Talking Pools Podcast

How to stretch your pool chlorine supply

July 23, 2021 Rudy & Andrea, Swimming Pool Season 1 Episode 10
Talking Pools Podcast
How to stretch your pool chlorine supply
Show Notes Transcript


Chlorine continues to be scarce. Supply and demand are kicking our pool budget's ass. If we can't get more, it makes sense to make what we do last longer. In fact, if we take the right steps, it is possible to make our current stock of swimming pool chlorine last as much as three to five times longer.

In this one, Rudy and Andrea talk about those things that you can do to stretch the chlorine supply you have without breaking the bank. 

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Transcript 

Speaker 1 

Hi, my name is Rudy. 

Speaker 2 

And I'm Andrea. 

Speaker 1 

Are you sure? 

Speaker 2 

No, I'm feeling weird today. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

And this is the Talking Pools podcast. Welcome to the show. I'm excited. 

Speaker 2 

Hey everybody, yeah are you? 

Speaker 1 

No, not really. I mean, I'm actually I'm actually in kind of a bad mood. 

 

 

Speaker 2 

Me too. 

Speaker 1 

Are you what what's missing? What's ******* you? 

Speaker 2 

Yeah well yeah. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 2 

I don't know. Just like I said earlier, well, we're doing 2. We're doing 2 episodes today, but I just just everything. 

Speaker 1 

That's ******* you off. 

Speaker 2 

No, not that not that just everything that happens to me like just it's been. Yeah, you have one of those days where like you wake up irritated. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 2 

And then just all kinds of irritating stuff happens to you. And then you try your best not to be irritated about it because it's just little things and you know you're going overboard. 

Speaker 2 

Or at least, like maybe kind of blowing things out of proportion a little bit in your own mind. I'm not talking about. 

Speaker 2 

Blowing up on the lady for giving you the wrong donut or something like that. Just you know the earphone issue that I'm having, just my my my actual phone issue that I'm having my battery on. My laptop is now going out just everything I want. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

What skin lady would have Donuts? 

Speaker 2 

Oh, I don't know. 

Speaker 1 

Wow, OK so. 

Speaker 1 

I don't even know where to go alright. Well here like, here's the. Here's the cool stuff, so I decided I was going to try some. 

Speaker 1 

Something new and this is something that's been bouncing around in my head for a little while. I decided that I was going to put together a bog terrarium. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 2 

Oh, I saw your post. 

Speaker 1 

I know, right? So it's going to be a bog which is bog terrarium and a bog is somewhere in between regular ground and a swamp. 

 

 

Speaker 2 

OK, I knew it swamp had something to do with it. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

Super nutrient poor soil, right? 

Speaker 1 

Uhm, it's usually they're put together with carnivorous plants, and that's what I'm doing, so I've I've got this tank where it opens up in the front and I put down a layer of horticultural charcoal so that way the water, 'cause it has to be wet. Obviously not swamp wet, but you know, kind of. Like if you walked across. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

Bushy land wet. 

Speaker 2 

Gotcha, OK? 

Speaker 1 

Like after a rain how a lawn feels when you're pulling your card across it and you just kind of sinking in, but it's not really puddled so it's got to be kind of like that. 

 

Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker 1 

So I put charcoal at the bottom so that way it doesn't stink and then then the soil itself has to be nutrient poor because it's the poor nutrients that actually caused the plants to evolve. 

Speaker 1 

To the point that they have to be nervous carnivorous to get the nutrients that they need. 

Speaker 1 

So that's why they eat bugs. It's just because the soil conditions were poor, but over hundreds and hundreds of whatever years they evolved to this point that now you know they have to eat the bugs so so the soil can't. So my soil can't have nutrients in it. 

 

Oh, really. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

Did not know that. 

Speaker 1 

Other, it'll screw everything up. 

Speaker 2 

So you just put what like dead grass in there. 

 

 

 

 

Speaker 1 

No, I have. I made a mixture of peat Moss. 

 

Right? 

Speaker 1 

Perlite, perlite like we use in filters. Yes vermiculite and then sand. 

 

 

Speaker 2 

Say it again because you were you lagged on me. I'm sorry you said Peatmoss. 

Speaker 1 

Peat Moss perlite like we use in filters. 

Speaker 2 

Huh, yeah. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

And sand, he said, for what florists we used to use it? 

Speaker 2 

Socks are floors, right? 

Speaker 2 

Does that make you like they know? 

 

Why I was saying that? 

Speaker 1 

We use teeth. 

Speaker 1 

Most of those things, three of the things that we, three of the things that I just mentioned, are things that we used to use underneath Winer, of above ground pools. 

Speaker 2 

Sorry Rudy. 

Speaker 2 

That's what I was going to say. The vermiculite is. 

Speaker 2 

What I was thought of. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

Peat Moss before vermiculite. And now they're using sand, right? 

Speaker 2 

Oh I guess so yeah. 

Speaker 1 

So if you if you install above ground pools and sand is not what you're using now, send us an email because we think it's sand so but I don't install. 

Speaker 1 

All above ground pools, so I think though but. 

Speaker 1 

Above ground pools, so I think though but. 

Speaker 2 

And yeah, we don't see many of them now. 

Speaker 1 

So that's what I made the substrate out of, so I have this charcoal in the tank. I'm sitting there now. I gotta wait for rain water. 

Speaker 2 

OK, my rainwaters. 

Speaker 1 

And of course, obviously because it needs either rainwater or distilled water. I can't use tap water because again, I want to mimic what's going on in the environment, so of course now since I put this together, guess what it hasn't done. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

That's not great. 

Speaker 1 

But that's not. That's not why I'm grumpy. So anyway, there's no plants in it just yet, but I'll, I'll post my progress as I go along. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

So right now it's just filled with dirt. I do have one plant that's chilling out under a UV light. 

Speaker 1 

It's a primrose butterwort. It's not a very large plant, but it's a. It is a carnivorous plant. I do have more on the way so I should end up with pitcher plants and things along those lines and have my own little, you know, shop of Horrors terrarium going on here, so that's that's my goal. Yeah, and you know, and it's gonna feed itself. I'm just gonna put it on the back. 

 

 

Speaker 2 

Nice, yeah, that sounds really cool. 

Speaker 1 

Patio where the bugs are. 

Speaker 1 

And let it eat. 

Speaker 2 

I was I was going to ask where you were going to put it. So like do you? 

Speaker 1 

He see I do know I do have a screen patio, but there's still bugs anyway. There's always bugs, so I'm gonna put it back out there and and part of the reason I wanted it in a tank instead of just a bowl is because when we reach the winter months then I can bring it in and I can just put pinhead crickets in there that I can get from the. 

Speaker 2 

Have a screen patio or you could be like a garden, yeah? 

Speaker 2 

 

 

 

Speaker 1 

That store 

Speaker 2 

Oh cool, and then just distilled water. 

Speaker 2 

Oh cool, then just distilled water. 

Speaker 1 

And let them eat those yeah. And then I'll feed and I'll feed them throughout the week, right? So if I plan for the winter months, but that's not why, I'm grumpy. 

Speaker 2 

Hold on, do you have to change out the water at all or does it just filter itself? Sorry I just thought of that. 

Speaker 1 

Just going to take care of itself. The plants that use most of it, it'll evaporate. Yep, I should be in good shape, but. 

Speaker 2 

The charcoal does that. 

Speaker 2 

Charcoal does that. 

Speaker 2 

OK cool cool cool. 

Speaker 1 

That's not why I'm cranky. That's not why. Well, I'm not cranky. I'm just in a bad mood. That's not. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

Why I'm being a bad mood. 

Speaker 1 

I'm in a bad mood because. 

Speaker 1 

The fire. 

Speaker 1 

Bleeding never stops with this shortage **** 

Speaker 2 

Oh God, yes, sure. 

Speaker 1 

It's aggravating as fun, isn't it? I mean, seriously, there is nothing that we have. 

Speaker 2 

Yeah it is. 

Speaker 2 

Yeah it. 

Speaker 2 

Yeah, I mean we talked about it before and I had gone through not been able to get acid not being able to get acid. Uh, so I had to buy sulfuric acid and that was just terrible for me. I hated it. 

Speaker 1 

It's it's well, you know what and in some places they can't get sulfuric acid or sodium bisulfate. 

Speaker 1 

Either, so it's completely a complete shitshow where, like Avery said right shitshow, we're we're completely out of a lot of things, and I think it would probably be easier. 

 

 

 

 

Speaker 1 

I've asked folks before what are you out of, but maybe I should just ask people what they have. It would be a shorter list. 

 

Let's see. 

Speaker 2 

Yeah, I mean I keep people. I keep seeing people posting signs from their distributors of just we're out of this. 

Speaker 2 

We're out of this. We're out of this and it's basically you could stick your finger on a map and they would be out of something you know. 

Speaker 2 

And if this person is out of this, the next person is out of acid. They're out of chlorine, it just. 

Speaker 2 

It's a mess, brilliance. 

Speaker 1 

It is and, but that's why I wanted to talk about it and I don't want to talk about the shortage, really. 

Speaker 1 

Really, that's not what this one's gonna be about. I want to talk about. 

Speaker 1 

Not what this one's gonna be about. I want to talk about. 

Speaker 1 

Ways to make your current chlorine supply last longer. 

 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

We already spoke a couple of weeks back about UV and. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

Right, we spoke about salt water systems so people could, you know, install a salt cell and then that way the pool owner would create their own chlorine from the salt, right? 

 

 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

Yep, Yep. 

Speaker 1 

So and if you are a pool owner listening and you did not know that your saltwater pool is a chlorine pool, surprise, you're a chlorine manufacturer, 'cause that's what they really are. They're manufacturing chlorine in their backyard, so. 

 

 

 

 

Speaker 1 

Water, I mean really what the key the key things come down to. A couple of basics right? We need some Good Housekeeping to go on. 

Speaker 1 

The yard has to be in good shape. If you have a screwed up yard, your pool is gonna consume more chlorine. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

What I want is everybody to be able to maintain a chlorine level of one part per million throughout the rest of the year instead of the three to five parts per million that people normally carry. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

If we can go at one part per million instead of five parts per million, that means the chlorine that you have will last five times longer. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

I see where you're going. 

Speaker 1 

And that might be enough to get you through, because where's the light at the end of this tunnel, Andrea? 

Speaker 2 

I you know, I don't know it could. 

Speaker 2 

I you know, I don't know could. 

Speaker 1 

It they're telling us it's in April, April of 22 or two. Yeah, April is 22, so pretty much a year from now, right? 

Speaker 1 

I mean, the folks up north you're they're kind of lucky they're gonna close their pool down Labor Day as normal. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

So even though it's still a few months that we have to get through this, but the folks down South we're going to be open straight through. So April of 2022. And guess what? It's not gonna be like a light switch. 

Speaker 2 

Right, it's going to be a gradual thing. 

Speaker 1 

It's not like all of a sudden the market's going to be flooded with chlorine tablets. These things are going to start to be delivered, but it's going to be a process. 

Speaker 1 

 

 

 

Speaker 1 

I would guess that we're probably going to have a lot of hiccups throughout 2022 as well, and maybe by the end of that season. Fingers crossed things are running smooth again, but until then. 

Speaker 1 

We need to do something to help our existing chlorine supply. 

Speaker 1 

Last, I don't mean you know at the manufacturers. I mean at home level, at pool, professional level. If you're an Aquatics pro at your facility, if you run a water park there. 

Speaker 1 

If you're a hotel engineer or an apartment maintenance tech at those facilities, this is where we need the chlorine supply to last. What you've purchased has to last. 

Speaker 1 

Longer and if you can operate at one part per million instead of five, and keep your pool, algae and bacteria free, your chlorine supply will last five times. 

Speaker 1 

Longer that makes sense. 

Speaker 2 

But that's super tricky. It does make sense. It absolutely makes sense, but uhm, I'm gonna have to go and say, like I don't see how. 

Speaker 2 

I would be able to run some of the correct. Well, I shouldn't say the commercials because those are constantly fed every day. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

One, one part per million would be really hard. 

 

 

Speaker 2 

Is in my area. 

Speaker 2 

Especially with the rain and the sunlight. 

Speaker 1 

Well, it depends you're talking about. 

Speaker 1 

Yeah, but you're talking about how you're adding stuff though too, aren't you? 

Speaker 1 

I mean on the one a week 'cause you're you're using. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

Liquid, correct? 

Speaker 2 

Well, that's for that's why for residential, yeah, I retract, I retract the commercial side of it, because those are those are fed every day. And you know, adding you can easily maintain that. That I don't think that would be an issue. 

Speaker 1 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

Well, it's not an issue. Realistically there is a solution here. Why are your commercial pools being fed every day? 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

What enables them to do that? 

Speaker 2 

Uh, the automation and all the anatomical control. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

You nailed it and are these things not available for residential pools? 

Speaker 2 

They are available, but they are, you know, obviously extra costs and. 

Speaker 2 

You still have to fill the chemical tanks. 

Speaker 1 

You're looking at maybe two years of this. Like I said, at least one possibly two years. Do you not think it would be advantageous for the pool owners to purchase automation? 

Speaker 2 

Oh, I'm not. 

Speaker 2 

I didn't mean to disagree with you. 

Speaker 1 

No no, no no. I'm not yelling at you. 

Speaker 2 

But no, it it would be. 

Speaker 2 

But it it would be. 

Speaker 2 

It sounds like it. 

Speaker 2 

Like it? 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

Jammet, Andrea. 

Speaker 2 

Yeah, I think it's just your volume, it's just your volume is turned up on my side. But no, no that that would be a pretty good a decent solution. I mean, if. 

Speaker 2 

They're if it's. 

Speaker 1 

That would be the perfect solution. 

Speaker 2 

If it's maintained, you know if the customers take care of everything. I'm just playing the devil's. 

Speaker 1 

Automation is the perfect solution, but again, you're right. You know what you have to get the customer sold on this, but most people now know it's trying times. 

Speaker 1 

And in trying times you write desperate times call for desperate measures. I wouldn't say it's a desperate measure, but as long as these forms of automation, these liquid feeders exist, why not? 

 

 

Speaker 1 

Have your customers purchase them from you and install them and then when you go out, instead of dumping a carboy of bleach into the pool and having it last a week, you could dump the carboy of bleach into the liquid feeder and then have it pump out a steady volume over the week. 

Speaker 1 

Wouldn't that then? 

Speaker 2 

You know you you have completely just sold me because I just I have several pools where this would be a miracle solution. 

Speaker 2 

So yeah, it took me a second to to wrap my brain around that. But yeah, I mean like I said, as long as the customer has, I mean some people you don't want touching things 'cause some people will break. 

Speaker 1 

Wouldn't it, though? 

Speaker 2 

This stuff would mess up your whole system. 

Speaker 1 

So they they shouldn't. They don't need to touch them. You touch them. That's why you're there. 

 

Yeah, we got you. 

Speaker 1 

I mean, I guess if if you're a homeowner and you're on your own and you don't have a pool service company, then yeah, you'll be touching it. 

Speaker 1 

But outside of that, you know. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

Don't touch it. 

Speaker 2 

No, I get you. It's a. It's a pretty good solution. I I agree with you, I retract my previous statement. 

Speaker 1 

So all right? So automation would be huge. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

What is it? Three 400 bucks. I know that sounds like a lot of money, but it's three 400 bucks. 

Speaker 1 

Look at the price of a bucket of chlorine tablets on the Internet. It's three 400 bucks is nothing. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 2 

I mean, those are pretty close to three 400 bucks right now anyway. 

Speaker 1 

We got to start changing the way that we do things. Understand things like this can happen. The pandemics been a. 

Speaker 1 

Is completely screwed up everything and it's not just the pool industry, so we can't just fault pool industry manufacturers. It's every industry that are facing shortages. Everything from car manufacturers because they can't get those chips. 

Speaker 1 

So we. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

Right, there's you cited the pickle shortage. There's actually rumors of a coffee shortage. 

Speaker 2 

Oh, really. 

Speaker 2 

That's right. 

Speaker 2 

Oh no. 

Speaker 1 

There's there is a list of shortages that are going on toilet paper, legit shortage right now. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

Doesn't mean these things aren't in the shelves, it just means there's limited supply. So if people start running around and getting all buck nutty and giggy with it then we could be back in that position. 

Speaker 2 

Well, as soon as you say shortage then you trigger all the hoarders. 

Speaker 1 

Only the ones that listen to us. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

Well, I guess that would be me. 

Speaker 1 

So you're going to go out and board so. 

Speaker 2 

Everything we just listed, I'm going to go. 

Speaker 1 

All right? 

Speaker 2 

By just kidding. 

Speaker 1 

So we want to maintain that lower chlorine level and we want to do it successfully. So to do it successfully, we might need a little extra help. 

Speaker 1 

Because of one part per million chlorine levels, kind of on the low side. 

 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

Even though it's perfectly acceptable, we go with automation. So that way we can get that continuous flow. And if you're not using liquid and you already have some type of other feeder, if you have Cal Hypo and you're using a Cal Hypo feeder, same trichlor. If you do have. 

Audio file 

Algastat 32.wav 

 

Transcript 

Speaker 1 

Set it so that we're using one part per million of chlorine instead of the higher levels, and to help it. 

Speaker 1 

We're going to take a look at some algae stats and some specialty chemicals because this is where those things really excel and I'm not. I'm not always a fan of these items. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

I was always a minimalist when I would go out in service pools. I would add chlorine, pH and alkalinity adjusters. 

Speaker 1 

That was my thing. And then occasionally I would go with specialty chemicals. But this is a different time and these things can help us. Like for example, what about phosphate removers? 

Speaker 1 

Are you one that believes in phosphates? 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 3 

I OK, so I actually kind of. Well yes I am team phosphate remover but I am also team. It only matters until it matters. So I I don't know. I don't know if I can be on those same two teams. 

Speaker 1 

OK, explain. 

Speaker 3 

So I used to do, you know, phosphate treatments at the drop of a hat because you know, especially if I was having trouble holding chlorine, that would be usually my. 

 

 

Speaker 3 

Uhm go to. I would immediately test the phosphates and then I would have a high high level or even like 500. 

Speaker 1 

Go to. 

Speaker 3 

I would treat so like I used to do a lot of phosphate treatments and basically I got real tired of vacuuming to weights. 

Speaker 1 

Vacuuming the waste because some of the brands will precipitate to the floor even though they're not supposed to. 

Speaker 4 

 

Speaker 3 

Yes, I I haven't found one that is that reliably doesn't. I don't know if we're talking about brands, but there are a couple. There are a couple that I like that don't cause as much. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 3 

Crap in the pool that you have to vacuum out. 

Speaker 1 

Crap in the pool again with it's the technical terms there crap crap in the pool. 

Speaker 2 

Yeah so, but. 

Speaker 3 

There we go. Yes I am. 

Speaker 3 

We go yes I am. 

Speaker 3 

Always, I'm always about my concern. 

Speaker 4 

 

Speaker 3 

But then I started to just kind of investigate other reasons why I might not be holding chlorine instead of just immediately jumping to the phosphate removers. 

Speaker 3 

And so yeah, that's my stance on that. Now it's like I've had. I've had pools where I haven't had chlorine. 

Speaker 3 

I have tried breakpoint, I've tried, you know, algicide. I've tried whatever clean the filter and it just still will not hold chlorine and then that's when I get out the test kit and if it's. 

Speaker 3 

Most of them turn a blue color. I don't know if there are other ones that don't, but if it's a real high real dark blue, you know, depending on the actual level it is, then I will do a treatment. 

Speaker 3 

But only if I really, really, really need to. 

Speaker 1 

I was kind of the same if you've tried everything else and there's nothing left and you're still having some reoccurring problem with algi, test the phosphate levels, see where you're at. If it's over 100 parts per billion, remove the phosphates. 

Speaker 3 

There you go as 100. 

Speaker 3 

I couldn't think of this. The number is stale. 

Speaker 1 

The same thing, the same thing if you have a salt cell because the salt cell phosphates naturally coat things, so a level above 100 parts per million can actually make it harder to produce chlorine. So in that scenario, treat also now I'm older, you know from the 70s. 

Speaker 1 

So anyway. 

 

Right? 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

There was no phosphate removers. People never even said the word phosphate related swimming pools. The 1st 10 years I was in the industry then these. 

Speaker 3 

That's a favorite argument of the team. Phosphates don't matter, people is that they've been doing it for. 

Speaker 3 

67 years apparently, and have never. 

Speaker 3 

Used phosphate remover. 

Speaker 1 

67 years well, and that's the thing they haven't, and they've been doing fine, but this is what I want to say. Whether you are on playing team phosphates or team, what did you call it? Not phosphate remover whatever. 

Speaker 3 

Team phosphates don't matter. 

Speaker 1 

No matter what your stance is this year, get the phosphates out of the water because it will enable you to use a lower chlorine level. 

Speaker 1 

For Noah, if for no other reason, if you're above 100 parts per billion, go out. Get yourself some phosphate remover, add it to the pool. Get that level below 100 parts per billion. It will help you to use less chlorine. 

 

Right? 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 1 

What else? What do you think? What about Boris? Have you heard much about borates? 

Speaker 3 

I've heard a lot of or a lot about borates. I have unfortunately not had the chance to. 

Speaker 3 

Use them so I don't have no experience. 

Speaker 3 

I hadn't. 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

You're not a borate user. OK, but that's fine. You work for somebody. You can only put in pools. What they let you put in pools. 

Speaker 1 

Somebody you can. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 3 

Yes, and I can only buy what the what the. 

Speaker 3 

Owner wants to buy so. 

Speaker 1 

Right, so that's understandable. So Bouret, it's the main reason we use borates in pools. 

Speaker 4 

 

Speaker 1 

Is to buffer the pH against an upward drift. What happens when you put it in the water? Is it it creates a buffer? 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

So essentially, things that are in the water that would cause the pH to go up the borate in the water changes it into something else that doesn't drive the pH upward. That's the main reason we use it, but. 

Speaker 1 

A borate level also serves as an allergist at Al. Just act. 

Speaker 3 

Can you explain to me? 

Speaker 3 

Oh, you were just about to I'm sorry. 

Speaker 1 

When Analogised, that is why certainly. 

Speaker 3 

Well, the difference between. 

Speaker 3 

The difference between allergist and algicide. Because I. 

Speaker 3 

Don't really know. 

Speaker 3 

Don't really know. 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 4 

Andrea has just asked Rudy to explain the difference between an alga stat and an algae side. 

Speaker 3 

You're not going to get very many opportunities of me admitting that I. 

 

 

Speaker 3 

Don't know something. 

Speaker 1 

I'll just that, alright, so an algicide right kills Algicide kills Alja stat prevents. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

But won't kill. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

So borate having a borate level, it serves as an allergist at. If you have existing allergy, it won't kill it. But if you have weights in the water, it will help to prevent algae from becoming established. 

Speaker 3 

So if you have. 

Speaker 3 

If you have. 

Speaker 3 

OK. 

Speaker 3 

OK, that makes sense. 

Speaker 1 

Because it pre it creates an unfavorable environment for Algy 'cause that you know what Algy becoming established is a very critical time for Algy. Once it's in there and starts to multiply, it's a lot easier. 

 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

Because it's already there, it already has a foothold, right? It would be kind of like if your landlord wanted to throw you out of your house. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

If he comes by while you're at work. 

Speaker 1 

I don't know if you rent it doesn't matter, but if he comes by while you were at work, he can toss all your **** on the lawn and lock the doors and you don't even know about it. 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 1 

You come home, you're just locked out, but if he comes by and you're in the house already established, isn't it a lot harder to throw your **** out on the lawn? 

 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 3 

Yeah, 'cause you're going to fight him. 

Speaker 1 

Exactly, so it's the same thing, so it prevents the algae from becoming established because it's. 

Speaker 1 

In the house. 

Speaker 1 

For not now. 

Speaker 3 

Someone mowing the lawn. 

Speaker 3 

No, it's in the pool. I got a lawn mower so. 

Speaker 3 

If you can hear that I follow. 

Speaker 1 

Oh that's OK, I can't, so we're good. 

Speaker 3 

My neighbor, my neighbor is Captain Captain Lawnmower. 

Speaker 1 

 

 

 

Speaker 1 

Lawn mower. 

Speaker 1 

Go back to where we were. Phosphates will first phosphates because phosphates are Algy foods, so we want to get the phosphates out of the water, right? That's of course, after we have good water balance and filtration. Filtration is also important. 

 

 

 

OK. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

Isn't it? 

Speaker 3 

It is one of the most important things actually. 

Speaker 1 

And what's the other most important thing? 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 1 

So disinfection and filtration are the two most important things, so we don't have a lot of the disinfectants. So what do we need to increase? 

 

 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 1 

Yes, so you should be running that pump more. You should run that filter more because filters remove organics from the water right? Chlorines 

 

 

Speaker 1 

When it's in the water, it tries to sanitize and disinfect all of that stuff and what happens to chlorine when it sanitizes and disinfects things. 

Speaker 2 

It uses itself up. 

Speaker 1 

It's absolutely correct, so if there's less crap in the pool to disinfect and sanitize, doesn't it make sense that it will last longer? 

Speaker 3 

It does make sense, yes. 

Speaker 1 

Ah see, what about cyanuric acid? 

Speaker 3 

You can keep it at a lower level and so then you can have more. 

Speaker 3 

The chlorine can come in contact with any contaminants instead of being held up by the cyanuric acid. 

Speaker 1 

So what Andrea is saying is basically you want to have enough in there to reduce degradation by UV from the sun right from the sun's rays, but you don't want to have so much in there that it slows down how the chlorine works. 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 3 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

What about some algicides? 

Speaker 1 

Wouldn't that help us to keep algae out of the pool or I'll just ask? We've talked about those. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah, algicides for sure so. 

Speaker 1 

Copper sulfate 

Speaker 3 

Who coppered? 

Speaker 1 

Yeah, why not? Copper copper sulfate can be used both as a alja stat and an algicide. 

Speaker 1 

Right, it can prevent algae, can't it? 

Speaker 3 

It can, I've used it before. I it comes labeled as 90 day algicide a lot of the time. Well from where I purchased it from anyway, but every time I've used it, it has turned everything white. A slight blue color. 

Speaker 1 

Slightly blue, so that would be well. There's always that possibility with in store for those, so every time you use it you put too much in. Is that what you're? 

Speaker 3 

Yeah, and overdose. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 2 

I it's a possibility. I'm not gonna deny that I said is it I was, I said, is it? 

Speaker 1 

You just said it's from a note. You did say it was from an overdose. 

Speaker 1 

I thought you diagnosed it yourself and we're just admitting everybody. Yeah, I just I just put too much of that **** in and it turned everything blue. 

Speaker 3 

 

Speaker 3 

I just I just dumped in some copper and I just left no. 

Speaker 1 

Well, after your phone party the other day. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 3 

Listen, that grout had deteriorated, deteriorated. There's no grout in that pool and I think all my soaps stuck in the grout lines and that's what happened. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

So anyway, so copper sulfate 1/2 punch all metal. 

Speaker 1 

We'll life bacteria, which means that it disrupts the cell membrane. So basically it causes the cells to spill their guts. 

Speaker 1 

But we're usually not permitted to get a high enough metal level in the water to actually kill everything. 

Speaker 1 

So we kill a little bit of it, right when if there's algae present, it's good for an allergist at. 

 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

But otherwise, if we're looking to kill, we can't add enough to be a lethal dose for the allergy because the EPA drinking water standards are at a certain point. 

Speaker 1 

Plus then we do have that possibility of staining, you know, just in case you just dump a lot in without measuring it. 

Speaker 3 

Which is definitely not what I did. 

Speaker 1 

Huh, so? 

Speaker 1 

So there so. So with that. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

The maximum acceptable level for copper is one part per million. You can't exceed that. 

Speaker 3 

And that is. 

Speaker 3 

Higher, less weight. I'm sorry the the standard for drinking water is lower than. 

Speaker 1 

Is 1.3. 

Speaker 1 

1.3. 

Speaker 1 

1.3 parts per million is actually a hair higher, but we stick to one part per million, so one part per million is the Max level of copper and what you get when you put copper and it's kind of a 12 punch. 

 

Oh, I see. 

Speaker 1 

Like I said, all heavy metals, lice, bacteria and algae cells in fact, well, all except for one. The only one that doesn't is stainless steel. So when you add the copper sulfate. 

Speaker 1 

It will lyse algae cells that are there, but not all of them because we can't put enough to kill everything but algi needs copper to produce chloroplasts so it can make that chlorophyll to perform photosynthesis, so it readily takes it in. 

 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

But if it takes in too much kind of sort of. But if it takes in too much, it actually the copper starts to interrupt the Calvin cycle, which is the method in which photosynthesis occurs, so it interferes with that process. We're making it so that it can't digest its food. 

Speaker 3 

So you're feeding it. 

Speaker 1 

Pretty much. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

So silver, same thing. Maximum acceptable amount of silver you're allowed to have. You know it's very low, it's point. 

Speaker 3 

I do not know I don't. 

Speaker 1 

 

 

Oh wow. 

Speaker 1 

0.1 parts per million. 

Speaker 1 

So any of these things that you add, whether it's the borates, the copper or the silver use. 

Speaker 1 

Is that your app? 

Speaker 1 

 

Audio file 

Algastat 33.wav 

 

Transcript 

Speaker 1 

Any of these things, whether it's. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

Any of these things that you add, whether it's the borates, the copper or the silver, you should also make sure that you own a test kit, because you should own a test kit for everything you put into that pool that a test kit exists for. 

Speaker 1 

Yes, because we have maximum acceptable levels on these right? Borates? At 50 parts per million Max copper at one part per million silver at .1. You need to be able to test that and make sure you don't exceed those levels. 

Speaker 2 

I agree. 

Speaker 2 

Thank you. 

Speaker 1 

Now phosphate removers you'll add as needed. Borates never degrades. You don't have to add more, it's one and done. 

Speaker 1 

You may have to top it off a little bit every now and then because you lose water and replace it when you backwash or from people splashing, but otherwise, it's pretty much one and done, so the initial expense. 

Speaker 1 

And then it's just tweaking it as you go. 

Speaker 2 

And then just it's kind of like cyanuric acid. 

Speaker 1 

Exactly silver and copper. 

Speaker 1 

Like Andrea said, you see them where it says 90 days or more. Some of them say six months or more. 

Speaker 1 

You will eventually need to top those off for the same reasons. It's a very, very low level that you're putting in there. 

Speaker 1 

That one part per million or that .1 part per million? So when you backwash or replace water, even if it's just a little bit at a time. 

Speaker 1 

You get rid of that silver or copper level. At least it gets much, much lower and then you get to a point where you need to add more. So those are all acceptable methods. 

Speaker 1 

Of preventing algi and a couple of them that will kill it as well. 

Speaker 2 

What about the? 

Speaker 2 

My favorite word to say ever polyquat's 

Speaker 1 

Polyquat's how do those work? 

Speaker 2 

I actually don't know. I just know that they. 

Speaker 2 

Work very well and I like using them. 

Speaker 2 

Except it smells. 

Speaker 1 

Tell me how Polyquat's work. We don't know, right? Holy, quick Polyquat's actually smug. 

Speaker 2 

I want you to tell me how it works. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

The algae cells and then cause them to implode. 

Speaker 1 

They squished, they squished the **** out of it. 

Speaker 2 

Bill mellish 

Speaker 2 

I see it's it is a heavy, gooey viscous liquid. 

Speaker 2 

So that makes sense. 

Speaker 1 

Viscous very cool alright. So yes it is a heavy, gooey viscous, but mostly it's the negative. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

The negative charge of the out? Well, that's actually it's. It's the positive charge of the polymers is what does the trick. 

Speaker 1 

So you add these things on a weekly basis. It's usually added as a preventative in small amounts, but because the polymers have a positive charge, algae cells have a negative charge. The polymers are drawn in and they surround the algae cells and they. 

Speaker 1 

Kind of squash it, they cause it to implode. 

Speaker 1 

Guess what all of this is in my book. I know you have a copy. I don't know if you've read it yet, but I know you have a copy. 

Speaker 1 

How to get rid of swimming pool Algy. It's available on Amazon.com and I also talk about it in my class. It's pool class.teachable.com there we have the Algy eradication and prevention. 

Speaker 1 

Specialist certification course. It's the only focused course in the industry. I think it's the only course on Algy in the industry, but I talk about all of this and then in a lot greater detail and a whole lot more. So check it out there. 

Speaker 1 

What about EDTA? Do you know what that is? 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

I feel like I have heard it is that that green to clean stuff Yahoo. 

Speaker 1 

Yes, they use that in their good jobs, so it's usually it's a combination of EDTA and ammonium sulfate is what they use. 

Speaker 1 

So EDTA is a disinfectant. It's a calculating age, they use the it's they actually use it as a sanitizer in hospitals. And if you use those wipes, you know this cleaning sanitizing wipes. 

Speaker 2 

Huh, yeah. 

Speaker 1 

One of them, that's not one of them, not Lysol, but Clorox brand. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 1 

That product is not a bleach wipe. It actually uses EDTA. If you look at the ingredients on it, that's what they use to sanitize with that product, so. 

Speaker 2 

You're going to make me go look at the can of lights, 'cause I'm an ingredient. 

Speaker 1 

'cause you just don't take my word for it, but that's fine. You can do it anyway. 

Speaker 2 

No, because I want to see it for myself. 

Speaker 1 

In a swimming pool, it also serves as a distant well as a key lighting agent, but one of the main things we get from that is that also you're gonna love this reduces schmier adhesion. 

Speaker 2 

I'm sorry what. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 2 

What is that? 

Speaker 1 

Shmear adhesion. 

Speaker 2 

Sounds gross. 

Speaker 1 

Sure it does, right, but alright, so you've you've dealt with black algae before. 

Speaker 2 

I have 

Speaker 1 

And certain strains of mustard allergy. 

Speaker 1 

Stick to the walls. 

Speaker 2 

Gotcha, yes I've I have experienced that. 

Speaker 1 

They've seen that. 

Speaker 1 

OK, Schmier adhesion is what gives both of those things. The ability to stick. 

Speaker 2 

That's that, makes sense that I accept that. 

Speaker 1 

So by reducing. 

 

 

Speaker 1 

Thank you by reducing schmier adhesion. 

Speaker 1 

We either if we're using it periodically, you could add a little bit as an allergist at if you wind, it's not going to stay in the water, it's just going to be one and done. 

Speaker 1 

And then you're gonna have to add more if you go that route, but it will help to prevent algae from becoming established. 

Speaker 1 

The main thing we use it for is to kill allergy when it's present, in which case what it does is it causes a lot of it to release. 

Speaker 1 

From the pool floor and wall. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

So that's what we get from from reducing schmier adhesion. The other thing that we get out of that product is the ammonium sulfate and what happens when we add ammonium sulfate to water? 

Speaker 2 

I was just. I'm still laughing at Schmier adhesion 'cause it doesn't sound like that is a technical term at all, so. 

 

What do we? 

Speaker 1 

That's the scientific word is mere schmear schmear, So what do we what? What else we? The ammonium sulfate part of that? When you add that to the water what happens is it forms monochloramine? 

 

OK. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

And we want it to. 

Speaker 1 

When we're treating algi well, one mono, chloramine has no attraction to cyanuric acid whatsoever, so it completely separates from it and stays away from it. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

So you have all of the chlorine now working even though it's not as strong mono, chloramine is still a very effective algicide. 

Speaker 1 

OK, it's actually what your water treatment centers. If you get city water, what water treatment centers use to chlorinate water is monochloramine the majority. 

Speaker 2 

So I I have tested my tap water with my pool. 

Speaker 2 

Test kit before. 

Speaker 1 

Of course you have. 

Speaker 2 

And I yeah with my. 

Speaker 1 

Because you're your Andrea. 

Speaker 2 

I am a dork, so I've I've done it with strips and with my my my blue box reagent kit and then I got a one part per million. 

 

 

 

 

Speaker 2 

Reading on the tailored kit and then I got slightly different reading on the strips, and then I. Actually, I actually googled my. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

Water treatment report. You know from the cap of the city or whatever and they. 

Speaker 1 

Right? 

Speaker 2 

That's what they use to treat the water. 

Speaker 1 

There you go, and most facilities throughout the United States use mono, chloramine to chlorinate the water so it's not a bad thing that we're creating it. 

Speaker 1 

We're using it to get rid of the alji. Then we shock again the next day when we use that product anyway. So then you're gonna be basically burning off the chloramines that you put in. 

Speaker 1 

Or that you created right, right? 

 

Yes, right? Yep, Yep. 

 

Yes Yep Yep. 

Speaker 1 

OK, so and that's how that works, so that's more so to kill it. 

Speaker 1 

 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 1 

Then you have things so you have. We already talked about your polyquat's. 

Speaker 2 

We did. 

Speaker 1 

Because that's your favorite word. Although Schmier might be replacing that. 

Speaker 2 

I you know it could, I'm gonna have to. 

Speaker 2 

Find more places to use that. 

Speaker 1 

So next time you go into the bagel shop, order a bagel and a schmear. 

Speaker 2 

I was I don't want that. 

Speaker 1 

It's just cream cheese. 

 

 

 

I mean everything bagel with a smaller, very fat cream cheese sounds delightful. 

Speaker 2 

I thought it was the salmon. 

Speaker 1 

No, that's that's flocks that flocks right? So yeah. 

Speaker 2 

Oh it's lox OK? 

Speaker 2 

I never had that. Is it good? 

Speaker 1 

I love it when I was up in New York. Yeah, every time I go up there I have to go to a delicatessen and get Nova lox on a bagel and. 

Speaker 2 

 

Speaker 2 

What's the texture like? Is it like a paste or is it like a real thin? 

Speaker 2 

Filet of what is it? 

Speaker 1 

It's hard to explain. It's not like a paste and it's. 

Speaker 2 

So is it like? 

Speaker 2 

If you go to the deli and you get a slice of pepperoni or something like that, like a salami slice, but salmon. 

Speaker 2 

OK. 

Speaker 1 

So this guy. It's softer than salami. 

Speaker 2 

OK, but it's. 

Speaker 1 

So, but not not like a squishy. 

Speaker 2 

But it's not like a paste that you actually smeared. 

Speaker 2 

Because that's what I OK. 

Speaker 1 

That would be Andrea. That's just ridiculous. That's it. I'm done with this. So this has been hours like. Once again, Andrea has driven me to the point where I'm completely finished with the show and I have to leave and get away from her so. 

Speaker 2 

Thank goodness. 

Speaker 1 

My name is Rudy. This has been our episode on Alga Stats and how you can make the chlorine in your last longer in your water and I'm gone goodbye. 

Speaker 2 

I'm sorry, I'm Andrea and I am hilarious. Oh my goodness, Brad, don't hate me, Rudy. 

 

Tell everybody goodbye. 

Speaker 2 

Goodbye everyone. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to follow like a subscribe. 

Speaker 2 

On all our socials.