Talking Pools Podcast
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Talking Pools Podcast is the pool industry’s “pull up a chair” show—part shop talk, part field manual, part therapy session—built for people who actually live on pool decks: commercial operators, service techs, builders, facility managers, and anyone responsible for water that can’t afford to go sideways. The network was created to level up the pool industry with real-world conversations on water chemistry, filtration, troubleshooting, construction, safety, and the business side of keeping pools open and budgets intact.
Here’s the hook: it’s not theory-first. It’s experience-first—a roster of seasoned pros (with 250+ years of combined “been there, fixed that” wisdom) turning complicated problems into practical moves you can use the same day. And it’s not one voice, one vibe, one corner of the industry: it’s a network of shows designed to reflect how diverse this work really is—different regions, different specialties, different personalities.
Also worth saying out loud: women aren’t “special guests” here—they’re on the mic as hosts, from the beginning, with an intentionally balanced roster. That matters, because the best ideas in this industry don’t come from one lane—they come from the whole road.
If you want a podcast that can make you laugh and make you better at what you do—without pretending the job is easier than it is—Talking Pools is the one you queue up before the first stop, and keep on when the day starts getting weird.
Talking Pools Podcast
Selling Removable Safety Fencing
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This is the one where Rudy & Andrea are joined by Eric Lupton, CEO of Life Saver Pool Fence, to discuss the features, advantages, and benefits of selling removable pool safety fencing and the 2-year anniversary of the Talking Pools Podcast.
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SPEAKER_00Get ready to dive into the ultimate celebration as we mark a fantastic milestone, the two-year anniversary of the Talking Pools podcast. We couldn't have made it this far without all of you, our incredible listeners. So, grab your net, don your sun hats, and join us for a splashing good time filled with laughter, insights, and a few surprises along the way. It's been an incredible journey, and we want you to be a part of this special moment because, let's face it, without your pool tastic expertise and enthusiasm, this podcast wouldn't be half as fun. So, tune in and let's make some waves together as we celebrate our amazing community of pool professionals. See you at the party, and remember, the water's always fine with the Talking Pools podcast.
SPEAKER_08This is the Talking Pools uh podcast show. Um hello, I'm one of the hosts, Andrea, and I'm here with my good friend.
SPEAKER_01Are you sure? You don't sound really confident about that today. You're not a little a little hesitant on the I am Andrea part. I'm Rudy Stankwich. And I am here with I am Andrea.
SPEAKER_08I am Andrea. Yes, I have just literally I have not even stopped working. I rushed straight home from well, not from straight from my last pool because I had to go back to the shop and get my truck and you know do a couple of things, but right from there I came you're looking at what I look like after work. So which isn't that's I'm a little discomfobulated. That's that's my point I'm getting at.
SPEAKER_01Understood. And and you were telling me that somebody actually jumped or one of your co-workers got jumped, and you had to pick up extra pools because of this.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, well, um, it turns out that I instead of picking up extra pools to cover his couple of days or whatever that he's been out, they actually pulled some of the repair guys um to cover. Um, but I actually inherited like they're my pools now. Six of his.
SPEAKER_01Badly hurt, was he?
SPEAKER_08Is he getting I was I I got the I got the six, yeah. He's coming back. I got the six pools before this happened. Um, but I kind of forgot about them. That's part of the reason I was in such a rush and late because I forgot that we made the changes, and so I was expecting to have like four pools today. And then I ended up suddenly snap.
SPEAKER_01I have more to do. Okay.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah. So I I was rushing.
SPEAKER_01That sucks. I'd hate that coming in thinking you got a nice, easy, early day on Friday, no less.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and it was like it was like 12 o'clock when I realized I still had another fucking six pools to go.
SPEAKER_01That's gotta be that's gotta be awful.
SPEAKER_08I was a little aggravated, but you know, it was my own fault for not checking the skimmer app because we use that. It was my own fault for not looking at it in the morning when I'm supposed to, but yeah, it was a I was frustrated.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. But your coworker's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, he's he's gonna be okay. I believe he's coming back at some point. I'm not real sure.
SPEAKER_01Who did he piss off?
SPEAKER_08I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Was it about money? I have no idea, like a loan shark type of thing.
SPEAKER_08I do not know. I have no clue.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I just know pay your debts, people.
SPEAKER_08He got injured.
SPEAKER_01So anyway, so he didn't borrow money from you, did he? Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_08No, I would have punched him in the mouth for that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm saying he got jumped, maybe.
SPEAKER_08He would have still been able to work.
SPEAKER_01Just toothless.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, there you go. So anyway. So we got a we have a guest with us today.
SPEAKER_08We do.
SPEAKER_01We do. Do you want to tell everybody who it is?
SPEAKER_08Sure, we have we have with us Eric Lupton, and Eric is the CEO of Lifesaver Pool Fences.
SPEAKER_01Located thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_08Oh.
SPEAKER_01In South Florida.
SPEAKER_08In South Florida, I'm I'm I don't know exactly where I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01Actually, really close to you.
SPEAKER_08I thought so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But they they ship all over the country. All over the world or all over the country?
SPEAKER_02All over the world. Wow.
SPEAKER_08Nice.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. To all the countries that you know on this planet, and maybe some other planets, but I see your truck.
SPEAKER_08I see sorry. I see a lot of your trucks around my city where I'm at.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. Are you allowed to say what city you're in? She doesn't live.
SPEAKER_08Um well, I live in one city and I work in a different city, but you know, she's she's afraid stalkers will show up. Say St. Lucie County, Martin County, Palm Beach County.
SPEAKER_02We are in those areas, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_02In fact, we're in uh 30 states throughout the US. Nice. That's yeah, well, let me phrase that correctly. We have you know life, you know, dedicated lifesavers in 30 states throughout the US, but we um we sell fence, you know, in all 50 states and then um in all the other countries in the world. So there's a lifesaver of Dubai, there's a lifesaver of Thailand.
SPEAKER_01Um wow. Okay, I didn't I didn't realize that. That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, we are we are everywhere.
SPEAKER_01For those facilities that are overseas, do they manufacture the product there or are you shipping?
SPEAKER_02No, we are the exclusive manufacturer.
SPEAKER_01We don't call the lifesaver uh produces well and that's good because that's not always the case that you see with a lot of folks that that end up having locations overseas. And a lot of times when that happens, then there's a hiccup in quality. So I think it's it's good that you guys are still making sure that everything that with your name on it is manufactured at your factory.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, our the the places we get the fences, you know, that we we make them here and then we ship them out to our few folks all over the world. And so yeah, we're in we're in Delver Beach, Florida, and we've got uh about 20,000 square feet here all put together. So we've we've got uh you know you know the bulk of it's right where I'm sitting, it's about 13,000 square feet. And then we've got a few little smaller warehouses uh close by for storage and you know warehouse space. But and then we have another uh fulfillment center that we ship out of in California. So those people on the West Coast, they uh they are impatient, they want it right away. So uh they get to get their stuff at the same time as the East Coast because we have a fulfillment that's out there.
SPEAKER_09So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now, one of the things about your company, you've you've been around for a little while, but all of a sudden it's like you pressed on the gas and you just flew to the top, and you are now the fence company, the removable pool fence company in this country. I mean, because you you had some competition at one point in time. Now you you kind of dusted them. So can you give me a run? How how did how exactly did you do that? And it didn't take a long time either, did it?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think our competitors would claim that we still have competition. Um, you know, they uh they mean they do still exist, and uh, you know, they they may disagree with you, but uh, but I appreciate that. That's I like that sentiment quite a bit.
SPEAKER_01I piss people off every week. Why should this week be different?
SPEAKER_02In fact, you broke up a bit right when I think you were getting to the good part. So I think you were saying that we we took off, and then there's there's just nobody on the same level. Is that what you were saying?
SPEAKER_01I said you dusted them, is actually what I said.
SPEAKER_08So yeah, you lapped them, you're gonna pisses off everyone everywhere I've ever gone with him.
SPEAKER_01So frequent.
SPEAKER_02I'll love it when I tune in two weeks from now, and you've got one of my competitors on, you say the same thing to him. Like no, like it's just you guys, really. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't think we will. I mean, if you listen to the show, we don't do a lot of interviews, we really don't. So I doubt that's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah. I can't see it, especially after we just pissed them off.
SPEAKER_02Right, that's true. But but yeah, I mean, there there are a few other pool pence brands, but I think you know, and all to be as objective as possible, I think you are correct in that, you know, in the last several years, um, you know, we've managed to make um a lot of right choices, and maybe we've gotten lucky in a lot of ways. And um, you know, we've we've definitely leveled up in a way that our our competition has not. And and I think you're right. I think you know, we really don't have any real competitors at this point. You know, we're um I think we're we're easily the largest pool fence company um in the world. And um, I think a lot of that has to do with some choices we made, you know, about uh you know I think going back all the way to 2008, where you know, when the when the recession hit, the the rest of the pool fence industry cut kind of collectively decided that you know we we needed to make these things as affordable as possible, that people didn't care about the quality, that it's temporary, that all pool fences look alike, that from your from your kitchen window you can't tell one from another, so you might as well make it as as cheap as you can. And and I decided that we were gonna go the other direction, that we were gonna make it more expensive, more you know, higher quality. And I had this funny feeling that people actually really did care about quality.
SPEAKER_01Good. Um, and those people, those people looking for shortcuts and temporary fencing and cheap pricing, it's okay. They're just not your customer, and that's fine. That works out, and they wouldn't be mine in a safety category either.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_01It just doesn't go hand in hand to me. I mean, it doesn't in any category, but especially in this one.
SPEAKER_02No, I was afraid that if I participated in this race to the bottom, that I might win. And and that did not sound like a good idea to me. Um, and and thankfully, you know, that that choice paid off. You know, people really do care about um components and quality and about the company that they buy from. You know, they they seem to care about the the story of you know of what we do and you know how we support nonprofits and how we give away offenses to the families that are drowning victims, and um, so so yeah, people actually do care.
SPEAKER_01They it's not just a commodity, and you know, and there's there's a great story there, and also a huge similarity because one of the things we're always talking about, and it applies to everything in what you just said there, it applies to any type of business. We're always talking about, well, folks are always wanting to know what I should try to charge for pool service, what should I charge for this? And you know, it is market dependent when you're because they're not dealing with the whole country, they're dealing with several counties, but you should see what the market could bear. In fact, I would I like to see who's charging the most and then come in 10% higher. And it's hard to it's sometimes hard to get that message across to people. Well, why do I want to be higher? And it's just because that's the company that you want to be. You don't want to be the cheapest priced, you want to be the highest priced, and you want to be the highest price because you're offering the best product. Period, the end, because the best product should be the highest priced, shouldn't it? Andrea?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and I think when you're talking about something um that's as important as a safety fence where literally lives depend on it, and some, you know, you want quality ingredients, you want it to be a to you want it to work, you want it to save lives, you don't want it to like come apart, or you don't want kids to be able to rip it or I a friend of mine, um, she was really concerned that her uh I believe at the time she was like a two or three-year-old or four-year-old or something like that. And she was afraid that the kid was going to be able to climb up the safety fence. Because I actually recommended her, I think they did end up going with the lifesaver, because I was like, get go with this company. And um, she she told me she's like, Oh no, there's there's no way she could climb up that. I was like, I was trying to tell you, you know, like that's they're they keep that in mind when they design these things. So anyway, yeah, good quality products and stuff. You want to make sure that that's something so important, you know.
SPEAKER_02You know, and I and we we preach that all the time to our our lifesaver dealers and franchisees that you want to you wanna be the most expensive by it by a lot, you know, because we're we're proud of what we do and we we charge accordingly. And um and I think there is kind of this this cycle that happens too, where you know, if you charge more, people recognize the quality. And I think the mistake a lot of people make in our business and maybe in yours too, that you know, if you know you're better and you've got a better thing, and you think, well, I'm gonna charge the same as everybody else, and then people are gonna realize, well, man, this one's so much better, but I can get it for the same price as this other one. It's a no-brainer. I don't even have to, you know, everybody's gonna go with me. But the problem is that when you make yourself the same price, you know, even though you might be a better, you know, service company or a better pull fence product, you know, the people's perception reflects the price you charge. You know, if if someone was trying to sell you a Rolex for $300, you would wonder what's wrong with it, right? Um, so even though something might be objectively better, um, you know, the price is part of your marketing, right? The price is part of the experience. And people expect to pay more for a better thing. And if you don't give them the opportunity to pay more for your better thing, then they don't appreciate it quite as much. Or maybe they don't uh believe that it is actually better. Um, so I think I think charging more is part of that. But I think people are scared a lot of times to charge more because then you have to fulfill that promise that your price is making for you. So if you're a full service tech and you're charging 20% more than everybody else, then you gotta live up to that price, right? And that's hard. You know, you can't absolutely gotta you know provide reasons why you're charging a premium price, you gotta be a premium person. And a lot of people, you know, don't have the confidence to do to be that, I think. And uh so I think being more expensive makes a lot of people nervous because they don't think that they're they're they're worthy of the ask in a lot of cases.
SPEAKER_01People are happy to pay what a product is worth. I believe that. And if the value's there, nobody's gonna have a problem paying the higher price. And for the folks that the people who shop price will always shop price, and those folks will always be there, and those folks are not your customer, or they shouldn't be. If that's if that's your target market and that's where you like to be, that's fantastic. You do that. But for folks that are looking for growth, that's not a cool place to hang out. You're not gonna get the results you want, you're not gonna, you're gonna have a lot of trouble growing, you're gonna have a lot of trouble with reputation management. There's just gonna be a those same people that shop price complain a lot, those same people that shop price go on the whatever word of mouth group and tell everybody how much you suck. I mean, those are the same people because they argue everywhere they go. Yeah, so I don't want them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think there's there's two kinds of people. There are people who like to pay less, you know, that's that that's their identities. There are people who are bargain hunters, they're coupon clippers, and they like to get the deal, right? There's there's those people, and there's people who prefer to pay more, you know. They they identify as someone who wants higher quality stuff, they don't want to be bothered with the the bargain hunting. And um, I happen to follow follow in that group, right? I I'm the guy who'd rather pay more, right? Um, and and if you get to choose, you know, and you do you get to choose which kind of customer you get to cater to. And since there is you know pros and cons with each one, and there's challenges with each group, right? Each group has its own, you know, uh idiosyncrasies that you have to deal with. I'd much rather deal with the challenges of the people who like to pay more. Um, you know, they they've got their own, you know, set of things that make them you know easier or harder to deal with, but uh, but at least you're charging more. And and I I find they tend to be a little easier to work with the two. So so yeah, if you got to pick, I'd rather pick people who like to pay more.
SPEAKER_01Another thing you did, I agree with that, you hadn't mentioned it, but another thing that you did that a lot of folks didn't, and I saw it, I definitely saw it. I'm sure Andrea did as well, and it'll make sense as soon as I mention it. But in the during the pandemic, when most folks with their products, their advertising, tended to stay status quo, you came out with some really innovative things that you pushed out into the market and invested more in advertising during a hard time. And that paid off for you a lot as well, did it not?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, we um for whatever reason seem to be the only major pull fence brand who thinks the internet is like a real thing that deserves to be taken seriously, right? Um, and it's not going anywhere. And, you know, um, when I tell people, you know, some of my contemporaries, you know, what we spend, you know, advertising online, and they they you would think I'm talking about, you know, putting money into cracker jack boxes or like, oh, you spent that much on Google? Like it's just Google. Like, why would you, you know, or are you just putting that on Facebook? Like, it's Facebook. I why would you spend that much? You know, they don't they just don't see it. But but yeah, we we doubled down hard on uh marketing, uh almost exclusively online. You know, we don't really do any billboards or direct mail or or postcard. You know, we we we used to do all that stuff, but you know, the internet's where it's at. The internet's where the audience is, right? If you're you're a parent of a three-year-old, uh, you're on TikTok, right? Uh probably. Uh you're definitely on Instagram. I'm on TikTok. 100%. Me too. Um, you know, I don't even have any kids that I know of. So I I think that's you know, one of the things that he knows of. That I know of every every Father's Day I check the mail, seeing if this will be the year I get a card. And it's a card. No card.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, now that Maury's off the air, we have to go with the Father's Day card. It's all that's left.
SPEAKER_02So that's all that's left. Yeah, I check every Father's Day to see if this is gonna be the year they find me, but um, but uh, but yeah, so you know, we we did we pushed hard on marketing online and and it yeah, it's paid it off. Um but funny enough, if you advertise, people find you. And we tried to do it in an intelligent way. You know, we we do a lot of social media, we do a lot on Google. Um, we try not to, we we try to have a good mix of you know educational content that's provides real value and you know stops it trying to let people know about pool fences. And I think it's been a big a big game changer for us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a great message there also in that because you'll see, even in the in what we keep going back to pool service, pool builders, what have you. That's you know, that's our market, but not just listening to what you've done, but taking it as you know, a map to what we should do, what we should all be doing. No one should ever stop advertising, no matter what your business is. And I know a lot of folks say, okay, I'm all word of mouth and I'm full and I've got a list and all that stuff, but the second a recession hits, that isn't enough anymore. And you'll want to have built up that name recognition among people who don't know your current customers as well as those that do. You want everybody to know your name, you want everybody in those areas to know that you are the guru, you're the expert in that area, you are the person that I have to have. Because when people start backing off and they don't want to spend the money, the people that still do are gonna be looking for the expert. So, if anything, even during those hard times, like what Eric did during the pandemic years, invest more during those times. You'll see your competition's gonna back off. One of the first expenses your competition is gonna cut is advertising. And that's a mistake. So take advantage of that. Spend more, it will pay off. Cut back somewhere else. I'm not saying, you know, go over budget, go into debt on credit cards, cut back somewhere else. There's something else you can cut out, but not that. So kudos to you. That's fantastic. And you are you're the front runner by a lot. And now we're we were talking a few moments ago, and I don't know how many people know this. You're busting into franchising.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Um we uh we announced that in the beginning of the year, and uh and you know, and we're we're actually speaking of advertising, we are just about to start um really marketing our our franchise opportunity. And you know, our dealers are great and you know, they've done a great job with the tools that they they have, but But you know, we've figured out over the last 35 years what a you know as close to perfect full fence installation company you can build looks like. You know, we we know how much you should be spending on advertising, you know, we know what software you should be using for your your CRM, you know, we know what your bookkeeping should look like, you know, what your vehicle wraps should be, um, or at least a rough idea, close enough, right? Um, certainly closer than a lot of people are gonna figure it out just on their own without you know, without any guidance, reinventing the wheel, right? So, so yeah, we've bundled up this 35 years of our own experience and the experiences of hundreds of um dealers who have came and went or still continue to exist, and and we've created our franchise program. And um and yeah, we've we have you know uh a few already, even though we haven't started promoting it yet. We know we've had uh um two two brand new ones who uh who found us and who were connected to us already. And I mean they've they they literally their businesses both opened officially on the May 15th, which is four days when we're recording this right now. Um so Monday. This is Friday on Monday. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, congratulations. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they're both already booking jobs. Um, you know, what and and they're not in like areas where you'd think one's in Arkansas, one's in Little Rock, the other one's in Tennessee. And the guy in Tennessee is doing his second job today.
SPEAKER_01Um, and congratulations, guy in Tennessee, if you're listening.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he did his uh first one last week, uh, you know, for a total revenue of about six thousand dollars and you know, two jobs in two weeks. I mean, he's had a camper.
SPEAKER_01And you and I, and we you and I talked a little bit offline about the pricing. I don't know if you want to share that or not. It's perfectly okay with me. But I can tell everybody listening this the franchise cost is about the same or less than you would pay for a good consultant for a year.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Um the franchise startup fee is 35 grand, and it's our website, so I don't think I'm sharing anything that's not not public knowledge, but uh and and obviously this isn't an offer to to buy a franchise, you have to buy a franchise, you have to talk to it. Um all the the legal disclaimers uh we are not selling franchises here right now. No. Um but um but yeah, if you know the total investment to um get a lifesaver pool's franchise is between 70 and 100 grand. And that includes your vehicle, that includes your first three months of marketing, that includes um yeah, your core drill, your inventory, everything super nuts, right? Um and and that's a lot of money, it is, you know, but we also estimate that you know you can do you know three jobs a week and make you know 250 grand a year. Um that's that's what the average dealer does right now. Um so yeah, we think it's uh we we we talk, we used to always say that it might be the best kept secret in the home service industry and in small business. And there's uh a guy that works here who in a video we put out, he we we we bring it up all the time, we quote him all the time because he says it's a hidden treasure and he's got this thick Latin accent, and we think it's funny. But uh you know, but he's also he's not wrong. I mean, you know, the the margins in this are are great, and um and and you know it's good because we've got these dealers who you know didn't have all the training and support and everything we're doing now for the franchisees, and they've still managed to make really excellent livings for themselves. Um, you know, they've they've bought Teslas and they've put their kids through college, they've got nice houses, and they only work five months a year and they hang out in Florida for the rest of the year. Um, and and you know, then they've been able to do that doing this kind of part-time, you know, without without the support the franchisees get. So um, what franchisees are gonna be able to do compared to dealers, it's gonna be really remarkable. And uh, and we are very excited to see it happen. And and and they get to do it in a business where you feel good at night, you know, when you go to bed, because you know you did something really worthwhile for society.
SPEAKER_03Rudy and Andrea will be right back with more Flocked Fridays after these messages.
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SPEAKER_01I'm excited about it. It's awesome. I am. And you know, we also spoke, and I, you know, I've I've done a few different things in my career in the pool industry, and and one of them I was heavily involved in safety fencing sales. So I designed a line of safety fencing, and this loops around actually, because I designed a line of safety fencing, the whole RD process for a company, and then sold that fencing while I was there as well, but took over um for them and uh is producing fences of the based off of referrals and stuff. But it's cool because there is no better feeling than when you sell, I mean, safety products are not warm fuzzies. They're really not. I mean, there are the things that you need at a pool, and people understand they need a filter, they need a pump, they know that. But then they look at these things as warm fuzzies. But when they baby proof or child proof things inside their house, they're not looking at it the same way. You know, I gotta put that little plastic thing in the outlet, I gotta make sure the door's all lock, I gotta make sure they can't open the toilet and the refrigerator doesn't come open. This is the same thing, except we're dealing with what could potentially be the greatest danger for the child, the pool. And we want to keep the child from getting to the pool. And the best way to keep a child from getting to the pool is to put a fence around it. It's a no-brainer. That's child proofing your pool. Same as you do inside the house. It protects your child, it protects the neighbor children. Because that's another thing. Andrea brought up a couple of weeks ago. We were talking, and she said that sadly, in her neighborhood, a child that was on the spectrum drowned in a was it a uh drainage ditch? What was it?
SPEAKER_08Um, it's like a retention pond, I guess. A retention pond. They're like all over the place in the just randomly in the neighborhood. And children with there's alligators in them.
SPEAKER_01Children was with autism autism tend to wander. That's just a fact. So that could have easily been a swimming pool. And this is one of those other things that people that own pools need to take into consideration. It's not your just kid, just your kids you need to worry about. It's all the neighborhood kids, it's everybody in the neighborhood. And then, yeah, there are some kids that are special risk or an increased risk. I guess that's a better terminology for it. And the cost of installing the fence, if you think about it, if someone was to accidentally fall in your pool and drown, the expense that your homeowner's insurance probably won't cover because your pool wasn't fenced. That's one thing. But a wrongful death lawsuit would far exceed anything a homeowner's insurance policy would cover if it was to cover it. And I don't think it will if there's not a fence around it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it might not. And you know, the the stats on children with autism is they don't sound real. When you say the statistics about children with autism out loud, they sound made up because the the statistic is, and it's real, that a child who elopes, a child with autism who lopes, which is the word they use for gets out of the house and you know starts wandering around, um if they you know has a a 90% chance of um dying of a drowning. So if they if they die of something 90% of the time it's it's drowning.
SPEAKER_01Nine out of ten kids. Nine out of ten children who wander out of the house.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, drowning.
SPEAKER_01They expect that yeah, statistically drowned. That's horrible.
SPEAKER_02It's crazy. It doesn't sound real. No. But um, and so yeah, so when you put a pool fence up, you know, you've you've made your whole neighborhood safe, not just not just your own kids, like you say, but you know, every pool owner I think has a responsibility to you know protect this, you know, um, this death trap. You know, Carrie Morrison um has described pools and backyards as as lions in the backyard waiting to take our children away. And then if we imagine them like a lion and not a swimming pool, maybe we take it seriously. And you know, it it makes sense to put a put a cage around your lion, right? If you've got this this death trap in your backyard, you know, waiting to steal our kids, you know, you should protect it properly. Just like if you had a firearm, um, you know, even though pools kill more children than firearms, right? You have your uh freegonomics came out with a study in their book where they said that your your child is you know a hundred times more likely to be killed by a swimming pool than a firearm. And you know, we all know if you own a gun, you you keep it locked up, you know, you you make sure it's secure, you make sure the kids don't have access to it. Um, you do all the the proper things, you know, that you should do as a firearm owner. My dad had always had guns when we were growing up, and you know, and they were always kept in a safe, or you know, or you didn't know where they were, you know, he you did a good job of making sure that they were safe. And I think if you've got a pool, you know, especially considering knowing that the pools kill more kids than guns, that it's your responsibility to keep that thing safe and and make it not safe, but safer um for the children in your neighborhood.
SPEAKER_01And when you go through statistics sometimes, it sounds a lot like scare tactic. And it's it may it's it's really it's not, it's just stating the facts. And if the facts happen to be scary, it's because it's true. That's really where it's at. And just like anything, just like Eric said, when you put the fence around it, it is safer. In fact, I think the CDC says it's 88% safer. Is that the number? Children are 88% less likely to drown in a pool that has a fence around it. Right. That's huge when you consider the numbers that we're talking about. So we put the fence around it so we're not worried about our pool, just like we put the gun in this in the gun safe, so we're not worried about the gun, or whatever you do in your home, the little plastic things in the outlet, so they don't stick keys in them, or whatever it is you know the kids do. The same with the latch on the toilet. We you know why we put the latch on the toilet anyway, by the way. Do you know?
SPEAKER_02For convenience, you know what? There's keys in there.
SPEAKER_08So yeah, well, there's that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because the closer you get to the toilet, the more you have to go. And we thought it would be fun just to make it a little bit harder to open. No, we do that. They can drown in the toilet, exactly. If they get that lid open, they can flop in and drown. And it does happen. So if you're willing to latch the toilet, why wouldn't you put a fence around the bigger body of water?
SPEAKER_02Right. You know, if you if you would if you wouldn't own a car without seatbelts, why would you have a pool without a pool fence? Right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Well, wait for you to come back. Yeah, you're back. Um, but yeah, uh, you guys for a second, so I'll repeat it again to sound dramatic. Uh, yeah, if you wouldn't own a car without seat belts, you know, why wouldn't you have a pool? Why would you have a pool without a pool fence? And it or if you have, you know, if you wouldn't have a toilet without a toilet lock with toddlers at home, why wouldn't you have a pool fence? And and you know, the the logic is really similar too, actually. So you put the lock on the toilet, one for safety, right? Because you don't want your child to drown in the toilet. Um, also for for the convenience factor, right? You don't want the kid playing in the toilet bowl, right? It's it's not a good time for you. It's great for them, for you, not so much. Um you don't want your keys in the toilet bowl, right? Um, you don't want tonight's dinner to end up in the toilet bowl prematurely. Uh the dog. Or the dog, right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Whatever. So I even cut like the car, you put a car seat in your car for your children. There's there's things you do when you have kids. All right, let's say you don't have kids. There's still kids in your neighborhood, there's still kids that may visit your home, and we do need to take them into consideration also. I mean, one of the things we have in Florida is a lot of homes have screen enclosures, which are they meet the code requirements for an for a barrier, but not coming out the door in the house because you're right into that enclosed area. So, what do you do? Well, you should put a removable safety fence in between the home and the pool so that way somebody gets through the sliding glass door, they still don't end up in the pool area. So that that three-sided barrier when the house is part of it is is still a danger to the children that live in the home.
SPEAKER_08Did you see that video? I'm sorry to interrupt real quick, but did you see Rudy the did you see the Eric, either one of you? Have you guys seen the video? Oh, okay. Have you seen the video where the there's a baby? So it's a home security camera, and you can see the pool, and there's an adult in the pool, and then there's like a baby in the pool as well. I think one of them was in, I think the adult was in the spa. There was like a spillover, and the baby like got in the pool, and you see the dad run from off camera and jumps over the safety fence, clears it, like dives into the pool and saves the baby out of the pool. It was insane. Sorry, that's our fence.
SPEAKER_02That's our fence.
SPEAKER_08It awesome. Yeah, he cleared that shit in one jump. I swear to god, it was insane. Yeah, um, yeah, we and the fence was open, but he just jumped right the fuck over it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, he liked Superman's over the fence, yeah, yes, and and he had a shorter fence, you know. Typically, pool fences are 48 inches high, so he had a 40 fence. Um, but yeah, amazing, you know, and and that's because they I got chills, they didn't have a self-closing, self-watching gate, and they had the fence left open because it was full time, and uh and that's that's um but but the fact there was an adult in the pool.
SPEAKER_08I didn't mean to interrupt you, but yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, but to finish making that toilet point real quick. Um, so yeah, the toilet the toilet lock is to keep kids from from dying in the toilet, but also to make your life easier, right? To so you're not always trying to fish stuff out of the toilet bowl. The pool fence is the same thing, so you know the main purpose is to keep your kid from drowning. But the other kind of side effect of having it up is you're not playing goalie all the time when you're in your backyard, right? You're not running up every 12 minutes to grab, you know, little Andrea from running into the pool. Um, because you know, I'm sure it's three years old and she was doing that, right? Um actually I did.
SPEAKER_08There's a I have a story. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um so not only is your pool safer, but you can hang out in the backyard, you can be sitting in your patio with your iced tea, and the kids can be playing, running around the pool, and and you get to enjoy it without having to you know be getting up every 10 seconds to to save your kid from trying to to you know unalive themselves in the pool.
SPEAKER_01You know, so in in doing this, in in selling safety, you get to go home and sleep well because you did something good for somebody. That home that you just left, they're much, much, much, much less likely to have a drowning now because you installed that fencing around the pool. And how great of a feeling is that? I mean, I used to have it all the time, I loved it. I mean, you get hooked too because it's like, you know, I'm really doing something good here. I mean, yeah, you're making money, but you need to make money. That's how you can keep doing something good. It's a necessity. Just as much as the VGB compliance stuff is, just as much as anything else is. Uh, you know, the codes and the laws may be different, but you know different. You know better. Nobody is in people's backyards as much as the pool tech. Bottom line. Nobody knows more about how things occur in a backyard than the pool tech does when it comes to that pool. And I don't care who they are in this business, that's just a fact. Andrea, would you agree?
SPEAKER_08I definitely agree. I was not spacing out, I was actually just thinking of a question because I've been in multiple situations. Actually, I'm in one currently, where I've just treated a pool and uh it was a green swamp when I got there, and there was no drain. Once I got the pool clear, there's no drain cover at the bottom. And so I always feel like, you know, I I feel like I need to say something to the homeowner, but then I also feel like, and maybe this is just my anxiety. So my question is, is like, what would be something that you would say to someone like me who is like going to talk to this homeowner and basically like I'm afraid that they're gonna think that I'm trying to scare them and like bring all this like doom and gloom when I'm like, listen, you have a drain cover. I know that you have kids that are about to go in this pool, um, drain covers missing, or you know, selling them a fence. I'm just using my situation as an example. Like, I don't want to be the the person that's like, like I said, bringing all the doom and like sad info to everybody. And they don't take you seriously. I feel like a lot of times they just kind of brush you off as like, oh yeah, that'll never happen, or you're just kind of trying to scare me into something. And how do you get how do you get over that? How do you get around that? I'm not good at sales.
SPEAKER_02I would say what's gonna feel worse, the the the the possible feeling of rejection or feeling like a salesperson that you're you're getting from that interaction, right? Or feeling you might have if you don't say something and then their kids runs.
SPEAKER_08That's yeah, well, I mean, I said I did say something, I but I it's more of like getting over that anxiety of just feeling like you're I'm not being taken seriously, I guess.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I mean, you're being as helpful as you can, and it's up to them to do with that what they will, right? It's the same reason I give money to homeless people. You know, I'm doing my part, what they do with that for that is up to them, you know. You know, so I think uh, you know, you try and come from a I think intent matters. I think people can tell the difference between um people who have commission breath and are just trying to make the sale, and people who are legitimately trying to be uh uh be helpful and be a resource. And I think if you're approaching it with the right intention, people will pick up on it. So I I wouldn't worry too much about them uh brushing you off if uh you know you're coming at it from the right place, which which you are, you know.
SPEAKER_08All right, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there are options as well to fit in with people's aesthetic preference. Is that correct? Sure. So we have colors, we have things like that available. You do have salespeople that work or for the company directly already in how many states did you say? 30?
SPEAKER_02We have yeah, we have locations in 30 states, yeah.
SPEAKER_0130 states, so these are easily accessible. And do these folks typically cover that entire state?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, I think we're we have full coverage and okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That is fantastic. I think it's great. Tell me about the gate, because that's one thing that you don't, you know, you do see them, but you don't see a lot of them. A lot of people like to just unhook, take the pole out of the ground, and shift it to the side instead of going with the gate. I know there's a little bit of cost to the gate. I like the gate too because it is self closing, it is self latching. We'll let Eric take us through it a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, in fact. If you want, real quick, I'll uh I'll show you. But uh but yeah, so there's two options for the gate, right? You can have a um what I think you're used to seeing it, especially in Florida, which is what we call a manual opening. So it's not really a gate, it's you know where two pull-up sections latch together. There is a uh a two and a half inch wide, um, in our case, um snap safety latch um that connects all the sections together. And the two options are you have the manual opening where you can squeeze the two poles together, unhook that latch, slide the pole up out of the ground, fold the section back, and then put the the pole you just took out of the out of the hole into an extra hole that we call a layback hole. Um and that could be a gate section, your manual opening section, right?
SPEAKER_01Right, that's correct.
SPEAKER_02So the other option um is the self-closing, self-latching gate. And I if you want to let me share real quick, I will show you.
SPEAKER_01Will I lose the recording if I switch?
SPEAKER_02Oh, in that case, I'll just send you the link.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we'll do that, and I'll just stick it in.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01That works. If you can actually send me um footage, I can stick it in.
SPEAKER_02Oh, cool. But uh yeah, so the self-closing self-latching gate is like a door. And um you pull up on a knob, it's e-lockable. And you know, you open up like a door, and it's as the name implies, it's self-closing and self-latching. So when you let go of it, it closes behind you. Um so that was a logo. Um that's not what I meant to send you.
SPEAKER_08While he's looking for that, I blew someone's mind one time because they didn't know that that extra hole was for the was for the panel that you open. They were like, whoa, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Really? What did they think it was for?
SPEAKER_08It was a homeowner. I they just thought it was an extra one, and I was like, nope, you just you know stick it right in here, and they're like, Wow, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02I just thought somebody made a mistake.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So so yeah, Rudy, if you want to share a screen, okay, uh you can do that. Um but uh but yeah, and you don't even have to play the audio, just keep it muted. But uh you know, it it literally operates like a like a door, you know. Let me see if I can get in there. Andrea, I want to hear the story about you running into the pool.
SPEAKER_08Oh, so I was a little kid. I don't even remember how old I was. I was maybe, oh god, maybe five. And um my grandparents, this was in Illinois, and my grandparents had this big house and this big, big pool, and I had gone to see my dad for the weekend. I'd gone to stay with him, and we went over there, and I was so super excited. My dad and my uncle were somewhere in the house, I don't really remember, and I decided I was going to just change into my bathing suit. I like hid in the corner in the kitchen and I changed into my bathing suit really quick, and then I just ran out to the pool and I just jumped right in because I had swam before. So, like in my you know, little tiny child brain, I was like, Oh, this will be no problem. And I actually ended up jumping into the deep end and I struggled. Unfortunately, they saw me and um my uncle had to uh jump in and fish me out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's crazy. So, yeah, this is the gate, and he's he's talking about that it's uh you know, it's a key lockable, self-closing, self-flashing gate, that it's made out of inch and a quarter square stock aluminum. Yeah, you pull the knob up, you you open it, and you let go and it closes. It's it's real simple. Um, and because of how it works, you know, you you don't even have to open it all the way, the hinges will still keep it closed. Um, it is key lockable, so you can put a key in it and close it, and it'll keep it locked. Um, a lot of people don't even use the lock because it's you know the latch is so up so high that you know most of the time kids can't access it. Um, there's a little hinge slip covered at the bottom, so it makes it harder to climb. So the hinges don't become a foothold for a child to climb over it. And and yeah, you know, more and more the self-closing, self-latching gates are being used as kind of a um not a mandatory, but a um a more common part of the pool fence. You know, I know a lot of our lifesavers um almost won't even sell a pool fence without a gate. You know, they think it it should be, you know, a fence should have a gate and they they include it with it almost every time.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna I was gonna ask if that was a Magna latch on there, but I saw in the label are are the hinges theirs also?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're mag yeah, they're um magna latches and the true clothes hinges by by DD Technologies.
SPEAKER_08Okay, which is I just had one of those today on a pool that I service. So they they're really great. I like the gates a lot.
SPEAKER_01What you'll see on most commercial pools. It's what you'll see on most commercial pools, and even noting the height that that latch was installed, did you notice that it went up beyond the top of the fence, right? Fence requirements 48 inches. The latch height should be 54 inches. So, yeah, so it meets the same requirements that we use on all of our public pools throughout the entire country.
SPEAKER_02And and that's actually how you can tell the difference between a a strong self-closing, self-latching pool fence gate and a weak one is the weaker gates need the magna latch as part of the gate construction. So you'll see the knob is about the same height, or maybe just a little bit above the top of the fence, where a strong gate doesn't need the latch. It can up it can exist without it. So because we have a stronger gate, we can put the latch way up high, you know, six inches above the top of the fence, um, and it still still works fine. So if you're shopping for a pool fence um and you realize that the the gate latch doesn't go up higher than the fence, um, that's that's kind of a red flag that the the fence you're looking at isn't isn't as high of a quality.
SPEAKER_01And that's the Consumer Product Safety Commission's recommendation, which was originally created for residential pools, but was adopted by, I believe, every health department in the country that has a pool code for public pools. And one of the things we're always talking about, even in service, why would you lower the bar in service for your residential customers? It doesn't make you wouldn't, correct? Well, we don't want to do that here either.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, my brother still still uh helps run the business with me. My my parents started it in the late 80s, and uh, you know, my my dad finally retired in 2003, and I took it over at 21 years old, but we're still still a family company, you know, still still me and my brother, and uh, you know, a lot of the folks in the office here are people I've known since childhood. Um, it's it's a very cool thing that we're that's awesome. We get to still be a you know, we feel like a small family company, even though we're obviously quite a bit bigger than we were than when my parents started it in the garage back in back in '87.
SPEAKER_01So if a pool pro a service company or a builder or even a pool retailer, uh our listeners, if one of our listeners wants to get a hold of you so that they can start to carry this line, or maybe even start a franchise, what's the best way for them to get a hold of you, Eric?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I would go to poolfense.com and there's a contact us form there. But um, you know, I think if you're a pool guy, I think there's a or a pool lady, or if you're a pool person, I think there's a few a few different ways to to go about adding a pool fence to what you do. And and I think I think it's a good idea for them. You know, my brother cleaned pools for a while. Uh, he had a pool service business, and you know, he said, while he he he loved cleaning pools, you know, when he compared it to installing pool fences, you know, you clean a pool and he knew that in a day or two it's gonna have leaves in it again, it was gonna be out of alignment again, and all the work he did, you know, kind of you know would be gone by the time he came back in a week. And that's great because you have job security and you get to come do it all over again. But when you put a pool fence up, you're done. And you collect your money and you've done a good thing, you get to look at it, you get to take a picture of it, and then you walk away, and hopefully you never come back again. Um, and and he thought that was a beautiful thing. So he you know, he he got a lot of satisfaction out of installing pool fences that he he did not get from cleaning pools. Um, but I think there's two ways to go about it. You can either um if you want to get right into it right away and you know, kind of you know, do it real part-time and just add it as a side thing. Um, if you go to pool fencediy.com, you know, that's our do-it-yourself fence that we sell for homeowners to put in on their own. And if you reach out to us, we have a discount for for pool service companies for pool builders. So, you know, we'll give you uh like a wholesale coupon and you can buy fence there. Um, and it's meant for homeowners to put in. So that means you can too. And that's a great way to get pool fence um, you know, that you can carry and install or recommend to people uh without having to do a lot of um you know extra stuff. Now that if you go that route, you're just buying fence and putting it in, and we're not we're not doing nothing for you. Um, you know, you're just buying your fence from us, uh, which is which is fine, right? We're we're happy to do that. Um the other way to go about it is to be a franchise, and that's obviously much more involved, but you know, you get a lot more out of it. There's you know, it's a little more expensive. Now you're starting a whole business. And you know, we've we've had you know several uh pool service companies over the years, you know, start up lifesaver pool fence businesses and and have them take off and do really well. Um, some, in fact, I know of a couple in California who you know started off as pool service companies adding on pool fence and then eventually stopped doing their service completely. They did they figured they decided the pool fence was uh a better, more profitable business, and they they stopped cleaning pools. Um, so either way, pool fence.com is a great way to get hold of us. If you're curious about uh the franchise side of it, you can go to lifesaverfranchising.com. That's the website for our franchise opportunity, and and find me on Facebook. Um, my name is Eric Lupton. You you message me on Facebook, I will be more than happy to uh to talk to you, like I did Andrea. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and go actually if you follow Eric, go check out the the blog that he posts. What is it? You post post it weekly. It's it's it's I love it. I I I read it when I you know when I see it and stuff. It's pretty inspiring and hilarious at the same time. You do a good job.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, the the blog is uh crippled CEO.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's a crippled COVID.
SPEAKER_01If you can get Andrea to read, you're doing way better than I am. Hey, she has a she has a she has a few books of mine that she's yet to open the cover on for five six years now, right?
SPEAKER_08Oh my goodness. Put it on my phone and then I will absolutely read it.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you don't like reading, there's also a crippled CEO YouTube channel. You can listen to me talk it to you.
SPEAKER_08I'll check that out for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um and you're on TikTok, I'll go follow you on TikTok. If you can probably already am.
SPEAKER_01Make her a coloring book. That might be best of all.
SPEAKER_08Ooh, put swear words in it.
SPEAKER_01I'll make a crippled CEO color book. There you go. Everybody, Eric Lupton, thank you so much. Lifesaver pool fence. Andrea, take us out of here.
SPEAKER_08Well, um, you know, my usual thing. Oh, thanks, Eric, for being on the show. Also, it's great to talk to you. Um, but uh yeah, so follow our other shows, follow us. Um like us. I don't know if the review thing, yeah. Well, I mean, it still counts. So yeah, go do that. And I don't know, have a have a great day. What's your problem?
SPEAKER_01Everybody, be good, be safe.
