more about it. But there were just, you know, lines and lines of people going in these cold plunges. None of them were showering. And at the end of it, she said all they did was drain it. I don't think she said she saw them ever cleaning out the tub.

SPEAKER_06 25:44

Oh, good lord. Yeah, that thing was nasty as I'll get out.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Oh, yeah. And again, they had all worked out before they had gone in this cold plunge. And then the other thing too, she said, Oh, yeah, they went and hung out in the sauna. Some people went in the sauna and then the cold plunge. And I was like, okay, so where did you go so I know not to ever go? Yep. I mean, it it's scary, the myths out there. It I I mean, I'm glad she had a great time, but now she knows. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

She found it. You know, the other thing too for people listening, especially, you know, you if you're a pool pro, you know, you're hearing a lot of the horror stories in order to improve and be better and and have safer waters and healthier waters. But there's gonna be some folks that they're not in the full industry. They just listen because they're adjacent, right? They're a competitive swimmer, right? They're a trahlete, they have a residential pool, a home pool, right? You know, the big thing is we're we're saying these kind of horror stories, and it can be scary, like a spa, right? It can be really scary, and we can come up with some really, really bad, bad stories. But there's a huge butt, right? But if you maintain the system, if you do proper maintenance, proper cleaning, right? And you have good practices, then likely, right, there's a high chance that you won't get sick. There's a high chance that it would be healthy. And that's kind of where this guidance comes from, right? That that CMAC release, because there was nothing that existed before.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

There's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm again, I'm very thankful this resource is out there because with this new fad, people just don't know, you know, and again, they just follow. So you you you need to be educated. Well, switching, you know, from residential, let's let's kind of switch gears to commercial. And some think that a commercial cold plunge is basically just a fancy bathtub. And, you know, I think this is another misconception because from the outside, they can look pretty simple. But, you know, if you look at the guidance, it's obvious that they're clearly much different than a bathtub, right? Can you kind of, you know, from can you explain uh what really separates a commercial cold water venue from something you have at home?

SPEAKER_06 28:01

Well, the big thing is the number of people, right? So same thing for a backyard pool. It's it's the it's the the bather load, right? So you have your coal plunge at your house, use it, maybe you use it daily, maybe use it every other day, right? Maybe you only use it when you know you're doing those those those big hit sessions. Well, the thing is with the commercial coal plunge, everybody's doing that every day. So it's just the sheer volume, right? So yeah, if you have one at home, can you fill it every day, throw a bunch of ice in, get in it, drain it, let it dry, and you know, what are the real odds of getting seriously ill? Fair to Midland.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

Right? Unless you submerge. But, you know, with commercial cold plunges, commercial venues, you're sharing this with, you know, if you have one person in for 10 minutes and it's a recirculated system, then that's six people an hour. You're open 12 hours a day. So we're up to what, 72 people a day uh times seven days a week, right? So we're up to what 500 people using that one cold plunge in a week.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 29:18

Right. Uh, and that's just a single user cold plunge. Right. You have a larger cold plunge like at an athletics facility, right? For uh, you know, let's say the Alabama Crimson Tide, right? Or University of Tennessee, or uh the Atlanta Falcons. You know, that's not a single use, that's three, four, five athletes getting in on a regular basis. Right. Right. So that's that's the big difference. It's the load.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_06 29:48

And when you change the load, you've got to change your practices.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Right. Right. And actually, I don't know of any of too many commercial facilities that have cold plunges.

SPEAKER_06 29:58

No, not really. No, we we see them more in your high-end athletic facilities.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Yeah, I would say specialized.

SPEAKER_06 30:06

Yeah. We don't see them as much in your YMCAs, your lifetime fitnesses. Well, you might see them more in like your mom and pop, you know, fitness centers, you know, that's owned by the local, you know, power lift or something like that. Right. But yeah, you really don't see them that often right now in in your run-of-the-mill, you know, kind of big name centers.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Yeah. I was gonna, yeah, because I I mean I I attend the the loc we have here in Knoxville, which is huge. If you've never visited Knoxville, it's huge. I think there's uh five different five different local uh IMCAs. There's one that I attend, and I think two of them have tanning. I don't tan, but um, yeah, I don't think I've ever I've ever seen a cold plunge. Um, but they do have, you know, they have those special like hit gyms here, and then they have the outdoor CrossFit. I think they do have a cold plunge.

SPEAKER_06 31:03

Yeah, you're more likely to see them there than you are, you know, your average fitness center.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Yep, yep. Well, let's keep going. So another one is that you can manage a cold plunge just like a spa. And I could, I guess I could understand why someone would think that, you know, they're both relatively small bodies of water. But again, the guidance points out that operating a cold water venue presents its own unique challenges. So let's talk about it. So, what are some of the biggest differences operators should understand when they're managing a cold plunge?

SPEAKER_06 31:34

Well, the the biggest difference is again, we go back to that metabolism concept, right? Right. When you have a spa, you know, the water metabolizes out your water chemistry like crazy, right? Um, I've ran spas before, I've managed spas before. It's not my favorite thing to do. They're, you know, kind of a a PETA, you know, to me. Yeah. Um because the water chemistry is just so volatile. Right? You throw the the cold water, you're at the other end of the spectrum, the polar opposite. The water chemistry, because it's cold, is equally challenging because nothing dissolves that well, right? Right. So you have all the uh the issues getting your balancing agents in, right? Getting that water quality where it should be per your LSI, et cetera, et cetera. And the other thing that we talked about earlier, right, is your disinfection. You know, the the interesting thing is we don't have at least none immediately available, right? We don't have tons of disinfection data on very cold water. Right. So we don't really know how effective chlorine is at the end of the day at those water temperatures, right? We have some proxies that can kind of tell us, right? We know, we know that it slows down, right? But at what rate is still needing research. So that makes it just as challenging as a spa. You know, because you might have what you think is adequate chlorine, right? But, you know, if your pH creeps up 7.6, 7.7, for example, which is in the range, right? Easy brain chemistry or even just the the public health values, right? 7.7 is still in range, right? Right. But the effect of that chlorine might be almost zero.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:37

Um, you know, so it's really interesting in that you have this pendulum swing from overworking, over-metabolizing, burns out really quickly, to you can't really dissolve, you can't really sanitize, right? You you have to do the extra work. Right. Um so for me, just looking at the data and the design and the water chemistry aspect, right? I'm a southerner, you're a southerner, right? We're in sweet tea land. Yes, we are. Every good southerner knows you can't add sugar to cold tea. It won't dissolve. Correct.

unknown 34:13

Right.

SPEAKER_06 34:14

It's got to be done when it's hot, right? Right. So just kind of looking at that, for me, I dare say that coal plunges are even more challenging than hot tubs.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

I would defin I would have to agree with that, because the lower the lower temperatures, I mean, it it's just it it it makes it that much more difficult.

SPEAKER_06 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

That much more.

SPEAKER_06 34:36

The lower temperatures also get into some challenging nuance, right? Right. So let's take uh, you know, maximum or the minimum water temp right. What's the lowest you can go? Yes, absolutely plausible that they can use this without any significant health risk that's the key word, right? Significant health risks. Right.