Talking Pools Podcast

Natural Pools Unveiled: Andrea's Karen Encounter, Florida's Gift of Splash, and the Great Pool vs. Pond Debate!

November 24, 2023 Rudy & Andrea, Swimming Pool Season 3 Episode 418
Talking Pools Podcast
Natural Pools Unveiled: Andrea's Karen Encounter, Florida's Gift of Splash, and the Great Pool vs. Pond Debate!
Show Notes Transcript

πŸ”₯πŸŠβ€β™‚οΈ Hold on to your test kits, Pool Pros! πŸŠβ€β™€οΈπŸ’₯ In this jaw-dropping episode of Talking Pools Podcast, hosts Rudy Stankowitz and Andrea Nannini dive headfirst into the most outrageous pool tales you won't believe are true! 🀿🌴 But here's the twist – just moments before hitting the record button, Andrea finds herself in a showdown with the ultimate poolside Karen! πŸ˜±πŸ‘©β€πŸ¦³ Will she emerge victorious, or will this Karen splash disaster all over the podcast? πŸš«πŸ’¦ Meanwhile, the state of Florida is making waves by shelling out big bucks for swimming lessons for underprivileged kiddos, and the hosts wade into the debate: Are Natural Swimming Pools the epitome of luxury pools or just glorified ponds? πŸ€”πŸ’« Strap in for a wild ride, pool pals, as this episode spills the chlorine-infused tea on everything from poolside drama to the great pool-pond conundrum! πŸŽ™οΈπŸ”Š 

Microbial mystery unveiled, fecal contamination found in natural swimming pools. Recent research conducted by scientists has unveiled concerning levels of fecal contamination in natural swimming pools, a popular chlorine-free alternative. These pools celebrated for their eco-friendly approach using mechanical and biological filters were found to exceed the recommended levels for E. coli and fecal enterococci

In three out of four tested locations, the study raises questions about the efficiency of natural purification systems in maintaining water quality. The contamination traced back to wildlife, particularly birds near the pools, prompts the researchers to emphasize the need for further investigation and establishment of microbial parameters to ensure safe bathing in these increasingly popular natural pool environments.

The findings could have implications not only for private developments but also for pools with a higher bather density. This first reported in
#PoolDrama #KarenShowdown #SwimLikeAFloridaKid #Naturalpools #naturalpoolscontaminated #poolcleaning #poolservice 

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Andrea (00:00.774)
Okay, so here's the deal. No.

Rudy (00:01.271)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Talking Pools podcast. My name is Rudy Stankiewicz and I am here with the gal on the scene, out in the field, again in the cab of her truck, Miss Andrea Nanini. What's going on?

Andrea (00:17.622)
I've had... I've had the... I've had a shit day, man. I've had a shit fucking day. I'm aggravated. We'll see how this episode goes, because I'm just not in a good fucking mood. I want to punch someone. And what I was gonna try to... what I was trying to tell you is that we got to keep this short, because my battery is only at 28%. And I can't plug my phone in because of my Bluetooth microphone. My... my... see my wireless guy, my receiver for it is plugged into my charging hole. So anyway, what's wrong is that...

Rudy (00:29.163)
What's going on? What's happening? What's wrong?

Rudy (00:45.115)
So here we, well, first off, I wanna...

Andrea (00:46.662)
I had an awful encounter with a fucking customer. But I don't want to talk about it, so go ahead. You say what you were going to say. Awful shit. The worst.

Rudy (00:52.327)
Close encounter?

No, like you can't open the door and just leave it there. What happened?

Andrea (00:59.318)
the worst. It literally just happens.

Rudy (01:02.471)
Okay, that's not an answer. People wanna know, inquiring minds.

Andrea (01:06.775)
Oh my god, okay, so...

Andrea (01:12.027)
Okay, so I don't know. Ooh, see, where do I start? Do I start with backstory or do you just, let me just go right into the encounter. So.

Rudy (01:18.823)
I'm gonna start with, let me start. It's the day before Thanksgiving. That's when we're recording this. So you guys listening to it now, it's the day after Thanksgiving. So this is 4.30 in the afternoon, the day before Thanksgiving. Let's hear how Andrea's day is going right now. Andrea?

Andrea (01:23.41)
Okay, yes.


Andrea (01:33.382)
Okay. 430 in the afternoon. It's the day before Thanksgiving. Mind you, last Wednesday, there was a pretty decent storm in this area. So all my Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday pools fucked, trashed. Okay. I had pools that barely ever get anything in them that were just covered with dirt and all kinds of shit. Now this particular lady, I went to her pool on

Thursday so I already cleaned up her mess from that storm last week, but Like she's you know, whatever everybody else were still behind like nobody wants I had one lady yesterday I was like, wow, your pool is so clean. Like everybody else's pool is all dirty and she's like, yeah, I clean it myself I'm like what she's like, yeah, I didn't want all that shit sitting in my pool for a week I'm like, wow, why are why are not like can't I just have you as my customer and nobody else like

Rudy (02:22.96)

Andrea (02:29.65)
Why does nobody else do that? Like, you know, you fucking... Ah! See, there goes my phone. People with housekeepers, do you leave diarrhea in the toilet for your fucking hoist for your house cleaner? Do you leave diarrhea in the toilet for your house cleaner? Do you flush the fucking shit? Okay? Why do people think that they can just... So here, so I'm getting off track. So anyway, I cleaned her pool from the storm, but I'm behind because everybody else, like just nobody else does that. So I'm fucking behind.

Rudy (02:37.003)
because pool people are considered the janitors of the backyard.

Rudy (02:51.899)
Guess what happened today.

Rudy (02:58.641)
Got it.

Andrea (03:00.15)
We're not working tomorrow or Thursday. So I'm, there's, it's like, if I don't finish these Wednesday pools, they're going to be mad, right? So I'm at her pool, I get there and, right. Her sister's there, okay? And I've already had, this is why I was, you know, backstory or whatever, but so the sister was there cause this lady is a nurse and she has, her only day off is Wednesday. So she's usually out running errands.

Rudy (03:10.756)

Andrea (03:29.666)
So her sister's there and as soon as I walk up to the pool, I set my shit down, I get my little bottle of Jack's Surface Magic because I finally got, I finally got some from my boss. Yay, Jack's Surface Magic. That's a different topic. So it's relevant, it's relevant. Absolutely, thank you, Jacks. We love Jacks. We know Jacks, we love Jacks. Anyway, plug, so.

Rudy (03:44.775)
Again, proudly having them as a sponsor of our show, Jack's Magic Products.

Andrea (03:56.786)
I drop in my two drops of surface magic. Now, so she sits, she comes out, like after I do that, I start netting, I did the skimmer, whatever. She comes out and I see in her hand, she's got, I know it immediately because I've seen enough of these, it's a pinch of penny printout. She went to pinch of penny and got a printout. She got it in her hand and she sits down at the.

Rudy (04:17.751)
I hate that. Not pinch a penny, I just hate when people try to double check me.

Andrea (04:24.55)
Okay, so yes, that's a whole we could do a whole show on that too. So anyway, she sits down with the pinch a penny. Now, first of all, what makes the pinch a penny tech more right than me? You know what I'm saying? Like I've probably been doing it longer. I probably know a lot more than the person at, at any retail store that doesn't actually put their hands in pools. Okay. I don't know. Maybe, maybe this person that they got is an expert in pools and has worked in the industry and is at their own pool. Who the fuck, who the fuck knows? My point is.

Why are they more right than me? Like, why is that? Why do people act like the retail store is the answer key to the problem? You know what I'm saying in the back of the book? Like, that's not how this shit works. So she sits down, she starts asking, oh, do you know how many gallons this pool is? And I go, no. And she's like, well, do you have the information in the truck? And I'm like, no. So she's like, you know, asking me these questions. And I, cause her original was, oh, did you test, how are the chemicals? And I was like, I don't know yet. I haven't checked them.

So I started cleaning the pool. She's sitting there. She's like, well, I know it needs stabilizer. I'm like, okay, well, I'll check it. So then she's like, so I know the pool needs to be drained. It needed to be drained last week. And I'm like, drained? She's like, yeah, the water levels over the skimmer. It needs, and I go, okay, well, the office, I said, we don't do the water level anymore. We don't do anything to the water level. Well, who told you that? I'm like, well, my office. I don't let water out.

Rudy (05:48.631)
We're just not there long enough to do that.

Andrea (05:50.398)
I don't let water out, I don't add water to the pool unless you have a timer, or unless I'm feeling really nice and I like you and I know that I can let out enough water in the time it takes me to clean the pool. That's the only time I do it, otherwise, no. So anyway, no. So I moved on, no, I moved on from the water level, I said, you know, the office told us not to do that, okay.

Rudy (06:02.423)
Okay, don't get tied up in that. Is that what pissed her off, the water? No. No? Yes?

Andrea (06:13.934)
So then she starts asking me about the filter. So is the filter clean? Like, when do you do that? I said, I don't remember the last time I did it. I said, but I can check. I'm like, I do it about every five weeks or so, maybe. Maybe every four weeks, five weeks, something like that. And it's been a little bit longer than that. I'm not gonna lie. It's probably been like six weeks. I mean, this pool is small, whatever. There's no algae, there's no issues with it. No flow issues, nothing. She's like, well, we couldn't even get it open to see if it was bad or not.

Like that doesn't, okay, but I can get it open. Like there's no, there's like no reason. The last time I opened it was fine. So I'm like, okay, well I can do it next week cause we're behind and it's the holiday weekend and I'll get it done next week. And they kinda didn't say anything. So I had, I finished vacuuming. I finished cleaning the pool. I emptied this guy, I did everything. Cause obviously she's sitting right there. My test kit wasn't in the riptide. Okay, so I'm like, I, my test kit's back at the truck. I gotta go get it.

Rudy (07:08.847)

Andrea (07:14.274)
So I go back to the truck and I called my boss, right? And I'm like, this is the situation. This is what just happened. I know this is gonna end up being a problem. So as I'm on the phone talking to him, the homeowner, the actual lady pulls up, right? This whole time I've been dealing with her sister. So now she pulls up and we didn't interact at this point yet, like I missed her or whatever happened. So I get my test kit, I walk back to the pool and

I uh, oh no, I'm sorry. I tested the water and then when I went back to get the chemicals, that's when the homeowner showed up. So I got a little ahead of myself, go get my test kit, go back to the thing. Uh, she's got a seven and a half chlorine, 7.5 chlorine. She had a 7.7 on the pH and I'm like, fuck this bitch with her alkalinity. I'll do it next week. Like I'm not giving her anything. Right? So I checked the stabilizer. It's 30. So I'm like,

Okay, I said the stabilizer at 30. Um, you know, it's that's I usually like to keep it around there. I said, it's, it's not that low. That's where I like to keep it. And she goes, well, I like it higher than that. And I go, okay, well that affects the chlorine level. So I'll just add a scoop for you. Um, you know, and I'll be right back. And then she goes, aren't you going to brush the pool? I'd already put all my equipment away. Aren't you going to part brush the pool? I go, well, it doesn't mean it today, but I'll be right back and get my.

I'll be right back with the chemicals. Oh, well, pools always need to be brushed down. Okay. So that's when I walked back and I called the boss and I said, this is what happened. That's when the homeowner shows up. So I go back to the pool with my fucking jug of acid, a jug of chlorine, because I was gonna put half of the chlorine in there and the stabilizer. I put the stabilizer in. So now they're both on the patio. And now they're both like, oh, well, that's when they said the thing about not being able to open the filter. Oh, well, we couldn't even open it to check it.

I was like, well, it needed to be replaced the last time that I cleaned it. That's why it's been written up that way. Because I think that's what pissed her off is they sent her a request for a new filter. And so they think that I'm not cleaning it. You know, people will would rather bitch and be like, just clean it. I don't need to replace it, which is fucking gross.

Rudy (09:27.179)

Andrea (09:28.286)
So I kind of moved past the filter. I said, all right, well, I'll take care of it next week, the storm and the, we're behind the holiday. So then she looks down in the corner of the pool and there was maybe two leaves that one was probably like this big, as big as my finger. And one like half the size of that, that had probably like floated down after I got done netting. I mean,

Literally, I'm never gonna get every single last fucking particle out of the pool Okay, and maybe if that lady hadn't been sitting there talking to me the whole time I probably could have focused a little bit more on the pool that and on the work that I was doing instead of answering Her asinine fucking questions, okay? So then she's like I go she just sat here and watched cuz she's like didn't you clean the pool I said she sat out here this whole time and watched me. She's like, yeah I don't know why you would leave any leaves in there. So I'm like, okay, so I'm like

I'll get that for you next week or whatever. I tried to leave again. I'm like, I'm done. You know, she fucking follows me out of her gate, out of her yard, which she has a gate and she's like yelling to me and I couldn't hear her because there's air conditioning units going the pump of the pool pump is going. So I turn around and I'm like, she's walking, not like running, not running, but walking after me, following me. Okay. So then she's like.

Rudy (10:40.775)
She's chasing you? Chasing? OK.

Andrea (10:49.566)
yelling to me and she's like you didn't are you just gonna leave that there and i'm like all right fine i'll get my net she goes okay well hurry up and i'm like excuse me what'd you say and she turned around she's like oh you're gonna you're gonna bring your net back right and i'm like yeah that's when she slammed the fucking gate okay so then i go back to the truck put my jug away get my net i come back yeah she slammed it super fucking hard like she it was loud when she slammed it so i walked back

Rudy (11:09.287)
So this lady's fuming.

Rudy (11:15.627)
over a leaf.

Andrea (11:17.714)
Yeah, so I walk back with my net. I'm like, wow, this lady really fucked her gate up and I opened the fucking gate. I put the net in the pool to scoop out the two fucking things that were in the pool because I already netted, vacuumed and everything. Okay, I didn't brush. I get the I put the net in the pool and they're both standing out there on the patio and the one lady Michelle, the homeowner, she's on the phone with somebody and I'm assuming it was the office.

And she's going, yeah, well, you replaced him with the worst pool cleaner in the history of pool cleaners, unless you guys just have really bad clients. So I pulled my pole out of the water and I turned around and walked away. And as I was walking out of her gate, she has like some rocks, like, you know, the, you know, pathway rocks, like.

Rudy (12:00.935)
She was... Okay, was she throwing rocks at you?

Andrea (12:05.458)
No, she's got the rocks are in her like on the ground, you know, like people have rocks and stepping stones and shit So it was like that. It was like those white Marble looking chunks, right? Like they're jagged and you don't want to walk on them barefoot. They're not very big Like maybe the size of a golf ball But jagged so those she had that or whatever the fuck I don't know what the fuck it might even have been a rock, but whatever it got stuck on something on the ground

Rudy (12:07.291)
Thank God.

Okay, yeah. Gotcha.

Rudy (12:22.035)
I understand. White stone.

Rudy (12:30.873)
It doesn't matter. Keep going.

Andrea (12:32.842)
It got stuck on something on the ground. So as I'm pushing the gate outward, which it opens out towards the street. So I'm walking through the gate and it got stuck on something and kind of bounced a little bit. And I kept just kept going. Right. I didn't even think anything of that. I'm fucking walking back to the truck and she's yelling after me again, following me out of her gate again to my truck. I get in the truck and I look over and she's walking towards my truck. Now I don't know.

what this lady's gonna do. Is she gonna fucking try and open my door? Is she gonna like bang on my window? What is she gonna do? So I pulled away. And no, I did not screech. No, I did not like try to run her over or anything like that. She was in the grass a good like two feet away from my truck. And so then she called and then she called and said that I broke her gate. And she's she called the owner of the company. They said she called the office four times.

Rudy (13:14.616)
So we're not going to see you on the news tonight.

Andrea (13:23.734)
They said, he said that my boss, the guy that I called and let them know that it was happening was like, I tried to call her but she was on the phone with Lee and so it's just this big huge fucking thing.

Rudy (13:35.067)
So we have a lot of listeners that, we have a lot of listeners that own service companies.

Andrea (13:35.766)
And you know the irony, hold on, there's an ironic part to this. So the whole time that the sister, the whole time, no the lag is annoying, the whole time the sister was sitting out there talking to me while I was trying to clean the fucking pool in peace, she's telling me the story because this lady apparently used to clean pools. And she's telling me the story of how she would go to this pool and no matter how much...

Rudy (13:42.63)

Andrea (14:02.834)
She likes her, she keeps her pools. She's real anal and she likes to keep her pools super, super clean and she just, as she just super clean with her pools and they were always perfect. So this pool constantly had this dirt on top of the water and she would just spend hours and hours trying to get every last speck of dirt off of the top of this pool. And the customer would complain because she wasn't getting all of the dirt out. And so eventually her boss got involved and canceled that customer because of a,

What a problem customer that was. And he told me, you know, you're never gonna get all of that stuff out. You don't, you shouldn't spend an hour trying to net all that fine dirt out and how glad she was to have a boss to have her back.

Rudy (14:45.191)
Hmm. Well, wow.

Andrea (14:47.53)
Isn't that funny? And then she's gonna sit out there and fucking point out a fucking half inch long piece of leaf. You know, whatever. I'm not here to argue shit. I should have got the leaf. Okay, fine. Should have got the leaf. However... There you go.

Rudy (14:57.263)
Well, the whole episode ain't gonna be about this, but a lot of people, a lot of our listeners own service companies, own businesses. A lot of them work for service companies and businesses. So I wanna ask, what would you guys do if your employee called with this going on and you heard from this customer during this? Yeah, well, what instruction...

Andrea (15:18.574)
I called in the middle of it happening so that I could have everybody on the same page like this is what I'm doing now, this is what she said to me, this is how do you want me to handle this.

Rudy (15:27.695)
Would you calm down? New topic. What instruction would you give your employee if they called you in the middle of this Karen fucking catastrophe going on at this pool? She missed the leaf. Do you guarantee, do you guarantee 100% of the leaves are removed? Do you guarantee your pools are brushed every week or brushing them every other week is okay or brushing as needed? I mean,

Andrea (15:40.246)
Seriously, my boss was awesome. He had my back

Rudy (15:57.104)
What's going on? Give us your thoughts on a different note.

Andrea (15:59.233)
We're trying to catch up, you know, so that was why I didn't brush, but there you go. Go ahead, let's move on.

Rudy (16:05.719)
On a different note, the state of Florida is considering, considering paying for swim lessons for children for needy families. Since, here are the statistics, since 2020, they're not, so, but here's the stats. Since 2020, 256 children, sadly, under the age of,

Andrea (16:17.518)
I thought they were already doing it.

Andrea (16:23.146)
I thought they were already doing that.

Rudy (16:36.023)
have drowned in the state. That's horrific. So two legislators, Travis Houston, Senator Travis Houston and Rebecca and Representative Demi Busada Cabrera, filed legislation this week trying to create a program in the health department that would contract with local swimming lesson vendors

to needy families with children, more than one child, four and younger, that were beneath the federal poverty level. So what do you think about that? I think that's a great idea.

Andrea (17:22.282)
Yeah, I think so too.

Rudy (17:24.763)
So not just low cost swimming lessons available, but no cost swimming lessons available throughout the state of Florida. That's fantastic. I'd love to see the stats. I mean, not that I'd love to see them because it's a horrible topic. I wonder how many, because Florida is such a tourist site, how many of those children live here versus how many of those children visit from other areas?

Andrea (17:38.21)
Definitely something that we need.

Andrea (17:53.131)
Is that not?

Rudy (17:53.507)
Not that it makes a difference, but the swim lessons are obviously only gonna apply to the children that live here, so if you're flying in, you should have these swim lessons taken care of before you get here.

Andrea (18:02.754)
That's a good question. How should you, how could you find that out? Is that information available?

Rudy (18:08.131)
I have no idea, maybe PK data might have something like that. Maybe we can reach out to them and see what's going on there. So on another note, I know how you love questions. So.

Andrea (18:19.314)
I do, but we're gonna have to, I might have to cut short cause my battery is now down to 17% and I'm getting anxious about not doing this pool that I'm sitting in.

Rudy (18:27.695)
Well, we're gonna keep going until we can't. So we have a question from Walker Reinheimer and he reached out with a subject of natural pools. I know how you love those. It says for a show idea, I'd be interested in hearing about natural pools. While I haven't come across one yet, I've seen them online. A few months ago, Wayne made a comment in passing about them, but I haven't heard anything else on them.

I'd like to hear how they differ from regular pools and construction equipment, makeup, water chemistry testing, and if they're safe, keep up the great show, Walker. So Walker, if you can get me your address, we'll definitely get you out a hat because you deserve a bad ass hat because that's a pretty good fucking question. So what are your initial thoughts here?

Andrea (19:10.39)
Yes, thanks for the question.


Andrea (19:18.138)
My initial thoughts are, do you want to give a shout out to the episode that you are on about this topic?

Rudy (19:27.759)
The one we did with, the one I did with Pool Magazine a few months back, well actually it was a couple years ago. I did one with Pool Magazine with Joe Trusty and Marianne Trusty over there, where he interviewed Alan Schneck of, he used to be of Bioguard, I don't recall the name of the company he's at now, but it's one that does manufacture these natural pools. But, go on.

Andrea (19:31.202)
The one you did, I was... Yeah, I was, that was...

Andrea (19:50.282)
Yeah, so go check out that episode if you're interested in that kind of aspect of it. But I've never actually dealt with one either. I've not put my hands in one. They sound scary to me, bacteria and illness wise. You know, there's people that advocate for their cleanliness and how, you know, to take care of them and that it's certain things aren't a threat. I don't necessarily.

subscribed to that. I'm not trying to like call anybody out. I just don't see how that's like.

you know, pot-ons and stuff. There's lots of different arguments. I don't know. But you know what I will say, there is a, um, I've been dying to go to this and maybe I'll do like a special episode or something from it or we can like talk to them. We can like call them or whatever. The Venetian pool in Coral Springs. Coral Springs? Coral, uh, something like that. Near Miami. Um,

Rudy (20:46.839)

Andrea (20:55.51)
well not salt water, it's a natural pool that's been around since like the 20s or 30s or whatever and they actually use the coral as a filtration system and they like empty the water and then fill it up with fresh water.

Rudy (21:10.563)
How often are they refilling this?

Andrea (21:13.502)
You know, I knew the answer to that question a couple of years ago because I went on their website and I totally geeked out about it. And I just, it's not... Coral Gables, that's what it is. Yeah, you can go to their website, their city website and read all about it. It's called Venetian Pool. And then you go to the Coral Gables city website and it's all there and it's really cool. Did you ask me? What did you ask me? I knew the answer, but I forgot what it is. But the information is there.

Rudy (21:20.423)
Is this Coral Gables?

Rudy (21:40.22)
My first problem right off the bat, my first problem is there's typically a visibility issue because I've never seen one of these that were not green unless it was for a photo shoot. Unless it was for a photo shoot because yeah.

Andrea (21:50.77)
It looks, yeah, in the, well, in the pictures, in the pictures on the website, it does look a little green. It's kind of funny. I mean, you know, I've seen pools that don't have algae in the water, so a little green and that's it's clear. It's just green tinted. Like you can see, you can see the people.

Rudy (21:59.835)
I've never seen one of them clear.

Rudy (22:09.327)
With that, it creates a visibility issue.

Andrea (22:13.514)
I'm at 15%.

Rudy (22:17.187)
It's okay. With that, it creates a visibility issue, which is a concern because we know that hazy and cloudy water is one of the leading contributing factors to drowning in pools, whether it's natural pools, swimming pools, lakes, ponds, rivers, streams, or what have you. Any body of water where the water quality is not perfect is a potential threat. The other problem, and we wanted to talk about how these things are manufactured. So the way they make these,

Rudy (22:49.347)
way they make these. The way they make these.

Uhhhhhh So the way they make these is they set them up So basically you've seen it There's a small pool alongside of the big pool the small pool is set up with plants that are normally found in bodies of water ponds Probably in that same area and they can be beautiful. They can get some really decorative stuff there but and The pools aren't made extremely differently than the pools that we have now

Andrea (23:16.478)
Yeah, they look nice. They look fun. Like childhood fantasies.

Andrea (23:25.666)
What are their surfaces? Are they like concrete or liners?

Rudy (23:26.063)
Generally they

Rudy (23:31.396)

Andrea (23:33.494)
both of those things.

Rudy (23:34.571)
Again, either or actually. And the big thing is that biofiltration zone. And that's that area where the plants are. And that's said to clean the water. The filter goes through a filter that has different things inside of it that are designed to pull out the larger debris, but also to feed, to feed,

The algae in the pool.

Andrea (24:08.526)
Nice. To feed the algae in the pool.

Rudy (24:11.055)
they want to feed the algae in the pool. Well the whole theory behind it is that if they can grow diatoms, diatoms can outgrow everything else in the water and use up all the nutrients that anything else would survive on.

Andrea (24:27.301)
So you're swimming with algae instead of bacteria?

Rudy (24:27.983)
That's the theory behind it.

Rudy (24:32.551)
Correct. So.

Andrea (24:33.762)
So the whole thing about if algae can grow, what else can grow doesn't apply here.

because you want the algae to grow so that anything else can grow. Nothing else can grow.

Rudy (24:44.315)
Basically, well yeah, because basically they're trying to cause the algae to outgrow everything else in that body of water, and we know mustard algae, it either sits on the floor of the pool and dusts up when you kick it, right? Or it clings madly to the walls, but not free-floating.

Andrea (25:07.732)
So the sun's going down.

Andrea (25:12.502)
And I'm still like sitting in front of this pool. Keep talking. I'm at 13%.

Rudy (25:13.445)

Rudy (25:16.859)


Rudy (25:33.191)
So anyway, the water in these natural pools, it's continually cycled through this biofilter zone, which is that separate body of water that has the plants in it. The filtered water then goes back to the pool. The filters contain these balls, in a lot of cases, or other.

Andrea (25:51.885)

Rudy (25:55.579)
bio, natural materials, and microorganisms. So that way when the water passes through the filters, where they do use extremely low voltage pumps, nutrients which feed algae growth is distributed to the water. So again, they're saying just like

Andrea (26:00.75)

Rudy (26:24.491)
in mountain lakes and streams. And if you picture a mountain lake and stream in your head, I'm sure you're picturing some crystal clear body of water somewhere. That's not typically what you get here. Because again, we are promoting algae growth as part of the plan in keeping this water in shape. But the problem here is does that work? Does that ensure that the pool is going to be disease free? Because...

We still have people getting in the water and people do still stick their butts in the water and there are diseases that can come from people's butts that algae and plants cannot kill.

In fact, just out of curiosity, go ahead.

Andrea (27:05.526)
I was just gonna ask that. I was just gonna ask that if, because you've got people swimming in the... I mean, you answered the question I was gonna ask was, it's obviously not gonna take care of things like crypto or Giardia or Oryginaurosa Moringa Megalocutty or whatever the ear infection one is.

Rudy (27:31.371)
There's some things. We talked about raccoon feces in swimming pools, and we know that that's a huge problem. There's absolutely nothing in these ponds that can handle these things either. I'm not going to lie, the chlorine in swimming pools can't take care of that. But there are other things that are introduced that chlorine can take care of. So for giggles, I pulled up a list of waterborne illnesses that are common in mountain...

Andrea (27:37.172)

Rudy (27:57.519)
ponds and streams. Are you curious? Because that's what they're comparing this to. So the diseases that are common in these bodies of water, mountain pools and streams are Giardia, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, cholera, typhoid fever. Wait, the list goes on. Here's one. Schlamydiosis. Okay, I know I pronounced that wrong. Salmonella, got that.

Andrea (28:01.142)


Rudy (28:26.087)
Tally basilosis, avian tuberculosis, these are all things that are common to these natural bodies of water. Not saying that they're common to natural pools, but they are common to the natural.

Andrea (28:31.746)
So that sounds fun.

Rudy (28:47.655)
ponds and streams that we're comparing these pools to, which they're supposed to be just like. So we already know that these things are not disease-free, even out in the wild. Then, add to that some of the other things that we run into. Legionella, not uncommon.

lakes, ponds, streams. Nyglery, foulery, which is the brain-eating amoeba, also not uncommon in lakes, ponds, and streams. So there are a bunch of disease threats that are easily destroyed at a very low level of chlorine in a regular swimming pool that would be permitted to persist in these natural pools.

Andrea (29:18.55)
What about...

Rudy (29:41.295)
And a lot of things people say first is that, well, as long as we don't swallow the water, which never happens, people always swallow the water, we'll be okay. But that's not necessarily true because nigelorifalorid doesn't rely on you consuming water for you to become ill. It can actually pass through the membrane in your nose. Leptospirosis is a disease of animals that is shed in the urine of the infected host.

Andrea (30:02.99)

Rudy (30:10.639)
which in an untreated body of water can actually live for a long, long time, and that also can pass through the membrane in your nose, directly through your eye, even through your skin. So we have a bunch of things there that would raise concerns for me.

Andrea (30:25.026)

Andrea (30:33.226)
Yeah, I mean, that doesn't sound as nice as they look.

Rudy (30:40.715)
Andrea now cleaning a pool as we speak, so this way she can enjoy her Thanksgiving.

Andrea (30:47.001)
I am, you should see this pool. Oh my God, I'm gonna cry because it's just.

Rudy (30:52.079)
But again, to that point, I have never seen a natural swimming pool that was not green unless it was prepped for a photo shoot.

And we know which ones those are because we can go back and compare pictures to it. Now there are DIY kits on these pools out there. There are pool installation companies out there. They'll get into all of the different elements, just as you would setting up a pool in your backyard with the different hardscapes.

Andrea (31:05.23)

Andrea (31:09.698)

Rudy (31:24.999)
They have been popular internationally for several decades, I will give them that. And again, they can use many different plant types and that provides the water with oxygen. And it does, I'm not gonna lie, it does aid infiltration, but is that enough? It's not enough.

Andrea (31:32.366)
Has there been?

Andrea (31:46.708)
Um, has there been any, uh, hold on, check this out, watch this. See this? Look. See now? You can see it. You can, I can see your face. Look at this.

Rudy (31:48.219)
Go ahead.

Rudy (31:54.595)
No, I can't see. I can't see. Still can't see. No, I'm not looking.

Rudy (32:03.907)
Yeah, I know, and I'm looking at something else. I have something else on my screen.

So I'm going to go back to the podcast.

Rudy (32:16.161)
So are these things enough?

Andrea (32:17.706)
This is the this is like the last point that we got to make because I'm down to 8% now But my question I was trying to ask Has there been any like recorded instances of people getting any of those? Sicknesses from any of these pools like that

Rudy (32:35.971)
Not that I know of, because I don't think anybody's tracking it. But I can tell you that I don't know. I can tell you I'll look really quick while we're talking. But typically the plants they use are water lilies, perennial grasses, such as reeds like sporganium or cattails, pond sedge and swamp hibiscus, which you like hibiscus.

Andrea (32:44.182)

Andrea (33:06.174)
Yeah, you know, that doesn't make... whatever, I don't know. Whatever. Y'all do y'all.

Rudy (33:14.095)
You know, it's not y'all do y'all. Somebody asked us a question, so we're trying to answer it. I understand you're having a shit day, but.

Andrea (33:18.762)
I just... No, I meant... I meant... I meant people... I meant people that would rather swim in something like that because they don't like the idea of swimming in chemicals, even though, like, you're not swimming in chemicals. You're swimming in water that's treated with chemicals. So I don't know, like, the people that are, like, I don't know, afraid of chlorine and stuff, but you'd rather swim with water bugs and stuff. I don't know, I just...

I don't get it.

Rudy (33:49.271)
I don't see just in a quick internet search here that any diseases that are specifically attributed to natural pools. Doesn't mean that there's not something out there on it, just means that in a quick search that I can't find it. If one of our listeners happens to find it and wants to send us a link or shoot us an email to talkingpools at, we'll definitely take a look at that.

We have no problem doing that. We'd be happy to actually see it, so we could come back and visit that. Now...

Andrea (34:30.67)
Alright, I'm gonna have to leave you here, because my battery is at 6% and if, I gotta like leave it up, open to upload or whatever.


Rudy (34:43.447)
Yeah, you do. So.

Andrea (34:45.142)
So I gotta go put this back in the truck.

Rudy (34:48.932)

Andrea (34:50.066)
and I have to unplug the microphone to charge the phone, so I apologize.

Rudy (34:55.675)
Gotcha. Okay. So.

There you go. Okay.

Andrea (35:02.094)
You can keep going. Well, thanks for the question, though. I mean.

Rudy (35:06.615)
No, yeah, definitely. And we appreciate you. Andrea is going to hop out now so she can go finish up her pools. So.

Andrea (35:11.658)
Yeah, I mean, sorry. Oh, there we go at 5%. Yep. So I gotta go. All right. Bye. Yep. Bye.

Rudy (35:14.671)
Wish everybody had, you know. And there she goes. Talk to you later. Thank you for jumping on.

Rudy (35:52.507)
So built very much like a regular pool. The addition is that bio zone. You can use PVC pipes, all of that stuff, to get, to run the water from the pump to this plant zone.

Rudy (36:15.491)
Most of these use pool equipment, pumps, filters. Again, the difference what they put inside of the filter. I am sure there are a lot of places that manufacture pumps and filters just for this.

They do suggest aeration.

They do suggest aeration.

Rudy (36:41.455)
because obviously encouraging diatoms to grow.

Rudy (37:03.495)
Some of them will have skimmers.

Rudy (37:11.355)
So that way they can catch debris from the surface again, just like a swimming pool.

Rudy (38:23.495)
They do ask in these pools, there are some specifics in the build of the pool itself. The surface area, basically what they're stating is the larger and deeper a pool is, the more challenging it is for algae to grow.

Deeper pools means cooler water, which will slow growth of any organisms. And then building the pool in the shade versus in sunlight should keep growth to a minimum, which is not necessarily true because if we know anything, algae in a pool tends to start on the side that is shaded because most pool algaes, even black algae, cyanobacteria,

prefers indirect light.

Rudy (39:15.151)
they would like you to keep the pH of the water somewhere between 5.5 and seven. That's gotta be challenging with aeration because we know the turbulence is gonna drive the pH up.

Rudy (39:37.435)
So basically, I mean, just a look at the design here, you have a swimming pool instead of, imagine you have a pool with an infinity edge and that infinity edge dumps off into that trough. Okay, what if you just had it go straight across and into this plant area? We draw the water from the bottom of this plant area, which is filled with aggregate.

beneath the pool.

and then back and into the larger body of water itself. So essentially it is functioning exactly like.

This just in, microbial mystery unveiled, fecal contamination found in natural swimming pools. Recent research conducted by scientists has unveiled concerning levels of fecal contamination in natural swimming pools, a popular chlorine-free alternative. These pools celebrated for their eco-friendly approach using mechanical and biological filters were found to exceed the recommended levels for E. coli and fecal enterococci

In three out of four tested locations, the study raises questions about the efficiency of natural purification systems in maintaining water quality. The contamination traced back to wildlife, particularly birds near the pools, prompts the researchers to emphasize the need for further investigation and establishment of microbial parameters to ensure safe bathing in these increasingly popular natural pool environments.

The findings could have implications not only for private developments, but also for pools with a higher bather density.

Rudy (01:15.97)
This first reported in

Rudy (40:18.727)
Rapid rate sand filter except it's using this aggregate instead of sand and again Like I said, some of them do also just have a regular filter on it with different bio balls or whatever inside of it that do Add to feeding whatever it is. They're trying to grow

Rudy (40:42.091)
Insects they don't worry about because they think the frogs take care of it. Daphnia is a microscopic creature common in lakes They do play a role in the cycle in the nitrate cycle Fight phosphates. I mean, there's a lot of different things here that make sense again My main problems coming back to it because that's the question that you asked one clarity of the water number two that list of organisms that I shared with you that do still

grow, live, and can be contracted from these mountain ponds and streams that already have all of these things that they're listing as the reasons that these are going to be healthy and safe and disease-free.

That's my thoughts on the subject. So hoping everybody had a great Thanksgiving yesterday. I apologize Andrea couldn't make it with us all the way to the end.

Rudy (41:46.383)
So the actual maintenance here at the pool, you're gonna crack up because a lot of it's gonna involve pruning the plants. Then of course, you'll have to dismantle, drain the filters just as you wouldn't cleaning any pump and then the pump basket, that type of thing. But yeah, pruning plants will be the new job if you're taking care of one of these things. But again, sorry, I know of no state in the country where the...

Health Department has approved such a pool to be used as a public pool, but again, they are growing in popularity slowly in the United States, but growing.

Rudy (42:32.303)
You know, I can tell you that one of the things that Alan asked me when I had him up when we were on the show together, he said, you know, there's good biofilm and bad biofilm. And then he mentioned his dog's water bowl and that how when he emptied the water and he moved his hand around there, it felt a little bit slimy. That's because there's biofilm in there. But my thought is, don't you clean that out? Don't you rinse the bowl before you fill it with back with water for your dog? We don't want the.

dog to have that in their water either. So why do I want it in my pool? These are just some thoughts I have on it. But again, my main concerns, clarity of the water, and ability to keep people from becoming ill and waterborne illnesses.

Rudy (43:26.779)
So again.

Walker, fantastic question. We appreciate you, we thank you and everybody for listening. Hope everybody had a fantastic Thanksgiving yesterday. Hope everybody has a fantastic weekend.

And as always, give us some love, give us some stars, give us some likes, share us with a friend, leave a review, a good review, and a bunch of stars, not just four, but give us that fifth star.

Rudy (44:02.011)
Give us 5 stars, leave us a review, share us with a friend.

And until next time, walker, don't forget to send me your address. Until next time, be good, be safe.